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The Fans Problem With Madonna


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EDIT: A lot of these posts are about "Ageist this Ageist that" focus less on what ageism is, focus on how the music changed. Like A Prayer all the way through Confessions were kind of serious albums. They had their fun but they also had their core message. A strong center and a sense of identity. Hard Candy and MDNA lack that and Rebel Heart is starting to find it. Talk about the music not ageism.

 

After 3 polarizing Albums from M I believe the problem is much more clear.

Look at her works starting at "Madonna"

We meet her as the Holiday singer, the girl who wants everyone to dance and sing. She sings about relateable simple topics very general easily digested pop. She ruffles some feathers with Like A Virgin and is starting to really craft herself as an artist. But still, it's easy to digest and relate to it's hardly the iconoclast of Erotica or Like A Prayer.

True Blue rolls out and she's emerging, Papa Don't Preach. The visuals are striking the message is honest and CLEAR, she is a grown woman and does not want to be the Like A Virgin singer forever. She's still fun but she's become Stronger, and more fierce. Like a Prayer came in and with this album we met Motherhood as an idea, her mother and a failed marriage, deeply personal things.

Erotica, Bedtime Stories, Ray of Light, Music, American Life, Confessions.

All very strong albums about her womanhood and we see hardly see any notion of Who That Girl was.

2008 comes and we meet the new girl. Hard Candy, shocked. It's so young at heart, it's become unfamiliar. 2011 we meet MDNA and she's still... Borderline of Desperately Seeking 20s.

Rebel Heart, we get an asthmatic's breath of fresh air, a wheeze of maturity.

No, this is not a MADONNA BE OLD ALREADY thread.

She spent almost 20+ years being proud and unapologetic of her maturity, of her age. Suddenly she seems to be grasping at unfamiliar straws.

To finish this up.

We got used to this maternal figure then she's trying to pull out the IM NOT OLD shtick. She was proud, honest and fearless. Then this switch happened, do you agree?

 

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I agree to a point. Yes Madonna's "I'm 50-something trying to act like I'm in my 20s and still hip with the young kids" schtick has gotten quite tiresome to me,but to say that she's lost her fearlessness and honesty is pretty ridiculous. She hasn't lost that quality and that's what makes her Madonna.

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Was never a problem for me. Hard Candy is still one of my favorite M albums and to me that was the "breath of fresh air" after the dark masterpiece American Life and the mostly gloomy and preachy Confessions. She truly went back to her roots for the first time in her career and I never took offense in that. I know a lot of fans didn´t like that direction but I loved it. Many artists do that when they reach a certain point in their career and get praised by their fans for it but Madonna fans usually hold it against her which I personally never really understood. So as she said on her first single: Dance and sing, get up and do your thing ! :wink:
Also I think she will do something different in the future too which she already showed on Rebel Heart, on the tour and Tears Of A Clown.
 

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I can see how people might think this, but I really think its coincidence. Madonna is and always has been influenced by the sounds of the day. The only reason Hard Candy and MDNA came when they did is because thats what the sound was at the time. Madonna is just being the ever adaptable person she's always been, everybody else is talking about her age. Her themes aren't froth even though the sound might be youthful. 

 

If she was fighting her own age she wouldn't wear a bunch of the stuff she wears. 2015 grammys... 2013 Grammys... The flapper section of the Rebel Heart Tour... no judgment but she looked her age in these moments and if she was really afraid of showing age she wouldn't have dared wore these things. 

 

if anything has changed over the years I think it may be who she wants to be remembered as... She used to want to be a Michael Jackson or an Elvis... now I think she wants to be a Ghandi or a Princess Diana or a Martin Luther... she said it herself. 

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I can see how people might think this, but I really think its coincidence. Madonna is and always has been influenced by the sounds of the day. The only reason Hard Candy and MDNA came when they did is because thats what the sound was at the time. Madonna is just being the ever adaptable person she's always been, everybody else is talking about her age. Her themes aren't froth even though the sound might be youthful. 

 

yes but the albums before it, didnt really sound like everything else at the time. 

 

what i miss, not only from her, is classic pop music. Theres flashes of it on Rebel Heart. Music these days is really try hard.

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With each new Madonna project, I don't set any expectations on how she should sound or look. I just look forward to the new album with a curious & open mind. So chances are I don't get disappointed regardless of the new music direction & image. No, I'm not one to love everything she puts out just because she's Madonna. Before any "politically correct" fan jumps in to say we must be critical, I want to say that there's of course at least a track or two that I might not be fond of. I just prefer to focus on what I like & enjoy.

 

So I'm inclined to believe that the fan problems with Madonna actually lie with them. Some fans feel entitled cos' they think they have spent so much $$$ on Madonna. They have these expectations on each new music project: her sound on the new album; her co-producers, her remixers, her single choices, her album artwork, etc. Also she should not come across as chasing the trend. Instead she should be starting one. Then there are those who want another Like a Prayer album or Ray of Light album or COADF album.

 

Surprisingly, there are fans who think that she ought to act her age. She ought to write mature lyrics & produce more mature songs. Otherwise, they feel she is trying way too hard to act years younger than her age & that makes those fans uncomfortable. But the thing is that is the very ageism that Madonna battles against.

 

M nails it @ Rolling Stone:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/madonna-fights-back-inside-rolling-stones-new-issue-20150225

"...But my age- anybody and everybody would say something degrading to me. And I always think to myself, why is that accepted? What’s the difference between that and racism, or any discrimination? They’re judging me by my age. I don’t understand. I’m trying to get my head around it. Because women, generally, when they reach a certain age, have accepted that they’re not allowed to behave a certain way.â€

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Music was definitely inspired by Daft Punk coming on the scene. Ray of Light was definitely a product of late 90s electronica mixed with down tempo... Think Dido, Olive, Sneaker Pimps. Bedtime Stories is definitely a product of its time. Babyface, TLC, and there ballads of Whitney and Celine helped inspire this era. Hung Up Oxford by Eric Prydz Call on Me. I could go on for days...

 

 

yes but the albums before it, didnt really sound like everything else at the time. 

 

what i miss, not only from her, is classic pop music. Theres flashes of it on Rebel Heart. Music these days is really try hard.

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Music was definitely inspired by Daft Punk coming on the scene. Ray of Light was definitely a product of late 90s electronica mixed with down tempo... Think Dido, Olive, Sneaker Pimps. Bedtime Stories is definitely a product of its time. Babyface, TLC, and there ballads of Whitney and Celine helped inspire this era. Hung Up Oxford by Eric Prydz Call on Me. I could go on for days...

 

 

 

I agree with Bedtime Stories. it was the Rebel Heart / HC of its time. 

 

The others had influences of what was going on at the time obviously, she wasn't inventing new genres, but it wasn't exactly like the most successful stuff of the time. Otherwise Ray Of Light would've been bubblegum pop  :lol:

 

Look at MDNA, it's already aged to hell imo.

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You know the "50 something year old woman trying to act like the 20 something year old woman" kinda gets on my nerves. It suggests that all 20 something year old women act the same. Madonna is acting like Madonna. I connect with Madonna on a very deep level. She promotes unity and acceptence on a very deep level and I love that because it's how I feel. I also share a lot of her personality traits but I was me in my twenties. Madonna has always been rebellious. Women's personalities do not cease to exist when they hit their fifties.

 

Everything a woman does after 50 is attributed to her age. Maybe they do accept or know that women in their twenties have different personalities and having different personalities is only reserved for women in their twenties. Maybe Madonna going against the criteria society has for women over 50 is her behaiving like a woman in her twenties? How dare she be herself and express her feelings freely. That's for women in their twenties. Like wearing make up, getting spa procedures done, wearing sexy clothes...it's the observer who rejects the existence of a woman's own unique personality not the woman. If she accepts society's role given to her she will behaive herself and repress who she truly is.

 

Madonna and I are not the same person and I criticise her sometimes but I never want her to not express what she truly is feeling. After the divorce from a man she put COMPLETE trust in, fans recycling her because she was getting older, peers and people she looked up to criticising her sometimes viciously...she had a right to be angry or to want to escape. It's one thing to be hurt by people you don't know or who you have a fundamental disagreement with, like the old days...in the last ten years she has been hurt by people she loved, loves, people who she thought loved her, people she has tremendous respect for. She's human. That's when attacks really hurt. I think she wanted to escape with Hard Candy, deal with anger on MDNA and was more philisophical on Rebel Heart. Madonna is Madonna no matter what age she is and no matter what observers say. If the observer is clinging to the notion that only twenty something women are free to be themselves then that is their problem.

 

I prefer to talk about a person's experiences and feelings as to what direction they choose artistically rather than their age. Not all of us think about our ages as much as some do. I'm me no matter how old I get and experiences and emotions are mostly what guides my choices. Not my birthdate.

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I agree with Bedtime Stories. it was the Rebel Heart / HC of its time. 

 

The others had influences of what was going on at the time obviously, she wasn't inventing new genres, but it wasn't exactly like the most successful stuff of the time. Otherwise Ray Of Light would've been bubblegum pop  :lol:

 

Look at MDNA, it's already aged to hell imo.

 

She did use one of the songwriters of one of the biggest albums of the 1990s, Falling Into You, who also wrote many songs for Belinda Carlisle, namely Rick Nowels. Going back to Patrick Leonard was the same as going back to William Orbit on MDNA. Not to mention at first she wanted Nellee Hooper to produce the album and also wanted to record with Robert Miles. Orbit was basically a remixer she's known for several years by then and only after all those options fell out, she turned to him.

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Perhaps it has something to do with the her message too. She doesn't express herself in a particularly mature or intelligent way. When she speaks on ageism, it isn't from a universal female perspective. She speaks for herself. I can admire that as much as I can find it repellent. Madonna has had a million and one incarnations over the years, but while I am certain the version of her we see today is closest to the truth, it is also the one that I find least interesting and engaging as a career-long fan. Social media has been the absolute worst in my opinion. Essentially she depicts herself as a super privileged white liberal with adopted kids who spends her life in the Hamptons doing nothing. I'm sure that's cute and interesting to some people, but not that many, and I personally find it grotesque at times. Her sense of style has become absolutely unrelatable too, and it borders on the ridiculousness of Edina Monsoon.I know some will crucify anyone for criticizing her, but if you're going to bring up problematic fandom, I think it's relevant to point out that part of the problem is simply that she doesn't really do anything of any interest. Madonna has truly become quite boring. It was often stated that Madonna would be "over" when there truly was a collective yawn in response to her career choices. While that has yet to manifest itself entirely, it would definitely appear that most people find Madonna uninteresting at this time. 

 

As fans of a certain age, many have also been disappointed that we haven't been able to find a voice in Madonna that reflects the types of emotional experiences one goes through in middle age. Instead we have been given the example of obsessive-compulsive cosmetic enhancements to stay "youthful" and the idea that irreverence has no age limit. That isn't very helpful or inspiring to me. I'm just one fan, but I can only imagine others feel the same. 

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She did use one of the songwriters of one of the biggest albums of the 1990s, Falling Into You, who also wrote many songs for Belinda Carlisle, namely Rick Nowels. Going back to Patrick Leonard was the same as going back to William Orbit on MDNA. Not to mention at first she wanted Nellee Hooper to produce the album and also wanted to record with Robert Miles. Orbit was basically a remixer she's known for several years by then and only after all those options fell out, she turned to him.

 

I'm not sure what your point is. ROL is nothing at all like MDNA. Orbit's songs are the best on it though.

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@@Alibaba

 

Her aging the way she wants to is her personal choice. We don't have to agree with her nor relate to it. But at least we can agree in that people should be able to do whatever they want at any age as long as they aren't hurting others which is her real anti-ageism message, we don't have to follow her path, but we can agree with her in principle.

 

And I'd say she does express things that relate to this time in her life, like nostalgia and her place in a changing world. I think those are relatable things. 

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@@Alibaba

 

Her aging the way she wants to is her personal choice. We don't have to agree with her nor relate to it. But at least we can agree in that people should be able to do whatever they want at any age as long as they aren't hurting others which is her real anti-ageism message, we don't have to follow her path, but we can agree with her in principle.

 

And I'd say she does express things that relate to this time in her life, like nostalgia and her place in a changing world. I think those are relatable things. 

 

As much as I agree with her on the ageism thing, I have to say that she is sometimes contradicting herself with her actions.

 

She says she is battling with ageism, but she is terribly afraid of looking old and desperately wants to be cool and hip with the kids, which only adds up to the problem. Being or looking old is not a bad thing, and a person claiming to be against ageism should not be ageist herself/himself. The criticism of not acting their age is not uttered against Tina Turner and Jane Fonda for example, and that's the only reason in my opinion.

 

For the music, I really don't think she likes making garbage such as "MDNA" or 'Bitch I'm Madonna', and this makes her look more desperate for staying young. It's not the sound, but the songs themselves. No one dragged her for 'Hung Up', because it was a masterpiece. She can do dance music as much as she wants, but she should feel what she sings. Madonna is not dumb, she knows what good music is and she knows 'Give Me All Your Luvin'' and that 'Bitch' shit are not really good songs. Besides, she is alienating her real fanbase as well.

 

I don't care about her actions or words, I still feel and enjoy her when I watch her interviews. As long as she makes good music, nothing she does will bore me.

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She says she is battling with ageism, but she is terribly afraid of looking old

I don´t think so. If she would be terribly afraid of looking old she wouldn´t post videos like this for example for everyone to see on her Instagram. She always shows many sides of herself.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTYRXJ8A85Z/

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 'Give Me All Your Luvin'' and that 'Bitch' shit are not really good songs. Besides, she is alienating her real fanbase as well.

Again, with this you are implying that everyone who likes these songs are not her "real" fanbase. So only people who think these songs are shit are her "real" fans ?!

Sorry but this is... smh

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As much as I agree with her on the ageism thing, I have to say that she is sometimes contradicting herself with her actions.

 

She says she is battling with ageism, but she is terribly afraid of looking old and desperately wants to be cool and hip with the kids, which only adds up to the problem. Being or looking old is not a bad thing, and a person claiming to be against ageism should not be ageist herself/himself. The criticism of not acting their age is not uttered against Tina Turner and Jane Fonda for example, and that's the only reason in my opinion.

 

For the music, I really don't think she likes making garbage such as "MDNA" or 'Bitch I'm Madonna', and this makes her look more desperate for staying young. It's not the sound, but the songs themselves. No one dragged her for 'Hung Up', because it was a masterpiece. She can do dance music as much as she wants, but she should feel what she sings. Madonna is not dumb, she knows what good music is and she knows 'Give Me All Your Luvin'' and that 'Bitch' shit are not really good songs. Besides, she is alienating her real fanbase as well.

 

I don't care about her actions or words, I still feel and enjoy her when I watch her interviews. As long as she makes good music, nothing she does will bore me.

 

 

As I said, I don't think that's what she means with ageism. She wants to live and do whatever she wants at any age. That's her message, so she's not contradicting herself.

 

And I think she definitely likes making fun music, she always has. She has a great sense of humor and Bitch I'm Madonna is her type of thing. She likes to have fun and being silly.

 

And she definitely got a lot of shit for Hung Up. But yeah, it was a better song, it was a great melody plain and simple, so pop fans ate it up, not so much with some of her recent "fun" singles.

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Again, with this you are implying that everyone who likes these songs are not her "real" fanbase. So only people who think these songs are shit are her "real" fans ?!

Sorry but this is... smh

I really suggest you improve your reading skills. I did not say such things.

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