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Celebration & Revolver ≥ MDNA?


Xander
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I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but I was listening to Celebration (song) today, and I was thinking about how when Celebration (album) came out that some people speculated that those two songs might signify the direction of the next album, and I guess in some ways they are similar. However, as much as I like MDNA, the quality on Celebration and Revolver, and even It's So Cool and Broken, seem better. 

What do you guys think? Did you expect MDNA to be similar in sound to Celebration and Revolver? Do you think the Celebration era new tracks are better than MDNA? 

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I think the Celebration tracks are definitely not better. I believe that Madonna's awareness of the EDM scene got stuck around 2010-2011 as MDNA's opening track and second single Girl Gone Wild sounded extremely tired and unoriginal by the time it was released, and in that sense I don't think any of those productions are higher quality than some previous works. 

Oakenfold's production in the Celebration track is fine to me but no more than that. His work on It's So Cool has never left me a good impression either and I understand why it was only a bonus track on the digital platforms and destined to be lost and forgotten. In my opinion, Revolver was never a sonically decent track: bad vocals, bad lyrics, bad mixing, bad everything. Did anybody have anything better to offer her at that time? It looked like the beginning of the era when she would only get the leftovers from other top producers...

On a positive note, I think the MDNA album really offers some good stuff here and there like most of the Orbit productions and 20% of the Solveig tracks. Otherwise the rest feels like real fillers.

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The majority of those tracks were previous demos from AL, other singer demos or songs meant to finish off the Warner Bros contract in full. Celebration was of its time and sounds good. The remix gets a lot of love in clubs from non-fans the times I've gone out. People love it, hate it but in both incarnations it does what asks you do "come join the party." It's a Madonna dance song, just fun and serves its purpose.

Revolver was a demo and then recorded but apparently, what was on the final record wasn't even the final mastered finished version of the track. I think Warner Bros shot down the final mix that was intended to be used. Must be why it doesn't sound as baked as it should be.

It's So Cool is one of the many mixes/ideas of the original acoustic song. It's nothing memorable and screams bonus track. Broken on the other hand was a good track. Not single material of course but from the time period it's one of my favorites of the bunch.

I kind of knew the direction was going to be dance inspired as Guy and she hinted via Twitter before they went back into the studio. We then began knowing she was working with certain producers and their works gave an idea of what to expect. I'd say it's mostly GGW and I'm Addicted that sound anything similar to the Celebration material in a way. I didn't think she'd put out a full record of material sounding like that though but I would say some of the tracks are better than some MDNA tracks. Some MDNA tracks suffer from bad mixing, bad vocals similar to Revolver. 

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Broken is awesome.  Not sure how that was tossed aside, other than I understand why "Revolver" was chosen as it was more of the time even though it really didn't impress a lot of the fans. 

All I know is that I really have nothing to complain about. Madonna has been quite active since emerging in the 80's. I really do not know any other 80's entertainer who has kept on doing what they do best like Madonna. Many of her peers have just given up, fizzled or past away. She kept on plugging along and has had many great impactful moments long past her 80's reign.  I'm just excited to know she's still doing what she does best. I think some fans do not appreciate her presence, and rather nitpick her faults instead.  If you add up her accomplishment to the disappointments some have of her,  her accomplishments outweigh that.  Not only that, very few entertainers have managed the career she's maintained.  Many of the faults are based on society views and in the end mean nothing.  She's accomplished so much and at this point whatever she does now is the cherry on top of any dessert.  

As for MDNA, it's a more like a mix bag for me.  Probably not the best departure from Warners, but there are some killer songs on that album. I personally don't sit around moaning about what I think went wrong.  And even the worst songs on that album,  I do enjoy.  I think a lot of people forget that that entertainers tend to have an expiration date with the general public.  It's  not something I agree with.  Being Madonna is an older artist, and at this point in her career getting minimal love from those who usually promote popular artists, it's going to be harder for her.  The singles from that albums were very mainstream especially the last two singles.  It's just unfortunate that many can't just enjoy it for what it was.

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6 minutes ago, Liam said:

Broken is awesome.  Not sure how that was tossed aside, other than I understand why "Revolver" was chosen as it was more of the time even though it really didn't impress a lot of the fans. 

Ooh I almost forgot about that one. I like it too but wouldn't consider it as part of the official tracklisting of something that's supposed to include the best of. Lyrics are ok til she rehashes the fuzzy dream thing (yuck!) and the production is literally Celebration Part 2. Obviously redundant. I wish Celebration was the only new song in the compilation so maybe the slot occupied by Revolver was filled with a more timeless but often ignored classic. 

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5 minutes ago, madgefan said:

Ooh I almost forgot about that one. I like it too but wouldn't consider it as part of the official tracklisting of something that's supposed to include the best of. Lyrics are ok til she rehashes the fuzzy dream thing (yuck!) and the production is literally Celebration Part 2. Obviously redundant. I wish Celebration was the only new song in the compilation so maybe the slot occupied by Revolver was filled with a more timeless but often ignored classic. 

Yeah well, if you go back through her catalog, you'll see she's rehashed a lot of phrases and words throughout her career.  It's kinda impossible not to use the same words and phrases throughout  a 35 year career.  There's a lot of songs which reminisced the HOLIDAY theme even when she was still at her prime, but no one complained.  I think I can handle a few "Hesitate", "Fuzzy" and "Groove" songs.

To me, "Celebration" was an homage to her classic Dance songs, while "Revolver" was more of a current song of the times.

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1 minute ago, Liam said:

Yeah well, if you go back through her catalog, you'll see she's rehashed a lot of phrases and words throughout her career.  It's kinda impossible not to use the same words and phrases throughout  a 35 year career.  There's a lot of songs which reminisced the HOLIDAY theme even when she was still at her prime, but no one complained.  I think I can handle a few "Hesitate", "Fuzzy" and "Groove" songs.

But there's a reason why Holiday and other revisited songs are classics. There are many 80's songs where she constantly says the line "You've got to" as well. More recently, the Vogue elements in Holy Water: that moment is totally gorgeous because the sampled song is pop perfection. As much as I've wanted to appreciate I'm So Stupid and Miles Away throughout the years, they will never be remembered as top Madonna tracks.

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21 minutes ago, madgefan said:

But there's a reason why Holiday and other revisited songs are classics. There are many 80's songs where she constantly says the line "You've got to" as well. More recently, the Vogue elements in Holy Water: that moment is totally gorgeous because the sampled song is pop perfection. As much as I've wanted to appreciate I'm So Stupid and Miles Away throughout the years, they will never be remembered as top Madonna tracks.

I don't argue that, but the fact is; there are only so many ways you can express yourself, before you might repeat some words.  No one really cares about this, but some fans.  There were several times I recognized certain repeated words or phrases in her songs, throughout her career, but it didn't seem to matter until some fans made a big deal about it.  No one cared about this before.  I don't see what the big deal is?  And I challenge anyone else to do any better after 30 some years in the same field?  It seems silly to nitpick that she repeats words or phrases in her songs, when most artists do the the same (if not similar themes) in far less time than she has. 

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Guest Sonny
1 hour ago, thelioncourtheart_ said:

The real crime is she performed both those songs before ever doing Rescue Me. ?

This! One of my favourites as well. Unfortunately I think she either doesn't like the song or she doesn't remember its existence ?

As for the question, Celebration and Revolver are imo better than the album fillers of MDNA, but not as good as the highlights of it.

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On 7/7/2018 at 5:56 PM, Sonny said:

This! One of my favourites as well. Unfortunately I think she either doesn't like the song or she doesn't remember its existence ?

 

Totally agree. I just like this song much better than ‘Justify My Love’. I wish she would sit one day on a special TV show or something and talk about her back catalogue, song by song, period by period, and tells us about her ideas, memories, some insight info etc etc.

As for the topic, just like @Liam stated, I love Madonna’s presence on her songs. I love literally everything she did in the ‘80s, ‘90s, and 2000s (maybe with the exception of ‘Where Life Begins’ and ‘One More Chance’), and I doubt I would love these songs so much if they were sung by someone else. Her charisma and presence make the songs worthwhile to like, and she always knew how to pick a song suitable for her singing. 

That being said, I didn’t complain much about “Celebration” tracks, I just like them. Like my friends here said, I like ‘It’s So Cool’ and ‘Broken’ as well, maybe even better than the aforementioned ones. However, sadly “MDNA” was for me the point where even Madonna’s presence could not make me like the product. It was really bad. Bulk of the album was so horrible, juvenile, dated and sounded rushed. If I were to listen to this style, there were much better songs out there already done to death by other acts. I like the last three tracks and I don’t hate the first two, and ‘Beautiful Killer’ doesn’t hurt either. And that’s all.

Thankfully I loved “Rebel Heart” but a few songs which I left out to create my own version of the album. ?

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Guest Sonny
6 hours ago, Turuncan said:

As for the topic, just like @Liam stated, I love Madonna’s presence on her songs. I love literally everything she did in the ‘80s, ‘90s, and 2000s (maybe with the exception of ‘Where Life Begins’ and ‘One More Chance’)

Where Life Begins is such a great song ? Let me correct this: with the exception of "Did You Do It" and "Spanish Lesson" ? just kidding!

 

6 hours ago, Turuncan said:

Thankfully I loved “Rebel Heart” but a few songs which I left out to create my own version of the album. ?

Can I ask you how you re-arranged the tracklist? This is interesting for me as I sometimes modify her tracklists in order to enjoy the albums more.

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6 hours ago, Turuncan said:

@LiamI wish she would sit one day on a special TV show or something and talk about her back catalogue, song by song, period by period, and tells us about her ideas, memories, some insight info etc etc.

?

I've always wanted her to do this. Something like "Storytellers" on Vh1.  Perform and talk about specific songs, how they came about, etc.  Though, she's never come off like she's even remotely interested in doing such. And I suspect she's done so much, a lot of things would run together for her.

Some fans like to give her shit when she doesn't remember certain things, but what fans remember and what she remembers will not be the same.  Her career has been so huge that I can't imagine she can remember the things we do.

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1 hour ago, Liam said:

I've always wanted her to do this. Something like "Storytellers" on Vh1.  Perform and talk about specific songs, how they came about, etc.  Though, she's never come off like she's even remotely interested in doing such. And I suspect she's done so much, a lot of things would run together for her.

Some fans like to give her shit when she doesn't remember certain things, but what fans remember and what she remembers will not be the same.  Her career has been so huge that I can't imagine she can remember the things we do.

I don't think she'd be opposed to it honestly. The thing is a lot of music channels have gone almost extinct or been taken over completely by reality shows and everything else. MTV especially. I think she's shown more fondness towards looking back (Howard Stern, RHT, TOAC) so I guess if the event called for musical performances and with a person she can vibe with a lot, (Molly Meldrum, Howard Stern, Jonathan Ross) I'm sure she'd let down her guard but I'd expect a lot of information to be incorrect with dates as it would with anyone. She's lived such an adventurous life. It'd be like trying to explain the Young and The Restless to someone from the very first episode to now.

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7 minutes ago, thelioncourtheart_ said:

I don't think she'd be opposed to it honestly. The thing is a lot of music channels have gone almost extinct or been taken over completely by reality shows and everything else. MTV especially. I think she's shown more fondness towards looking back (Howard Stern, RHT, TOAC) so I guess if the event called for musical performances and with a person she can vibe with a lot, (Molly Meldrum, Howard Stern, Jonathan Ross) I'm sure she'd let down her guard but I'd expect a lot of information to be incorrect with dates as it would with anyone. She's lived such an adventurous life. It'd be like trying to explain the Young and The Restless to someone from the very first episode to now.

Yeah, while writing that, I was thinking, "Does Vh1 even air such shows like Storytellers anymore?"  And another person I think she would be very open to is Kurt Loder.  At the height of her career, she and him did some pretty great interviews together.  Though, he and Molly have seemed to gone into retirement and most younger people probably have no idea who they are. 

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2 hours ago, Sonny said:

Where Life Begins is such a great song ? Let me correct this: with the exception of "Did You Do It" and "Spanish Lesson" ? just kidding!

Nah, as a gold star gay I am not really interested in a song about cunnilingus. ?

2 hours ago, Sonny said:

 Can I ask you how you re-arranged the tracklist? This is interesting for me as I sometimes modify her tracklists in order to enjoy the albums more.

Sure, take a look below. 1-12 are “standard” tracks whereas the “deluxe” one contains 6 more + ‘Rebel Heart’ demo, which is called a remix here of course. ?

6D1A83A6-72FC-4716-8F1D-727029557DB1.png

64AD5110-8465-4F08-8172-66265C48A17C.png

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3 hours ago, Sonny said:

Where Life Begins is such a great song ? 

Lyrics and innuendos aside, I've learnt to love the André Betts tracks from Erotica throughout the years. They're so different from the rest of the songs that complete the project, and I understand sometimes they need a second or third listen because they're not as instantly attractive as Deeper and Deeper or Rain. However, one starts to appreciate them for what they are when you pay close attention to the production or enviroment they create around.

For example, imagine an evening after a hard day of work, it's raining outside and you finally find yourself home alone. Just play the CD and let the show begin. It's fascinating :Madonna038: Same happens to me with songs like Something to Remember and many Ray of Light tracks. 

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Guest Sonny
1 hour ago, Turuncan said:

Nah, as a gold star gay I am not really interested in a song about cunnilingus. ?

I am gay myself and still love it though. But I understand your point of view ?

1 hour ago, Turuncan said:

Sure, take a look below. 1-12 are “standard” tracks whereas the “deluxe” one contains 6 more + ‘Rebel Heart’ demo, which is called a remix here of course. ?

Thank you that's an interesting tracklist. You forgot the "classic" that is Bitch I'm Madonna though ? Is there an older topic about personal tracklists already?

 

8 minutes ago, madgefan said:

Lyrics and innuendos aside, I've learnt to love the André Betts tracks from Erotica throughout the years. They're so different from the rest of the songs that complete the project, and I understand sometimes they need a second or third listen because they're not as instantly attractive as Deeper and Deeper or Rain. However, one starts to appreciate them for what they are when you pay close attention to the production or enviroment they create around.

For example, imagine an evening after a hard day of work, it's raining outside and you finally find yourself home alone. Just play the CD and let the show begin. It's fascinating :Madonna038: Same happens to me with songs like Something to Remember and many Ray of Light tracks. 

This is what I mean! Thank you!

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2 hours ago, Liam said:

Yeah, while writing that, I was thinking, "Does Vh1 even air such shows like Storytellers anymore?"  And another person I think she would be very open to is Kurt Loder.  At the height of her career, she and him did some pretty great interviews together.  Though, he and Molly have seemed to gone into retirement and most younger people probably have no idea who they are. 

It's unfortunate a lot of that stuff is gone now. I think the interviewer needs to also get her and ask her about her craft rather than most that ask about her workout tips, beauty secrets and all those usual questions.

She seems to warm up and open to those mentioned a lot more.

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12 hours ago, Sonny said:

I am gay myself and still love it though. But I understand your point of view ?

 

But I am a gold star one. ? Just kidding of course, that’s a matter of taste.

 

12 hours ago, Sonny said:

Thank you that's an interesting tracklist. You forgot the "classic" that is Bitch I'm Madonna though ? Is there an older topic about personal tracklists already?

I didn’t forget it, I proudly left it out to make “the album”. ?

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On 7/10/2018 at 4:28 PM, Sonny said:

 

Thank you that's an interesting tracklist. You forgot the "classic" that is Bitch I'm Madonna though ? Is there an older topic about personal tracklists already?

 

Lol, he notoriously hates BIM. And you may have noticed one missing Holy Water. Inside Out is always the song I leave off. It just never vibes with me. The production just doesn't work. 

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Guest Sonny
10 hours ago, gafuller said:

Lol, he notoriously hates BIM. And you may have noticed one missing Holy Water. Inside Out is always the song I leave off. It just never vibes with me. The production just doesn't work.

 

4 hours ago, Turuncan said:

Can’t stand it either. A cheap and bad rehash of ‘Where Life Begins’, which I equally hate, with an unnecessary pinch of ‘Vogue’.

I agree with the BIM hate though I include it on my version of RH because I hate to leave singles out. :seeno: But guys what is wrong with you ?! Holy Water is a fun BOP and Inside Out is one of my favourites. The lyrics alone :hearteyes: I don't really like the Super Deluxe tracks cause I think they are the most dated sounding songs. Addicted for example sounds so cheap and like an MDNA outtake. Borrowed Time is the only great song from the bunch.

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