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Madonna's Lesbian Love Letter


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6 hours ago, NowRadiate said:

buying these items although they were never meant to be public. don't know what to think about that.

#judgemental

Committing adultery with a pregnant woman is far worse. Your comparison is weak.  

You read the contents of this letter so you weren't concerned enough for her privacy then nor when listening to any leaked demo over the years. 

#yourpointis?

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It is all moral relatvisim. For me I would listen to an unreleased demo from 30 years ago but I did not listen to the RH demos for a number of reasons. I never judged anyone who did, just felt badly for her and more wanting to wait to hear what she wanted us to hear. I actually still have not listened to any of them as I still feel badly about the leak.

This letter, or her garbage just isn't interesting to me, outside of hearing it exists, reading any of it just doesn't interest me, now getting my hands on her daily planners and seeing when she shot certain photoshoots, started working on certain productions and stuff, I would be very tempted to get my hands on, though I also feel badly as there would be non-work/personal stuff in there.

The fact is we all draw our boundaries, and we can all be hypocrites at times about this sort of stuff.

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On 26.6.2018 at 5:04 AM, Eyzonme said:

Committing adultery with a pregnant woman is far worse. Your comparison is weak.  

You read the contents of this letter so you weren't concerned enough for her privacy then nor when listening to any leaked demo over the years. 

#yourpointis?

i couldn't care less about demos.

buying these items, asking for them, creating a demand - what does that say about you, about society?

and then the judgement on top of it.

my point is: being nosey with private stuff is not really "better" in any way.

(also, how do you compare listening to demos with judging someone over their desire or hitting on somebody. beyond me.)

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I agree; anyone spending $4K on private letters of a celebrity that weren't meant for the public has no business lecturing people or trying to compare it to someone listening to demos/viewing photo outtakes.  We all agree none of it should surface, but the majority of us here who commented did not purchase or distribute/leaks these in the first place.  Nor would we go out of our way and spend a thousands on private items (not meant for public eyes) from a celebrity. 

 

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1 hour ago, NowRadiate said:

i couldn't care less about demos

Yet a simple search shows you have commented on leaked demos and the desire to hear certain unleaked songs. 

I take particular issue with you for being unnecessarily rude to me and trying to cause an argument.

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The letter has to do with private life and emotions, feelings.

A demo is something that aims to become public, although still unfinished, and has to do with artistic life.

I listened to the RH demos and found the creative process very interesting, but this does not mean I am happy for the leaks or encouraged them. Other leaks made me happy, I won't deny it. But of course the fact that we are interested in all the aspects or M's creativity and art is very different than violating her privacy. Did I take a picture in front of her house? Yes. Am I stalking her? No.

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So almost all agree that we have read this letter and don't consider it a violation of her privacy because we did not purchase or exchange something for it? Your issue is only when a transaction of some sort were to take place?

If you could acquire this letter for say $1 you wouldn't buy it or appreciate it more over a simple sign album cover? 

Do you think the Photoshop outtakes were not personal enough to not release originally, especially versions not photoshopped?

Demos not personal enough that M may have had personal reasons not to release them? 

Don't gang up when we all contribute to the demand of leaks of any sort of medium. 

 

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1 hour ago, Enrico said:

The letter has to do with private life and emotions, feelings.

A demo is something that aims to become public, although still unfinished, and has to do with artistic life.

I listened to the RH demos and found the creative process very interesting, but this does not mean I am happy for the leaks or encouraged them. Other leaks made me happy, I won't deny it. But of course the fact that we are interested in all the aspects or M's creativity and art is very different than violating her privacy. Did I take a picture in front of her house? Yes. Am I stalking her? No.

Very well put!

There's a huge difference between fans listening to leaked demos or looking at outtakes versus those who actually buy private items that weren't meant for the public.  The demos and outttakes were for projects that were for public projects.  Letters and private items at these auctions, were not meant to be for the public. 

And hey, if one wants to spend thousands on Madonna's panties and private letters, then by all means, spend away, but don't try to justify it by comparing it to fans listening to demos or looking at outtakes which were  part of an intended released project, when those fans did not buy, distribute and leak them.

 

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2 hours ago, Enrico said:

 Did I take a picture in front of her house? Yes. Am I stalking her? No.

Going to her private house IS stalking, especially if she is inside.

What is the intention behind going to take a picture at someone's house? Imagine you look out the window and someone is taking a selfie in front of your house, is that not creepy and bizarre?

Worship of a celebrity can take some people into very dark and strange territory. There should be very strict boundaries between art and artist. Some people can't separate the two.

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Yes I purchased something that is already out in the public domain including its contents. So the issue is that I am in the possession of an original versus a copy which was sold by the owner of something gifted by M as opposed to stolen (like demo leaks - have any of you considered this at all?)

Demos are not always intended to be released or shared publically even if they are working on a project to be released publically. Some of these demos are simply for personal reference during the songwriting process. So simple fact it is an audio versus a written letter are in fact not distinct.

No-one seems to want to confirm that they did read the contents of this letter as it clearly contradicts nor strengthens their argument.

I have said all I needed about this topic and we all don't see eye to eye on this and don't want to be demonized further.

You fail to grasp my original issue which was M wanting to meet up with a pregnant woman, pestering her (stalkish like behaviour) who was married at the time. As fans we should be able to criticize the actions of a public figure regardless of the source of where that information came from (in this instance it is a letter she gifted someone else knowing full well it might be released publically). 

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I'm tired of the "as fans we should be able to criticize... the public figure" line!  Please!  It doesn't justify anything, other than excusing yourself to bad mouth her or whatever

I for one have not read the letter, nor do I have any interest in doing so.  Oh well!  At the end of the day, I'm here to celebrate Madonna not to criticize her. 

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1 hour ago, Liam said:

I'm tired of the "as fans we should be able to criticize... the public figure" line!  Please!  It doesn't justify anything, other than excusing yourself to bad mouth her or whatever

I just found posts where you have criticised M for various past projects including things that weren't meant to be revealed to the public. I guess it is fine for you to selectively bad mouth her in those instances about my idol without people on here becoming so personal and ganging up on me for double standards?

We are hear to discuss the letter including the contents of it. You keep avoiding the questions I posed to you and other readers so I assume you have no intention to.

You just keep repeating the same thing when I questioned your own logic. Going around in circles.

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On 25/06/2018 at 1:39 AM, Liam said:

No, I did not!  Can we now stick to the topic.  I'm not the subject of this post!

Also stick to your own advice. I too am not the subject of this post, yet I also realise this is a forum and here to discuss the thread. Do you expect everyone to either a) only respond to the OP or b) provide general responses to the topic but not quote people or respond to their contributions. 

You have asked me to justify why I should or shouldn't do certain things yet complain you don't want people to ask why you need to justify yourself. How does that work?

Liam over the years that I have observed you, you have shown to mock or put down people on a regular and consistent manner in this forum including this thread. I am sick of it and I choose to call you out on it now.

Stop bullying people. Simply interact with people in this forum with respect. Even in this thread you have laughed at someone's response (edit: to this post now to edit 2: now removed it). Don't expect people to not call you out.

I never got personal with you nor anyone else even when our opinions did not allign. 

Treat people with respect and stop being nasty on this forum to people of differing opinions to your own. It is not conducive to a friendly or healthy discussion. 

Screenshot_20180628-192604.jpg

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@Eyzonme

 

Quote

I for one have not read the letter, nor do I have any interest in doing so. 

Also, I never said people can't criticize her.  And the topic is about the letter, but you mentioned about spending $4K on a private item from Madonna.  Surely, you don't expect people are going to not bring that up in a topic like this which regards such items "private". 

Anyway, this is silly.  Carry on, if you must!

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25 minutes ago, Liam said:

@Eyzonme

Also, I never said people can't criticize her.  And the topic is about the letter, but you mentioned about spending $4K on a private item from Madonna.  Surely, you don't expect people are going to not bring that up in a topic like this which regards such items "private".

Anyway, this is silly.  Carry on, if you must!

But Liam, I am not the subject of this thread so why question me? I am just mearly taking your own advice aren't I? Your conviction. 

And yes this topic is about a letter that you said you have not read nor have any intention to. So why even click into this thread if you had no intention to do so?

Liam, you truly expect anyone to believe you did not read it after clicking into it full knowing what it was about with the title of the thead? Reason I raise this is because it is a bit strange if you don't want to know about it and expect people would not be commenting on the contents and by proxy find out what is in it.

Is it fair to expect someone who did not want to know what was in the letter to simply not open it since you value her privacy so much?

Are you going to respond to

1) You have asked me to justify why I should or shouldn't do certain things yet complain you don't want people to ask why you need to justify yourself. How does that work?

2)  Posts where you have criticised M for various past projects including things that weren't meant to be revealed to the public. I guess it is fine for you to selectively bad mouth her in those instances 

3) Your behaviour and bullying of members on this forum and this thread

4) Is it fair to expect someone who did not want to know what was in the letter to simply not on this thread and why it is strange for you to still act like you did not read it or not know what is in it after reading all the comments? 

5) You don't want people to respond to your opinions because you are not the OP. So how do we follow this rule so everyone remembers next time you contribute anything to this forum? Should we hold a committee meeting so we don't upset you and respect your wishes?

Carry on, I genuinely am enjoying this. I promise I won't label your rebuttals as "silly". 

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No, I'm not going to respond to all that nonsense you wrote when you're making up things that  I  and others have never said or did to you in this thread.  We're having a conversation about the letter and what we consider private or not, and you're going on and on about being bullied and twisting this as if you're being unfairly disrespected.  Furthermore, No one is bullying you. You brought up paying $4K for a private letter, so you should expect people are going to make comments on that, even if it doesn't favor you.

And I don't care if you don't believe if I read the letter!  Once again, I have no interest in reading the letter. 

You're getting a bit dramatic over this and only contradicting yourself.  Not going to read anymore of your "victim card" posts.  Consider yourself ignored! 

32 minutes ago, Eyzonme said:

But Liam, I am not the subject of this thread so why question me? I am just mearly taking your own advice aren't I? Your conviction. 

And yes this topic is about a letter that you said you have not read nor have any intention to. So why even click into this thread if you had no intention to do so?

Liam, you truly expect anyone to believe you did not read it after clicking into it full knowing what it was about with the title of the thead? Reason I raise this is because it is a bit strange if you don't want to know about it and expect people would not be commenting on the contents and by proxy find out what is in it.

Is it fair to expect someone who did not want to know what was in the letter to simply not open it. 

Are you going to respond to

1) You have asked me to justify why I should or shouldn't do certain things yet complain you don't want people to ask why you need to justify yourself. How does that work?

2)  Posts where you have criticised M for various past projects including things that weren't meant to be revealed to the public. I guess it is fine for you to selectively bad mouth her in those instances 

3) Your behaviour and bullying of members on this forum and this thread

4) Is it fair to expect someone who did not want to know what was in the letter to simply not on this thread and why it is strange for you to still act like you did not read it or not know what is in it after reading all the comments? 

 

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4 hours ago, Liam said:

Not going to read anymore of your "victim card" posts.  Considered yourself ignored!

Typical. I think it is you who is now playing the victim card? Hmm sorry not working for me and you don't get a get out of jail card this time for your attrocious behaviour on this forum. 

Have some conviction when you lecture people. I don't consider myself a victim and if you think I am because I simply was sticking up for myself so feel free to call me whatever you want - are you surprised someone did finally call you out? I expected you to actually answer the questions and call you out on your aggression issues to people on this forum to give you an opportunity to vindicate yourself. Guess you can't. It didnt have to resort to this if you simply kept it respectable when speaking to me. 

Question 6) where have I contradicted myself? Did you just drop that well thought through insult without addressing the examples I have provided on multiple occasions now where you had done so yourself? If I have contradicted myself I would prefer to know and if I am in the wrong I will be the first to admit it.

Please address my 6 questions you owe it to yourself and everyone else reading. Show everyone you are correct and can actually defend yourself because up until this point you are the one who has contradicted yourself, but unlike you I provided examples as that's how you backup an argument.

"Considered yourself ignored!" 

Are you asking whether I considered whether you will block me? Not really, but you can if you want lol. 

Apologies in advance if I have offended anyone reading in anyway but hope you can see where I am coming from. I am actually a very rational person and non-confrontational. 

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Please don't let this discussion take you too far. And don't take it so personal!!

We have different opinions but it is not necessary to attack each other.

And yes, I read the letter. I can't deny it. But I felt sorry for this violation of her privacy, while I don't feel the same way when I listen to a demo. Maybe I should, but I don't, I can't change that...

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