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Possible controversial thoughts based on hearing the RAY OF LIGHT DEMO ASSEMBLY....


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Thanks for the topic :) I just finished listening to the tracks and I was looking for a place to share and confront the early impressions.

Orbit certainly took his touch by creating complex sound patterns and a much more electronic vibe to the whole thing. Some songs became more energetic (Sky fits Heaven, Skin, Nothing really matters), instead of the subtle, dreamy and much darker mood these tracks had in the early stages. Her voice consequently had to be adapted to the new sound, with a "louder" and firmer attitude, instead of the whispered, gloomy tone of many of the demos vocals. There certainly is an undeniable change between the pre and post Orbit involvement, at the same time, I agree, the soul of the record was already there.

Personally, I like the new dimension these demos are giving to the tracks a lot. It's like discovering the other side of the whole project (the demos often have this straight-to-the-core kind of feeling to me, it's the same for the Erotica tracks). One of the things I miss the most in all her post-Music works is just her expressive whispered voice wich such a delicate, sensual and intriguing vibe was able to lend to songs like Inside of me, Secret garden, Bedtime Story, Swim, I want you. I'm madly happy at the moment actually. 

The tracks I like the most are Noting really matters, whose arrangement underlines the beauty of the armony and the solidity of the whole composition more than the final production imo, Flirtation Dance, sensual and haunting, Be careful, wich I'd say is better than the released version, Has To Be 1, wich is so dark and intense, inspiring complete different emotions, and You'll Stay, intense and very sophisticated. The two Babyface tracks are both good. I'm more interested in I'll be gone, but just for a matter of personal genre preference, Never love a stranger is a gorgeous track in her style.

So, after 4 years without a single new note, all at once we're sharing this, just a month or so before the announcement of the beginning of the new era! And I have to say, every time it's amazing rediscovering the sound of her voice! Thanks again for the sharing, whoever you are :heart:

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Andrew Bird steered her toward the UK and UK production. The Prodigy almost made Ray of Light if they didn’t have their own record to promote.

These demos are post-Evita and Bedtime Stories with a little thread from Erotica. Nothing to do with what Ray of Light became. Because she took her time it allowed the album to evolve into something amazing. 

I just wish she would take her time on ALL her records to allow them to breathe. Often the tour versions are better than album versions because she has time to play with them. 

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1 hour ago, dhrbb03 said:

Yup. All of this. I’m loving it. Don’t get me wrong, the end product is one of my favorite albums of all time. But there’s something else on these demos.

Yes. There's an spontaneity to them, but then I think any demo from any artist has those same qualities. In Madonnaa's case, her demos are sometimes better than the final versions. And let's not forget that Into the groove IS a demo that was ultimately released. 

Which is great about demos is that they bring the possibility of contrast, so both versions can be appreciated differently. We are inclined, I don't know really why, to favour the demos. Maybe is it because we think they're more "real"? Or more "indie"?

IMO, Nothing really matters is melodically better as much as No subtitute for love. Be careful is great. I wouldn't be too sure about the other tracks. She seems uncertain of which  direction to take. It's jazzy sometimes.

Thanks a lot for sharing this.

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1 minute ago, Cadorcha said:

Yes. There's an spontaneity to them, but then I think any demo from any artist has those same qualities. In Madonnaa's case, her demos are sometimes better than the final versions. And let's not forget that Into the groove IS a demo that was ultimately released. 

Which is great about demos is that they bring the possibility of contrast, so both versions can be appreciated differently. We are inclined, I don't know really why, to favour the demos. Maybe is it because we think they're more "real"? Or more "indie"?

IMO, Nothing really matters is melodically better as much as No subtitute for love. Be careful is great. I wouldn't be too sure about the other tracks. She seems uncertain of which  direction to take. It's jazzy sometimes.

Thanks a lot for sharing this.

Just having additional versions is a plus for me. I don’t think I could pick favorites between the versions. It’s too difficult for me.

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I love hearing these demos but you can very much hear it is a work in progress.

William Orbit and the other producers gave it more of a vision and helped turn her work into the masterpiece it is. They gave it a modern innovative sound that the other producers couldn't.

And it is not just the production but the songwriting as well.

While it is nice to hear her sing with piano on Has To Be for example, the song in its original form is all over the place. Flirtation Dance also lacks the structure of the final version of Skin.

Frozen really lacks the dramatic impact of the final production.

They could very well have had Patrick Leonard and Rick Nowels produce the album and the result would have been okay but it wouldn't have been the masterpiece the album is. I believe she described it in one of her letters as a "Peter Gabriel album." She was correct there.

Also don't forget there are songs that Orbit brought to the table which wouldn't exist without his involvement. He was integral.

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I appreciate everyones feedback and just a couple notes, Im not comparing the demo assembly to the final.  The final is a work of art and to this day I listen to that album regularly from beginning to end.

My point is simply i dont know anymore if ROL was as magnificent as it was because of William Orbit.

She did 50% percent of the album before WO and these demos suggest to me that maybe Rick Nowells inspired the final product just as much as WO added his elements.  I'd be interested in Rick working with Madonna in some way again.  It feels like he certainly helped create the atmosphere of the eventual album we all love.   If anyone in here is a Lana fan, I feel the same atmosphere in her albums which are Rick prodcued as well so im seeing a link here.

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19 minutes ago, Jackie said:

I wonder, if this was a pitch to WB to gauge which direction she should go in - there's a lot of different genres on the assembly - interesting!

 

I suppose it was just to show where she was at. It may very well be what she showed Orbit when she started working with him.

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1 minute ago, pourhomme80 said:

I appreciate everyones feedback and just a couple notes, Im not comparing the demo assembly to the final.  The final is a work of art and to this day I listen to that album regularly from beginning to end.

My point is simply i dont know anymore if ROL was as magnificent as it was because of William Orbit.

She did 50% percent of the album before WO and these demos suggest to me that maybe Rick Nowells inspired the final product just as much as WO added his elements.  I'd be interested in Rick working with Madonna in some way again.  It feels like he certainly helped create the atmosphere of the eventual album we all love.   If anyone in here is a Lana fan, I feel the same atmosphere in her albums which are Rick prodcued as well so im seeing a link here.

I agree with you. William Orbit couldn't make that album by himself. Patrick Leonard, Rick Nowels and Madonna are all great songwriters.

I think he got a lot of credit because he brought the most original and innovate aspects to the album and made it cutting edge. Without him it would have been just another Madonna album. So I think he deserves that credit. But he wasn't really the heart of the album, it was Madonna and the other songwriters.

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As I said already when we first heard the snippets, those demos are great, and they push us to re-evaluate Pat Leonard's contribution. If you listen to Frozen, the magic was already there. The final version is way better - better sounds, better new lyrics - but still the demo shows a new direction for Madonna. Same for Sky fits heaven. IMO Be careful is a lot more interesting, with its verses, than the dull released duet. Orbit has the merit of producing a very cohesive album with a great, modern sound, but he found a really solid base to work on.

But that's how it should always be and that's what is missed in the last albums: Madonna writing songs with great musicians (she writes interesting lyrics and they provide great melodies, and doesn't just choose material written for her by 10 writers) and then chooses one great producer to blend everything in a unique album and a unique sound.

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I wonder if these are some of the songs Pat left behind in his rent-a-car. I love the demos and I think it's amazing inside look before William joined the party. The babyface songs have the late 90's sound. My only problem is a few of the tracks sound like her vocals are pitched higher than normal. I don't know if that's on purpose or not, esp. Nothing Really Matters

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2 hours ago, Enrico said:

As I said already when we first heard the snippets, those demos are great, and they push us to re-evaluate Pat Leonard's contribution. If you listen to Frozen, the magic was already there. The final version is way better - better sounds, better new lyrics - but still the demo shows a new direction for Madonna. Same for Sky fits heaven. IMO Be careful is a lot more interesting, with its verses, than the dull released duet. Orbit has the merit of producing a very cohesive album with a great, modern sound, but he found a really solid base to work on.

But that's how it should always be and that's what is missed in the last albums: Madonna writing songs with great musicians (she writes interesting lyrics and they provide great melodies, and doesn't just choose material written for her by 10 writers) and then chooses one great producer to blend everything in a unique album and a unique sound.

I agree totally!  

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Rick Nowels wrote four songs (and that's by generously including "Drowned World" which he demoed), let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yes, you might get a vague "Lana" vibe out of these demos, but I highly doubt Mr Nowels even came close to this album after the initial sessions. It's just fan fiction of putting Madonna and Lana in the same constellation somehow. This is coming from someone who's sort of an ex-fan of Lana, so sorry if it's a bit jaded. I do admit those three songs are very strong, and "The Power of Good-Bye" is one of my favorite ever tracks. So yeah, I would love him to write something with Madonna again, but I wish she'd stay away from Lana's one-trick pony aesthetic and sound as much as possible.

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I absolutely get what you are trying to say! Those spiritual/mysterious vibes, that's what makes the album perfect, it makes you have VISIONS, she perfectly said it, this album is DRUG, if you want to know more search "pineal gland", a thing a lot of people has and can be stimulated with music like this, i'm also a Lana Del Rey listener and yes, her music produced by Rick totally gives me the same vibes as ROL, just listen "Salvatore", i'll tell you something since you seem to like all these vibes from ROL, some years ago i was searching a lot of music similar to this album, i asked in a lot of groups about music critics and blah blah, no one ever gave me something similar, but on that group i saw people praising an album by an argentinian rockstar (Gustavo Cerati), i listened the album Bocanada and wow, i really couldn't believe it felt like the Ray Of Light brother! the same ambient/electronic/psychodelia sounds plus the "put your head on my shoulder baby, things ca..." vibes (Bocanada came just 1 year later than ROL) i'd say Gustavo wanted to do something VERY similar to ROL and no one noticed but now i don't know since i listened his first album and it is also psychodelia music, please listen to it, no matter if you don't know spanish, you'll enjoy all the production! and now if you wanna keep reading this bible lol i'll tell you this story some Madonna spanish-speaking fans may know already but the ones of other countries not, also some years later from ROL, a mexican singer (Fey) released a COMPLETE COPYCAT of the ROL album, her album Vertigo, which has a version with all the songs in english, you can search the album art (scans) and compare to ROL and it's even the same position of texts, images, colors, she even tried to make her version of the logo, and the songs are kind of good but not really well done as ROL or Bocanada, by the way that album was a complete flop... listen to it if you want to, it's interesting :)  sorry for typing "vibes" like 7 times.

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3 hours ago, drownedworld said:

I absolutely get what you are trying to say! Those spiritual/mysterious vibes, that's what makes the album perfect, it makes you have VISIONS, she perfectly said it, this album is DRUG, if you want to know more search "pineal gland", a thing a lot of people has and can be stimulated with music like this, i'm also a Lana Del Rey listener and yes, her music produced by Rick totally gives me the same vibes as ROL, just listen "Salvatore", i'll tell you something since you seem to like all these vibes from ROL, some years ago i was searching a lot of music similar to this album, i asked in a lot of groups about music critics and blah blah, no one ever gave me something similar, but on that group i saw people praising an album by an argentinian rockstar (Gustavo Cerati), i listened the album Bocanada and wow, i really couldn't believe it felt like the Ray Of Light brother! the same ambient/electronic/psychodelia sounds plus the "put your head on my shoulder baby, things ca..." vibes (Bocanada came just 1 year later than ROL) i'd say Gustavo wanted to do something VERY similar to ROL and no one noticed but now i don't know since i listened his first album and it is also psychodelia music, please listen to it, no matter if you don't know spanish, you'll enjoy all the production! and now if you wanna keep reading this bible lol i'll tell you this story some Madonna spanish-speaking fans may know already but the ones of other countries not, also some years later from ROL, a mexican singer (Fey) released a COMPLETE COPYCAT of the ROL album, her album Vertigo, which has a version with all the songs in english, you can search the album art (scans) and compare to ROL and it's even the same position of texts, images, colors, she even tried to make her version of the logo, and the songs are kind of good but not really well done as ROL or Bocanada, by the way that album was a complete flop... listen to it if you want to, it's interesting :)  sorry for typing "vibes" like 7 times.

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I have never read if it was ever compared to Bocanada, but I've always felt it!

Bocanada has the same mood and feels and even sounds as ROL... I've always wondered if he was influenced by the album OR if he was influenced by Orbit's work

I love both albums and love what they make me feel!

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13 minutes ago, addictedsober said:

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I have never read if it was ever compared to Bocanada, but I've always felt it!

Bocanada has the same mood and feels and even sounds as ROL... I've always wondered if he was influenced by the album OR if he was influenced by Orbit's work

I love both albums and love what they make me feel!

i'm shook lol! yess i always listen to them together! first ROL and then Bocanada :hearteyes: 

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7 hours ago, Future Lover said:

Rick Nowels wrote four songs (and that's by generously including "Drowned World" which he demoed), let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yes, you might get a vague "Lana" vibe out of these demos, but I highly doubt Mr Nowels even came close to this album after the initial sessions. It's just fan fiction of putting Madonna and Lana in the same constellation somehow. This is coming from someone who's sort of an ex-fan of Lana, so sorry if it's a bit jaded. I do admit those three songs are very strong, and "The Power of Good-Bye" is one of my favorite ever tracks. So yeah, I would love him to write something with Madonna again, but I wish she'd stay away from Lana's one-trick pony aesthetic and sound as much as possible.

Do we know which tracks Rick touched from this demo assembly? I have no idea who it is Rick or Patrick or whoever was involved in these early tracks.  I mean Frozen which is one of the epic tracks from the album is already essentially complete on this demo cd - the feels are all there - those strings - I mean it’s magical.  I prefer the ultimate final with the strong vocal.  

The ultimate connecting factor i guess is, Madonna herself!

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does anyone remember that interview (dont know if it was rick nowles or patrick leonard) in which they mentioned some of these demos, especially flirtation dance, being completely different from the released version and kind of regretting the world would never get to hear it?

I need to find it :'( 

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