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Gay vs. Straight fans


Enrico
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  • 3 years later...
On 9/2/2018 at 5:03 PM, Enrico said:

 

I suspect it was during the Vogue/Bat/TOD era, and then for Erotica.

 

 

 

Yes, that was definitely the moment when straight men stopped following Madonna when they saw that she included gay people in her videos, tours and documentaries. They hung out with her all the time and that made her an artist identified with the gay public and that at the same time caused her straight fans to stop following her for fear of being labeled as possible covert gays. Perhaps the reaction would not have been so exaggerated if it hadn't been for the behavior of these dancers, too feminine in my opinion that even I, being gay, also recognize, felt some discomfort seeing them, especially during Like a Prayer, Now I'm following you and Cherish. Perhaps it is the rejection of the strange, the different, the new. Accustomed to the masculinity of men and the femininity of women, and then suddenly seeing something that contradicts that natural image, it will definitely take us some time to be able to accept it and feel comfortable with it.

Unfortunately, to this day the stereotype persists that gays are effeminate and dress as women, affecting gays who are not, and I think that the ideal would be for new concepts to be created so that we can all differentiate ourselves according to the behavior we have and thus avoiding misunderstandings, having to make clarifications or hurt other people's feelings.

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On 11/18/2018 at 10:13 AM, Papa DP said:

 after true blue. Beginning with The Who’s that girl tour. 

I don't think so. WTGT was attended and seen on tv literally by  EVERYBODY. I know a lot of straight men who attended. One of them even bought the 1988 calendar and years later gave it to me. The turning point was Express yourself / Vogue / BAT.

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28 minutes ago, Enrico said:

I don't think so. WTGT was attended and seen on tv literally by  EVERYBODY. I know a lot of straight men who attended. One of them even bought the 1988 calendar and years later gave it to me. The turning point was Express yourself / Vogue / BAT.

With the WTGT everybody loves Madonna even those who didn't love her in 1985 ( and were few ), let's say that a part of her audience/fans abandoned her with Like a prayer, they liked the album but not the video, and then disappeared after 1990.From 1990 onwards Madonna has remained the faithful part of her fans who have always loved and supported her.She always had gay fans even in the 80s but it is true that she was also followed by a heterosexual audience from 1985 until the end of 1987 (not to make any distinction).

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It's interesting, because when she was more 'lady of the manor Madonna' with Guy Ritchie and more detached from LGBTI+ scene, she was more gay than ever. Music, American Life and Confessions were played everywhere in the gay scene. 

Then when she wanted to play with the straight public again with Hard Candy, MDNA and Rebel Heart, she alienated everyone, because her target wasn't clear at all. Her team tried to addapt this to the new times and trends with Madame X, and celebratig the pride every since then, and being more vocal about it. 

I literally remember a straight friend looking at my records collection and asking me if he can borrow some of them, and when he arrived to 'Music' his face changed as a disguted face. I don't know how to describe it, but the fact that a 40 years old woman, was a cowgirl and the cover so colorfoul hurted his straight male alpha status, but surprisingly, none of the Britney records caused that on him... but that is an example of a general feeling that straight guys have towards her. 

 

 

 

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On 9/3/2018 at 2:28 AM, RUADJAI said:

THIS. Probably when she took the BOY TOY belt off and guys realized (if they ever did) it was a joke. 

 

Seriously tho, it was probably The Sex Book. Not to stereotype, but I feel like straight guys were/are a bit conservative with their sex. Or at least want their sex partner to have an innocence that was definitely not on display with Madonna at this time. She was ferocious and domineering and in control, and that probably scared a lot of guys. Throw on top some AIDS charity work, an all gay male dance group and a song about a feeling they couldn't understand in their wildest dreams (VOGUE). Interestingly she became less "fuckable" when she explored her most sexual era, IMHO. You could probably scream sexism or misogyny but people are attracted to what they're attracted to, and I think Dita turned alot of guys off. 

 

Thats just the first thing that comes to mind. 

also she lost her 'mysterie'  

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On 9/9/2018 at 6:47 AM, cosmicarlo818 said:

AMAZING TOPIC @Enrico!

Wish I could've lived and seen that time when M was universally loved and when it wasn't shameful! It's amazing to even consider to think today that straight men LOVED Madonna in the 80s and that it was okay... but then again this was because of her "sexiness" that she unabashedly showed, as was mentioned here. After LAP and during the BAT/Vogue periods, I see why she became a signature GAY ICON for sure... it goes without saying. I do believe her involvement with HIV/AIDS activism gave many gay men a sense of comfort, power, and guidance BACK WHEN IT WAS EVEN SHAMEFUL TO TALK ABOUT AIDS. 

Growing up in a strictly conservative, traditional, CATHOLIC country (The Philippines), Madonna was seen as a gay thing. Yes... at 9 years old I was already aware of how gay she is LOL. I remember being so discreet about listening to her and definitely very careful about watching "The Immaculate Collection" videos. It was just widely known by the late 90s/early 2000s that Madonna was just... GAY. I've come a long way from hiding my obsession for Madonna because of my strict Catholic Filipino upbringing to really being outspoken and publicly expressing my love for her now that I live in the USA. 

Here in the US, I feel MADONNA is more widely considered a GAY ICON without shame, thanks to the liberal tendencies of this country. Now it's just a little saddening she has been getting the ageist attacks -- I think only here in the USA is where ageism really hits her hard cause I know "aging" is much more appreciated and respected mostly anywhere outside the U.S./North America.

But yeah... MADONNA was already setup to be a GAY thing since even before she started. Gay men love their rare strong female characters that embody beauty, glamour, strength and escapism that help them get through adversities in their lives. Indeed, someone like that is rare and Madonna fits that. For sure she may be the first actual GAY ICON in today's music history (of course CHER but c'mon... MADONNA is gayerrrrr!)

Still alive and will never stop! LONG LIVE!

'..Growing up in a strictly conservative, traditional, CATHOLIC country (The Philippines), Madonna was seen as a gay thing. Yes... at 9 years old I was already aware of how gay she is LOL. I remember being so discreet about listening to her and definitely very careful about watching "The Immaculate Collection" videos. It was just widely known by the late 90s/early 2000s that Madonna was just... GAY. I've come a long way from hiding my obsession for Madonna because of my strict Catholic Filipino upbringing to really being outspoken and publicly expressing my love for her now that I live in the USA. ...'

the same happened to me; I am Greek

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The turning point for straight men was probably sometime around Express Yourself when Madonna solidified her image as a woman who is in charge of her sexuality. Even if it was all ironic, in the first few years she could definitely pass for a sex kitten, it all just had an ironic subtext that most people probably didn't notice anyway. In the True Blue era she already flirted with the stronger image, but it was all still relatively heteronormative. After Express Yourself things were never the same again, and then Vogue and Blond Ambition solidified the image Madonna had created.

But as silly as it is, I understand it, most heterosexual people are just attracted to different things than gay people, it's a different culture, a different lifestyle, especially at the height of the AIDS era. It would be like scoffing at the fact that gay people related to Madonna and didn't relate to, I dunno, Carlos Santana.

Straight women were more accepting, but a lot of them probably disliked Madonna because she was "crude" or "vulgar" or just overall sexual. But I still think that without the heterosexual audience, Madonna wouldn't have achieved her success, it's just that they were casual fans buying her records without thinking beyond the music and the videos.

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1. Madonna album and Like a virgin album era

straight people loved Madonna. Especially women and girls did adore her. "Madonna wannabe" wasn't a just word that comes out for no reason. She had a lot of gay friends at this time, but having gay friends doesn't mean she also had a lot of gay fans. I mean yeah many gay fans loved her for sure but It wasn't at a crazy level.

2.True blue album era

She cut her hair short and appeared like a Hollywood silver screen actress. The gays began to go crazy over her. The straight men were also crazy about Madonna, who appeared like a sexy Hollywood goddess. She was a sexy icon.

3.Like a prayer album era (include BAT and Truth or dare movie)

This is where straight men slowly began to turn away from Madonna. When Like a prayer music video came out, Catholic straight men who believed in Catholicism began to turn their backs on her, and when they saw her kissing black Jesus in the music video, white supremacist men accused her of being a whore. But still, the majority of straight men saw Madonna as a controversial sexy female singer and still liked her. But for gays, at this very time, Madonna becomes the eternal queen of pop.

4.Justify my love era

The heterosexual men began to afraid to say publicly that they liked Madonna after saw Music video. Madonna was still sexy but there was too much gay thing going around that music video! lol 

And this famous interview gave straight men who were confused as to whether they should keep liking her or hating her, giving them a decisive reason to hate her. Yes, Madonna was sexy, but not the way they wanted it. Madonna used her genius logic to shut the mouth of a ostentatious male anchor. Many heterosexual men do not like women who are smarter than themselves.

5. Erotica era. (include Sex Book and movie body of evidence)

Heterosexual men like to see women naked. But at the same time, many men seem to be more aroused by having women take off their clothes and show some shyness at the same time.

But Look at the Erotica music video, Sex book, Body of evidence. There's Zero shyness. Madonna herself was the one who controlled her body and her sexual desires. There was no shame in that. Numerous heterosexual men felt threatened by such an confident Madonna and turned their backs on her. Many straight men lost interest in Madonna as soon as they realized that she had all the initiative, not them.

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/3/2018 at 6:03 AM, Enrico said:

May I ask a tough question?

I hope my words are not misunderstood... please I don't mean to offend anyone! If I do, forgive me!

When did Madonna become a "gay thing"?

I mean, when I started being a fan, in the Eighties, everyone liked Madonna. It was.. "normal" to buy her records (one of my first M experiences was listening to the Into the groove 7'' during a party at a friend's house), to watch her movies, to go to her concerts. It was almost impossible to find a seat for the movie WTG, everyone wanted to go!

The question came to my mind after watching this Madonna Scrapbook IG post today:

I remember my male schoolmates watching the La isla bonita video and being excited and watching it frame by frame to see the moment when she touches herself a little (it seems so funny and innocent now).

A few years later, other schoolmates would call me "Lady Madonna" and make fun of me for being a Madonna fan. I think it was 1991.

When did Madonna stop being loved by heterosexual men and became mainly a gay icon?

Of course I know that NOT EVERY Madonna fan is gay, but most are, also in this forum. And her concerts it's rare to see non-gay fans. Sometimes you hear the stereotype that if you love M, you are gay: there is a movie (don't remember which one) when a girl tests a boy to see if he's gay by asking him the tracklist from Like a prayer.

I don't think this changed during LAP era. I suspect it was during the Vogue/Bat/TOD era, and then for Erotica.

After watching the great tv series Pose, it's really evident what she took from the gay underground culture and made it mainstream. Is this the reason?

 

 

I am just thinking about that too

 

Are there straight male fans???

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On 9/4/2018 at 2:46 AM, devilpray said:

I feel like since '89 she was more in charge of her own sexuality and empowered and that was seen as a threat to the female stereotype most men want in women.

This is correct for me

The patriarchy struck back after LAP and how strong Madonna was in that era. She transcended and that terrified them. Choosing the working class man over the rich suits in express yourself was way way too far :smile:.

There was already an air that Madonna was for young screaming girls but by end of the 80s it was gay by association if you were straight and liked Madonna.

I didn't give a shit if people thought l was gay but it was very educational politically seeing the shift.

Madonna did directly support the gay community but that does not override the main reason strong woman are characterised as gay icons

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