GhostOrchid

Been listening to the 4-track demo (1981) and I wonder..

Recommended Posts

At what point did she decide not to record and release Stay and Don't You Know for the 1st album? These are great, and would fit perfectly!

Is it because she fell out with Stephen Bray over producing the album and couldn't release anything he co-wrote? She mashed them up for Like a Virgin, but why not in 1983..

*tracks found on Stephen Bray's Pre-Madonna, 1996 (6, 7, 9, 8 in that order as they appear on the original cassette tape, according to Bray)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think those songs were even considered to be used at the time.  Let's remember, Warners was pushing their people on her when working on her first album.  Also, I don't see them fitting "perfectly" on the first album especially "Stay".

A revamped version of "Stay" did get used on "Like A Virgin" though.

12 minutes ago, ARTforFREEDOM said:

where can I hear this?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Liam said:

I don't think those songs were even considered to be used at the time.  Let's remember, Warners was pushing their people on her when working on her first album.  Also, I don't see them fitting "perfectly" on the first album especially "Stay".

A revamped version of "Stay" did get used on "Like A Virgin" though.

 

 

Well if you ask me they are very much similar to Think of Me. Got more of a funky vibe, but with Reggy Lucas' production or Jellybean remixes they would've been great as part of the album.

Warners were pushing their own people for production, not writing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, it wasn't something even considered.  By the time, she was shopping around to get an album deal with Warners, she was carrying around a three track set of "Everybody", "Burning Up" and "Ain't No Big Deal".   Seymore Stein signed her for a two 12 inch record deal at first based on "Everybody".   Reggie Lucas ended up being a huge influence in the music direction of the first album.  So much, that Madonna was still not happy with some of the mixes that she brought in her boyfriend Jellybean Benitiz to remix them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all it was 4-track demo. A1 Ain't no big Deal, A2 Everybody, B1 Don't You Know, B2 Stay. NO Burning Up. I also thought it was there, but it wasn't. Do some reaserch.

Second of all, yes she wasn't happy with the final Reggie Lucas mixes but the 3 songs that got remixed by Jellybean were done BEFORE the album was released, and she included those re-mixes on the album, as you can see in the liner notes (Lucky Star, Burning Up and Physical Attraction)

Third, I'm glad that you know for a FACT that "it wasn't something even considered"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, GhostOrchid said:

First of all it was 4-track demo. A1 Ain't no big Deal, A2 Everybody, B1 Don't You Know, B2 Stay. NO Burning Up. I also thought it was there, but it wasn't. Do some reaserch.

Second of all, yes she wasn't happy with the final Reggie Lucas mixes but the 3 songs that got remixed by Jellybean were done BEFORE the album was released, and she included those re-mixes on the album, as you can see in the liner notes (Lucky Star, Burning Up and Physical Attraction)

Third, I'm glad that you know for a FACT that "it wasn't something even considered"

No, you do YOUR research. First off, Madonna carried various demo tapes throughout the early 80's, but in the time references I am referring to when she was shopping for an album deal with eventually Warners:

She carried rough tapes of these three songs, "Everybody", "Ain't No Big Deal" and "Burning Up".   This has always been well documented.  She was frequenting Danceteria nightclub in New York. She met and convinced  DJ Mark Kamins to play "Everybody".  After the song was positively received at the club, Kamins helped Madonna get a record deal, on the understanding that he would get to produce the single   He took her to his boss Chris Blackwell, who owned Island Records, but Blackwell refused to sign Madonna so they approached Sire Records, Michael Rosenblatt, and offered Madonna $5,000 in advance, plus $10,000 in royalties, for each song she wrote.

Madonna was ultimately signed for two 12" Singles  by the President of Sire, Seymore Stein who was impressed by her singing,after listening to "Everybody" at a hospital in Lenox Hill where he was admitted.  Eventually, Madonna opted to not to work with Kamins, nor Stephen Bray on the first album.

Also, I never said JellyBean didn't remix those songs.  I simply said, even when the album was being finished, she wasn't still happy with the mixes, so she brought him in to remix them.

Now if you want to make this a pissing contest, I'll stop here.  The fact is; by the time she was up for an album deal, she wasn't even shopping around "Don't You Know" and "Stay".   Her first album is well documented, so if you want to argue about them being "considered" when you have no proof, then so be it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Liam said:

No, you do YOUR research. First off, Madonna carried various demo tapes throughout the early 80's, but in the time references I am referring to when she was shopping for an album deal with eventually Warners:

She carried rough tapes of these three songs, "Everybody", "Ain't No Big Deal" and "Burning Up".  She was frequenting Danceteria nightclub in New York. She met and convinced  DJ Mark Kamins to play "Everybody".  After the song was positively received at the club, Kamins helped Madonna get a record deal, on the understanding that he would get to produce the single   He took her to his boss Chris Blackwell, who owned Island Records, but Blackwell refused to sign Madonna so they approached Sire Records, Michael Rosenblatt, and offered Madonna $5,000 in advance, plus $10,000 in royalties, for each song she wrote.

Madonna was ultimately signed for two 12" Singles  by the President of Sire, Seymore Stein who was impressed by her singing,after listening to "Everybody" at a hospital in Lenox Hill where he was admitted.  Eventually, Madonna opted to not to work with Kamins, nor Stephen Bray on the first album.

Also, I never said JellyBean didn't remix those songs.  I simply said, even when the album was being finished, she wasn't still happy with the mixes, so she brought him in to remix them.

Now if you want to make this a pissing contest, I'll stop here.  The fact is; by the time she was up for an album deal, "Don't You Know" and "Stay" were not considered.  Her first album is well documented, so if you want to argue about them being "considered" when you have no proof, then so be it.  

Facts facts facts just dry facts, you don't have to copy the Wikipedia.

Whatever dude. Get the Pre-Madonna album and read what Stephen Bray said about which 4 songs got her the Sire deal with Seymore Stein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the Pre-Madonna album! Just because Bray thinks it happened one way, doesn't mean it did!  It's been well documented for years, that Seymore Stein signed her solely based on "Everybody" which was from a three track demo presented to him which included "Everybody", "Ain't No Big Deal" and "Burning Up".  These three songs were all being considered to be part of her first album.  Furthermore, "Ain't No Big Deal" was considered to be the b-side to "Everybody".  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Liam said:

I have the Pre-Madonna album! Just because Bray thinks it happened one way, doesn't mean it did!  It's been well documented for years, that Seymore Stein signed her soley based on "Everybody" which was from a three track demo presented to him which included "Everybody", "Ain't No Big Deal" and "Burning Up".  These three songs were all being considered to be part of her first album.  Furthermore, "Ain't No Big Deal" was considered to be the b-side to "Everybody".  

Yes it's been well documented for years. on Wikipedia. I can edit the Wikipedia right now if I wanted to. I have no reason to doubt what Bray explicitly said and wrote on the liner notes of the album. And besides even way before the album I knew that "Stay" was on that tape, I just thought it was Burning Up instead of Don't You Know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you read the interview with Michael Rosenblatt you can see that Stein wanted to sign her as soon as he heard A1 of that tape which was Ain't No Big Deal. Not "solely based on Everybody". It was even considered as the first single for a short period of time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, GhostOrchid said:

Yes it's been well documented for years. on Wikipedia. I can edit the Wikipedia right now if I wanted to. I have no reason to doubt what Bray explicitly said and wrote on the liner notes of the album. And besides even way before the album I knew that "Stay" was on that tape, I just thought it was Burning Up instead of Don't You Know.

Look buddy, I've been a fan since the early days.  We didn't have Wikipedia then.  Over the years, it's been well documented that Stein was presented a three track demo.  If something more was presented to Sire that hasn't been well documented. The fact is; Seymore Stein was sold on Madonna based on her song "Everybody".  In fact, in his own words over the years, he said he didn't think she was particularly a good singer and it was her presence and determination that helped seal the deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Liam said:

Look buddy, I've been a fan since the early days.  We didn't have Wikipedia then.  Over the years, it's been well documented that Stein was presented a three track demo.  If something more was presented to them that hasn't been well documented. The fact is; Seymore Stein was sold on Madonna based on her song "Everybody". 

What's your source? I gave you all my sources

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're re-writing history, my man, based on Andrew Mortin's unathorized biography of Madonna.  My source... Seymour Stein and me being her fan since the early days.  Also, Google some interviews he did speaking of Madonna.  The 4 track demo you mentioned did exist, but by the time it got to Seymour, it was three tracks "Everybody", "Ain't No Big Deal" and "Burning Up".  There was a lot of negotiation going on between Madonna and Sires throughout '82, regarding which songs they wanted to release to whom was going to help her produce her first album.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seymour Stein biography is out soon, let's hope it clears everything!

There is so much chaos in the beginning of the story because everyone recalls it differently and there is also some mythology behind this. It's impossible to think they wanted Ain't to big deal as a first single, yet that was the original plan.

Is it all worth fighting for? Please don't fight! :hug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Enrico said:

Seymour Stein biography is out soon, let's hope it clears everything!

There is so much chaos in the beginning of the story because everyone recalls it differently and there is also some mythology behind this. It's impossible to think they wanted Ain't to big deal as a first single, yet that was the original plan.

Is it all worth fighting for? Please don't fight! :hug:

I agree. Although when you listen to that Everybody demo, it really isn't as good as the album version. Ain't No Big Deal would seem a better choice on the first listen. Sooo glad they didn't :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, bstranger said:

I love both songs as well the early Madonna's stuff. I heard Stephen Bray would release a vol 2 CD, but madonna didn't allow at that time. 

She didn't allow the first one either, but he didn't care, he had the rights.

It was his revenge for her re-mixing all of his songs with Shep Pettibone and releasing those versions as singles. Apparently Keep It Together was the last drop and they never spoke since.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked the rawness of Everybody, that was apparently Madonna's biggest gripe with Lucas' production. The songs lost the raw edge. She complained then that it was too polished. 

Rolling Stone did a 30th Anniversary of the album's production. Read here, has most of the main players talking in it.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/how-madonna-became-madonna-an-oral-history-20130729

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, me1981 said:

I liked the rawness of Everybody, that was apparently Madonna's biggest gripe with Lucas' production. The songs lost the raw edge. She complained then that it was too polished. 

Rolling Stone did a 30th Anniversary of the album's production. Read here, has most of the main players talking in it.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/how-madonna-became-madonna-an-oral-history-20130729

Read that one before, great article! I love when they do those retrospective anniversary things, I wish they would make a proper documentary on every album she did.

Although I found from multiple sources that she was contracted for two 12'', perhaps Seymore meant 3 songs, not 3 singles (Everybody, Burning Up, Physical Attraction released on 2 singles). But like someone mentioned in this thread earlier, it was long time ago and everybody remembers it differently.

One one other interesting thing I found, although everybody knows that Reggie Lucas brought Physical Attraction to the table, Stephen Bray says he clearly remembers Madonna writing it on her own. And he thinks that probably must be some sort of deal between them, like the 2 of them had a deal for Everybody and Ain't No Big Deal (officially, Madonna wrote Everybody and Bray wrote Ain't No Big Deal, but in reality they co-wrote both tracks). I guess they used to do those kind of trades back in the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.