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A glimpse into who Madonna really is


NowRadiate
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11 minutes ago, Frank said:

That was indeed a superb interview. Perfect to go with the Secret Project video.

I agree. But also, it’s still relevant today. I think she is making universal statements that apply all the time, everywhere. I would even go so far as to think that some of the online reactions to her (by fans and others) result from the „backwards-development“ and „loss of consciousness“ she speaks about. It’s just about connecting the dots.

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To play devil's advocate, it is interviews like this that make people hold Madonna up to a higher standard. They expect intelligent, thought-provoking people like herself to always be this type of person, so when she gets cheek and butt implants they get angry and disappointed and lash out. Feeling that it is beneath her intelligence to participate in such things. That only insecure, desperate people do such things.

I think the Madonna of Ray of Light (as an example) was presented as a woman who would buck trends and not care about aging or staying current or what anyone thought, many interpreted that as a woman who would age naturally and make music that was not about scoring a hit. Many people (whether right or wrong) hold her to that.

They want what they see in this interview in music form and in presentation. I think many think HC, MDNA and even Rebel Heart is beneath her capabitlity as an artist and that she has caved into pressure to be young and relevant.

Personally I don't care about the surgery and other things. Just give me good music and great live performances.

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@me1981:

Interesting point, and I get the way of thinking. What I don’t truly understand is how people pinpont Madonna to being one way or another just because of a certain era. Why can’t we understand that she has both sides: the one that wants plastic surgery enhancements while still seeking to reach equality in regards to society standards? She‘s both meaningless fun and dance, plus social consciousness.

Just because somebody decides to get plastic surgery it doesn’t mean they’re overall just superficial or dumb, or not capable of being a true artist with depth, or capable of fighting for equality in all various ways.

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Guest PâtisseriexEnthusiast

One of my all-time favourite interviews by any artist!

Excellent questions, well-thought responses, good chemistry, inspirational message.

M has always been an intelligent & well spoken individual, but she impressed me even more in this interview. 

 

However! She wouldn’t be who she is without her sense of humour & love for controversy & pushing buttons! Gotta appreciate both sides! Rebel x Heart

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11 hours ago, NowRadiate said:

In the midst of discussions on wigs, fur, implants, fillers, age, and all other superficial things that might rock your world, I challenge everyone to watch this entire interview. One might not agree with all she says but it is definitely a glimpse into who Madonna is and what she stands for/stood for, what moves her, as an artist, as a human being. 

So next time, one goes on about with their ageist and superficial judgements, take a second to remember who this great artist and freedom fighter is. 

It’s a long video. I dare you to watch it all and truly think about what she is saying.

 

I wish she still looked like this the MDNA era was perfect

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15 hours ago, NowRadiate said:

In the midst of discussions on wigs, fur, implants, fillers, age, and all other superficial things that might rock your world, I challenge everyone to watch this entire interview. One might not agree with all she says but it is definitely a glimpse into who Madonna is and what she stands for/stood for, what moves her, as an artist, as a human being. 

So next time, one goes on about with their ageist and superficial judgements, take a second to remember who this great artist and freedom fighter is. 

It’s a long video. I dare you to watch it all and truly think about what she is saying.

 

One of my favourite interviews but just seemed like another role she was playing.

Maybe in her mind she is a freedom fighter, but where did that drive go? Art For Freedom went nowhere. She only made Secret Project as an afterthought to what was supposed to be an underwear campaign.

To me she always seemed conflicted between a radical performance artist and a commercial business empire...you can't be both. She straddles both worlds well but something has to give.

Fighting for freedom, but first let me get those cheeks cushions so I look good fighting for freedom...

This is the Madonna I love and want more of but since she pulled the American Life video, she seemed neutered to me. Don't forget she censored herself in Singapore with the Rebel Heart Tour...where is the freedom fighter there?

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15 hours ago, me1981 said:

To play devil's advocate, it is interviews like this that make people hold Madonna up to a higher standard.

Bingo! I really thought she'd imbue Rebel Heart with the spirit of this project/interview...

M herself should watch this to remember her essence and the uniqueness she keeps diluting, not us!

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7 hours ago, anaglyphx said:

One of my favourite interviews but just seemed like another role she was playing.

Maybe in her mind she is a freedom fighter, but where did that drive go? Art For Freedom went nowhere. She only made Secret Project as an afterthought to what was supposed to be an underwear campaign.

To me she always seemed conflicted between a radical performance artist and a commercial business empire...you can't be both. She straddles both worlds well but something has to give.

Fighting for freedom, but first let me get those cheeks cushions so I look good fighting for freedom...

This is the Madonna I love and want more of but since she pulled the American Life video, she seemed neutered to me. Don't forget she censored herself in Singapore with the Rebel Heart Tour...where is the freedom fighter there?

I respectfully disagree about the “role playing”. Who are we to *know* if she is playing a role? Even if we knew her in real life, were around her everyday, I don’t think we could tell 100%. 

Yes, the video was an afterthought but who says she wouldn’t have expressed all that built up inside her in another shape or form, another time, if the lingerie commercial had materialized?

How did she censor herself in Singapore?

And why do we feel we need to mentally punish her when we feel she doesn’t live up to our expectations when she has to pull American Life, or anything else that you would categorize as being commercial or less of a freedom fighter?

She can’t just bulldozer through everything, can she? She’s human, and has her limitations. And she has commercial limitations that she has given in to. That doesn’t diminish the angle she is coming from. Sometimes she is successful with it, orher times she isn’t. I don’t think one can expect her to always push through and be successful with her freedom fighting. 

Also, I don’t see what’s confessional about this interview. Is it because she actually explains things? Is it the contrast to other superficial interviews that makes it seem confessional? 

It seems more like there’s a mentality of punishment amongst people. “Oh you said this and you didn’t push through or fulfill my expectations? You’re not what you say you are.” This says a lot more about people viewing her this way than about Madonna. It’s fandom but also holding her hostage to fan’s expectations. Fans incarcerating her to delightfully punish her, making themselves feel better about themselves, having something to judge, the like/dislike mentality of our time. And this is, again, powerplay, and not the actual appreciation of artistry. 

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4 hours ago, billybillybobilly said:

 

M herself should watch this to remember her essence and the uniqueness she keeps diluting, not us!

That’s the mentality I mean. This is holding her hostage to one specific expectation. 

“Madonna, you’re unique, great essence. But always display it or else we punish you because we own you.”

She is diluting her essence? She might not display this facet of her all the time, but diluting it? 

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5 hours ago, NowRadiate said:

 

How did she censor herself in Singapore?

 

The samurai with the crosses for the opening act just had sticks and Iconic was cut, as was Holy Water and Devil Pray...yet everything else was ok. 

Singapore has crazy religious laws, so instead of fighting for that freedom, she relented. Possibly paid a high price to do so. Yet she can challenge Russian anit-gay laws. I'm confused how she picks and chooses her fights. The same woman who refused to bow to the Pope's call for censorship...all to promote a show and album called REBEL Heart...

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22 minutes ago, anaglyphx said:

The samurai with the crosses for the opening act just had sticks and Iconic was cut, as was Holy Water and Devil Pray...yet everything else was ok. 

Singapore has crazy religious laws, so instead of fighting for that freedom, she relented. Possibly paid a high price to do so. Yet she can challenge Russian anit-gay laws. I'm confused how she picks and chooses her fights. The same woman who refused to bow to the Pope's call for censorship...all to promote a show and album called REBEL Heart...

I guess it all depends on the stakes/penalties. I didn't know she censored her show so much for Singapore but can't really call her out for that. I'm focusing on the intention, not intending to deconstruct her.

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51 minutes ago, anaglyphx said:

The samurai with the crosses for the opening act just had sticks and Iconic was cut, as was Holy Water and Devil Pray...yet everything else was ok. 

Singapore has crazy religious laws, so instead of fighting for that freedom, she relented. Possibly paid a high price to do so. Yet she can challenge Russian anit-gay laws. I'm confused how she picks and chooses her fights. The same woman who refused to bow to the Pope's call for censorship...all to promote a show and album called REBEL Heart...

Which freedom are you talking about? Is it the freedom to offend the audience's culture ? Cuz people there really believe in religion and if you wanna sing that your vagina fluids taste like holy water while spanking a nun, then you must have a really good reason to do it!

It's like going to a Muslim country and performing sex acts on stage with the Islam symbol. It is disrespectful unless you are trying to express a strong positive message. For instance, Like a Prayer video was offensive for many people, but the use of Christian symbolism there is justified by the overall message. 

Now, what is the performance of Holy Water all about? Where is the strong positive message? Let's face it: it's just for the sake of mocking religion. So, I'm glad that she respected the culture and the laws of the place that she was going to perform for the very first time since she had no real reason not to do so. 

I'm not religious, but I don't support blasphemy...

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8 hours ago, Lucifer's Angel said:

Which freedom are you talking about? Is it the freedom to offend the audience's culture ? Cuz people there really believe in religion and if you wanna sing that your vagina fluids taste like holy water while spanking a nun, then you must have a really good reason to do it!

It's like going to a Muslim country and performing sex acts on stage with the Islam symbol. It is disrespectful unless you are trying to express a strong positive message. For instance, Like a Prayer video was offensive for many people, but the use of Christian symbolism there is justified by the overall message. 

Now, what is the performance of Holy Water all about? Where is the strong positive message? Let's face it: it's just for the sake of mocking religion. So, I'm glad that she respected the culture and the laws of the place that she was going to perform for the very first time since she had no real reason not to do so. 

I'm not religious, but I don't support blasphemy...

If you’re a boring bland corporate shill of course you should respect the dumb laws of some countries.  If you are marketing yourself as a rebel that is opposed to censorship and limited expression then you better fight to the end for it. Just like she says in the interview video...

All great art requires risk. That is why she became great in the first place. I think getting crucified in Rome was a bigger insult to some than having  crosses and religious songs in notoriously authoritarian Singapore. 

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9 hours ago, anaglyphx said:

If you’re a boring bland corporate shill of course you should respect the dumb laws of some countries.  If you are marketing yourself as a rebel that is opposed to censorship and limited expression then you better fight to the end for it. Just like she says in the interview video...

All great art requires risk. That is why she became great in the first place. I think getting crucified in Rome was a bigger insult to some than having  crosses and religious songs in notoriously authoritarian Singapore. 

I totally disagree with you. Freedom of expression is not freedom of insulting without reasons. Being crucified in Rome is a totally different case. In case you did not notice, while she was crucified there was a countdown on the back. those numbers represented the kids dead for AIDS in Africa. It is fucking strong ARTISTIC message that deserves powerful visuals. That is why she had no problem to go against the Vatican. That was a message worthy fighting for. 

Again, the Holy Water performance did not have any strong message to back up that strong religious symbolism.

To show sensibility towards the laws and culture of the country in which you are performing  does not make you a boring bland corporate shill like you say....there was no substance to defend, but if she wanted to defend her "freedom of making fun of Christian religion" she would have not got the approval of the government to perform there...and all the Indonesian fans would have lost the opportunity to see her for the first time.

On top of that, Rome is under the Italian government which is not religion-based, so the Vatican had no power to prevent Madonna from performing in Rome.

The audience in Rome enjoyed a lot that performance. Meanwhile, the audience in Singapore would have got offended very easily.

You know, a real rebel knows when to be flexible in a fight ;)

p.s. the censorship of AL was the true mistake that Madonna made U_U

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18 minutes ago, Elisa said:

There are interviews that are vastly superior to this one.... during the ROL era, during the COD era (for example, when she questions the concept of "having fun" in IMTTYAS). There's nothing really deep and wise about this interview.... The same answers could have been given by someone as Miley Cyrus or Katy Perry. The interview is so politically correct and predictable it makes it boring. I know many will disagree, but this was kind of the start of Madonna becoming a SJW. In my humble opinion, the "Secret Project" was pure bullshit with no depth. It was just a bunch of platitudes about political rebellion and freedom.... which just showed that she's in love with the figure of the political rebel. It didn't have the substance of "American Life". During the 80's and 90's, Madonna didn't constantly use the words "feminist", "homophobia", "misogyny", "fascism".....  she used to fight these things but in a smarter way, in a more subtle way, in a more artistic and less boring way. She was much less binary. Now she jumped on the SJW bandwagon, again to please the millennials. The Madonna I know didn't whine and cry in front of a crowd because her billionaire self-made ass was oppressed by the industry. She was a soldier, aware from day 1 that life is tough, that nothing will be handed on a platter. 

I actually agree with you - I remember watching this interview when it first aired and feeling similarly, that most of what she was saying could've been lifted from Hallmark cards or something. That's not to say I disagree with her or think she's being disingenuous, I just felt there had been times when she made these points in a more interesting and articulate way. I don't think she's jumping on the SJW bandwagon though - if anything, she's been on it before the term was coined and it was a fashionable thing to do. 

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27 minutes ago, Elisa said:

There are interviews that are vastly superior to this one.... during the ROL era, during the COD era (for example, when she questions the concept of "having fun" in IMTTYAS). There's nothing really deep and wise about this interview.... The same answers could have been given by someone as Miley Cyrus or Katy Perry. The interview is so politically correct and predictable it makes it boring. I know many will disagree, but this was kind of the start of Madonna becoming a SJW. In my humble opinion, the "Secret Project" was pure bullshit with no depth. It was just a bunch of platitudes about political rebellion and freedom.... which just showed that she's in love with the figure of the political rebel. It didn't have the substance of "American Life". During the 80's and 90's, Madonna didn't constantly use the words "feminist", "homophobia", "misogyny", "fascism".....  she used to fight these things but in a smarter way, in a more subtle way, in a more artistic and less boring way. She was much less binary. Now she jumped on the SJW bandwagon, again to please the millennials. The Madonna I know didn't whine and cry in front of a crowd because her billionaire self-made ass was oppressed by the industry. She was a soldier, aware from day 1 that life is tough, that nothing will be handed on a platter. 

Care to elaborate what SJW means?

You sure know how to criticize, feel free to post a link to the deeper interviews you’re talking about.

And what makes you think that she has „lost“ the depth? Just because she speaks differently now, and is a billionaire? I smell social/financial envy.

The point is, she has it in her, the depth, while we on here keep going crazy about a hair color choice, or a release date. Her will to be a freedom fighter outweighs the rest for me.

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Secret Project was about the alt-right and was not the first time she had talked about that subject, Her stance against Le Pen during MDNA Tour and all the way back during S&S tour with her speech about the discrimination against romani people. It’s not something that came out of nowhere. Its something she had been processing for a long while. She never spoke more about “SJW” stuff than on MDNA Tour. As times became darker she became more vocal. I wish it had continued with Rebel Heart a bit more... in fact she was pretty quiet during the 2016 US election up until almost the end, for whatever reason. 

I also dont think shes trying to please millenials, in fact it didnt seem to me like she thought millenials were all that during the panel with marilyn minter. She had to be told statistics of the demographics of the 2016 US election, unless Im misremembering. I dont know her or her political beliefs that much, but I get the sense she’s had an evolution in recent years like most of us have. Its important to be open minded and remain engaged rather than stay safe in old fashioned values and outdated views of the world which we all have at some point. 

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@Elisa,

 Ok, duely noted. And yes, I read your post and genuinly wondered. If I was so disappointed, I wouldn’t be here. I think everybody should let go of the expectations built from past eras. Holding her to a standard is one thing, judging negatively all aspects of what Madonna of today or recent years by comparison with past eras doesn’t really lead anywhere good, does it? It’s nerve-wrecking. But I‘ve probably yet to see more positive posts. Maybe you’re just being nostalgic she is not the larger-than-life star that I also experienced her as in the 80s/90s. It’s different times now. 

Also, this whole thread is about remembering that she has a socio-political stance, no matter how shallow things may seem. It takes guts and it‘s admirable. And I get mad when this is being downplayed by saying “quality has been lacking with her”. It reads as self-important judgement, and nothing beyond that. It would do everybody good to keep one’s expectations in check and understand that, just like everybody else, she has always expressed and played with her inherent duality. Madonna. Mother of God or Jezebel. Shallow and deep. Entertainer and mindset-challenger. Get what I mean? The negativity about her is just daunting. And it’s coming from people who claim to be her fans? If only they said they HAVE BEEN fans but are so no more, that would be pretty trackable. But that would really bring me back to: Why waste time here then? Why not focus on things and people you do admire? Of today. Not yesterday. But perhaps that’s the problem. There might not be many people to admire because they do not speak out, they do not entertain very well or challenge mindsets. They just want to be famous and commercially successful, using legendary artist’s statements as throwaway slogans. Hollow. But no need to dissect or deconstruct the legends that still do exist.

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