Jump to content

Possible controversial thoughts based on hearing the RAY OF LIGHT DEMO ASSEMBLY....


AModSquad
 Share

Recommended Posts

45 minutes ago, addictedsober said:

does anyone remember that interview (dont know if it was rick nowles or patrick leonard) in which they mentioned some of these demos, especially flirtation dance, being completely different from the released version and kind of regretting the world would never get to hear it?

I need to find it :'( 

I think this Patrick Leonard interview from 2015 is what you're looking for -

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/madonna-rebel-heart-tour-patrick-leonard_us_55ef2748e4b093be51bc5ffc

 

You were going to be the lead producer on “Ray of Light,” but Madonna went with William Orbit after you guys started working on it. Then it was wildly acclaimed and earned a Grammy nom for Album of the Year. Were you disappointed that one passed you by?

No. We were always pretty straight ahead and upfront with each other. We went to Florida, we wrote all those songs, and then she just said, “Look, I came across this guy and I want to do it with him.” And I said, “Go.” After a little while, she said, “Can you come and help? Just help guide it.” So I did. And that’s what it was. I wasn’t uninvolved. In some ways, I was very involved, because it was a lot of little contributions that got made. What I remember always with her is it was never veiled; it was never some shrouded thing — it was like, “Here’s what I like, here’s what I want to do.” And I think it’s a great album.

Are there any Madonna songs that never saw the light of day that you wish the world could hear?

Let’s see. We didn’t write excessively at all. I think there was one song that ended up a B-side. We didn’t really write things we didn’t use, so the crazy thing about it is the “Like a Prayer” album was written a song a day over a two-week period, with the exception of “Oh Father.” We would just go in and write a song, and then go in the next day and write a song. The day we wrote “Like a Prayer” was no different than the day we wrote “Dear Jessie.” Something either worked or didn’t. And if it didn’t work, it was so much easier to just come up with something else. 

One caveat is the stuff that we were going to do on “Ray of Light” that got changed — she did it more electronically, the way it went. Obviously coming off of “Like a Prayer” and all those other things and all of our history, it wasn’t without juice in its concept. It would have been ferocious in a different way. It wasn’t like it was going to be bad and it suddenly got good. There were some of these exotic voices, and there were really intense rhythm figures played by multiple instruments — stuff that was really fascinating. But some of those demos are still worth a listen to hear the song and go, “Wow, why didn’t we hear this?” I’m not saying it’s better than what came out, and I’m not saying it would have done better. None of that. But there was a lot of years there — our collaboration was 10 years old at that point. Like, “Frozen” is “Frozen” — that is the song we wrote. But I think “Skin,” the original version of that, was terrifyingly cool. And no one will ever hear it. It was something were you definitely went, “Wow, this is going to be amazing.” It was a really cool song, period, and it stayed a cool song. But there was something about that first song that was greasy and sexy and gross. It was really weird and I really liked it. The long and short of it is there’s no bad news at all from me where working with her was concerned. I wish her only the best and I’m proud of her for giving them hell all the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, You Thrill Me said:

I think this Patrick Leonard interview from 2015 is what you're looking for -

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/madonna-rebel-heart-tour-patrick-leonard_us_55ef2748e4b093be51bc5ffc

  Hide contents

You were going to be the lead producer on “Ray of Light,” but Madonna went with William Orbit after you guys started working on it. Then it was wildly acclaimed and earned a Grammy nom for Album of the Year. Were you disappointed that one passed you by?

No. We were always pretty straight ahead and upfront with each other. We went to Florida, we wrote all those songs, and then she just said, “Look, I came across this guy and I want to do it with him.” And I said, “Go.” After a little while, she said, “Can you come and help? Just help guide it.” So I did. And that’s what it was. I wasn’t uninvolved. In some ways, I was very involved, because it was a lot of little contributions that got made. What I remember always with her is it was never veiled; it was never some shrouded thing — it was like, “Here’s what I like, here’s what I want to do.” And I think it’s a great album.

Are there any Madonna songs that never saw the light of day that you wish the world could hear?

Let’s see. We didn’t write excessively at all. I think there was one song that ended up a B-side. We didn’t really write things we didn’t use, so the crazy thing about it is the “Like a Prayer” album was written a song a day over a two-week period, with the exception of “Oh Father.” We would just go in and write a song, and then go in the next day and write a song. The day we wrote “Like a Prayer” was no different than the day we wrote “Dear Jessie.” Something either worked or didn’t. And if it didn’t work, it was so much easier to just come up with something else. 

One caveat is the stuff that we were going to do on “Ray of Light” that got changed — she did it more electronically, the way it went. Obviously coming off of “Like a Prayer” and all those other things and all of our history, it wasn’t without juice in its concept. It would have been ferocious in a different way. It wasn’t like it was going to be bad and it suddenly got good. There were some of these exotic voices, and there were really intense rhythm figures played by multiple instruments — stuff that was really fascinating. But some of those demos are still worth a listen to hear the song and go, “Wow, why didn’t we hear this?” I’m not saying it’s better than what came out, and I’m not saying it would have done better. None of that. But there was a lot of years there — our collaboration was 10 years old at that point. Like, “Frozen” is “Frozen” — that is the song we wrote. But I think “Skin,” the original version of that, was terrifyingly cool. And no one will ever hear it. It was something were you definitely went, “Wow, this is going to be amazing.” It was a really cool song, period, and it stayed a cool song. But there was something about that first song that was greasy and sexy and gross. It was really weird and I really liked it. The long and short of it is there’s no bad news at all from me where working with her was concerned. I wish her only the best and I’m proud of her for giving them hell all the time.

YES! Thank you very much!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always appreciated Pat Leonard's input on ROL. Lyrically, he and Madonna came up with some real gems. When she worked again with Orbit on Runaway Lover and Amazing, the magic wasn't really there. I've never felt Orbit and Mirwais brought out the best in Madonna's songwriting. 

That said, the demos are bit schizophrenic. It's a miracle that ROL turned out like it did given what she went in with. Orbit really pulled a hat-trick by making these disparate songs into a cohesive album! I can't wait to see what fans do with some of the alternate takes!

The Babyface songs are out of left-field. I can't quite wrap my mind around them since they're 20+ years old and sound it. If I were Madonna, I'd add them to a 25th Anniversary Edition of Bedtime Stories as an iTunes exclusive. She won't do this, but it's a good idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, THE ROSE MIST said:

It is believed Rick produced the ones that leaked previously...

To Have and Not To Hold

Little Star

The Power of Good-bye

No Substitute for Love

Like a Flower

Gone Gone Gone

Revenge

....so does that mean the following tracks were born after W/O joined:

Swim

Ray of Light

Candy Perfume Girl

Shanti

Mer Girl

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, pourhomme80 said:

....so does that mean the following tracks were born after W/O joined:

Swim

Ray of Light

Candy Perfume Girl

Shanti

Mer Girl

 

not sure about the others but I'm certain that William brought her a demo of Ray Of Light which a singer he knew had been working on... i recall it being said that when the singer heard M's final version she was surprised that M had even kept her ad-libs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, cleopatrathatcher said:

not sure about the others but I'm certain that William brought her a demo of Ray Of Light which a singer he knew had been working on... i recall it being said that when the singer heard M's final version she was surprised that M had even kept her ad-libs

ok so another singer was covering Zephryn by Curtis and Maldoon?  Anyone know who?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/6/2019 at 3:28 AM, pourhomme80 said:

I love the Orbit beats but I guess what Im saying is I always thought Orbit was the genius behind the magic of ROL and now im not sure Id give him such a bulk of credit for this album.  Does anyone else feel the same?

Not really. xI get you though. It's a process and many people are involved. 

But don't forget her :lol:  I think she chose at point to not follow the direction we hear on Demo Assembly. It's always her call in the end and Orbit shares the credit with her. He "only" expanded her vision. I think it's fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/6/2019 at 1:39 PM, drownedworld said:

I absolutely get what you are trying to say! Those spiritual/mysterious vibes, that's what makes the album perfect, it makes you have VISIONS, she perfectly said it, this album is DRUG, if you want to know more search "pineal gland", a thing a lot of people has and can be stimulated with music like this, i'm also a Lana Del Rey listener and yes, her music produced by Rick totally gives me the same vibes as ROL, just listen "Salvatore", i'll tell you something since you seem to like all these vibes from ROL, some years ago i was searching a lot of music similar to this album, i asked in a lot of groups about music critics and blah blah, no one ever gave me something similar, but on that group i saw people praising an album by an argentinian rockstar (Gustavo Cerati), i listened the album Bocanada and wow, i really couldn't believe it felt like the Ray Of Light brother! the same ambient/electronic/psychodelia sounds plus the "put your head on my shoulder baby, things ca..." vibes (Bocanada came just 1 year later than ROL) i'd say Gustavo wanted to do something VERY similar to ROL and no one noticed but now i don't know since i listened his first album and it is also psychodelia music, please listen to it, no matter if you don't know spanish, you'll enjoy all the production! and now if you wanna keep reading this bible lol i'll tell you this story some Madonna spanish-speaking fans may know already but the ones of other countries not, also some years later from ROL, a mexican singer (Fey) released a COMPLETE COPYCAT of the ROL album, her album Vertigo, which has a version with all the songs in english, you can search the album art (scans) and compare to ROL and it's even the same position of texts, images, colors, she even tried to make her version of the logo, and the songs are kind of good but not really well done as ROL or Bocanada, by the way that album was a complete flop... listen to it if you want to, it's interesting :)  sorry for typing "vibes" like 7 times.

thank you for this info! i am going to listen to it! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please refer to the following Orbit-produced songs for evidence to the contrary:

All Saints - Black Coffee
All Saints - Pure Shores
William Orbit - Spiral Feat. Kenna & Sugababes

And so much more.

It's too easy to take Orbit for granted and discredit him after so many years of listening.

Ray Of Light would not be the beloved album it is without him. It's as simple as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, billybillybobilly said:

Please refer to the following Orbit-produced songs for evidence to the contrary:

All Saints - Black Coffee
All Saints - Pure Shores
William Orbit - Spiral Feat. Kenna & Sugababes

And so much more.

It's too easy to take Orbit for granted and discredit him after so many years of listening.

Ray Of Light would not be the beloved album it is without him. It's as simple as that.

Exactly. Listening to the demos there is something missing—they all sound aged in their own way. “No Substitute for Love” sounds like it’s on the verge of new age ambient music I’d hear at the massage parlor.

You can hear the seeds of what became ROL throughout though, so it’s an invaluable look into the artistic process.

I kinda love the Babyface tracks, especially “I’ll Be Gone” (was totally expecting it to be “Gone” in demo form). I wonder, were they actually recorded in ‘97, or were these leftovers from ‘94 and she was considering reworking them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

5 hours ago, billybillybobilly said:

Please refer to the following Orbit-produced songs for evidence to the contrary:

All Saints - Black Coffee
All Saints - Pure Shores
William Orbit - Spiral Feat. Kenna & Sugababes

And so much more.

It's too easy to take Orbit for granted and discredit him after so many years of listening.

Ray Of Light would not be the beloved album it is without him. It's as simple as that.

I love the album and Im thankful for what William did.  I guess for me, his follow-up efforts w Madonna werent as exciting for me and I wonder if thats because she didnt ALSO work with Patrick and Rick and ROL is what it is because of ALL of those men, not just William (who usually is the only one credited for ROL) and of course Madonna.  What ive learned from this demo assembly is Madonna contribute quite a bit more that I had originally suspected.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, pourhomme80 said:

 

I love the album and Im thankful for what William did.  I guess for me, his follow-up efforts w Madonna werent as exciting for me and I wonder if thats because she didnt ALSO work with Patrick and Rick and ROL is what it is because of ALL of those men, not just William (who usually is the only one credited for ROL) and of course Madonna.  What ive learned from this demo assembly is Madonna contribute quite a bit more that I had originally suspected.

 

I think ROL set such a high bar?

It really was magical how it came together - timing, personnel, energy.

I happen to love Amazing, for instance, even if it is a little same-y... That bass slaps!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NOTHING REALLY MATTERS stands out, the slower tempo and the harmonies really show a different side to what later became an anthemic song.

HAS TO BE 1 - I like the vocal here, it sounds very intimate, rough yet polished. Probably one of her best vocal moments for me.

HAS TO BE 2 - it's so trippy, I don't feel it 100%, but it slightly shows the direcrion.

FROZEN - it lacks the pizzazz, but still very beautiful. Orbit elevated this into a different dimension.

YOU'LL STAY - beuatiful, the chorus is sublime, the verses lack a bit of direction

SKY FITS HEAVEN - I like the Orbit version, but the core magic is here too.

TO HAVE AND NOT TO HOLD - one of my gaves, in every shape and form.

THE POWER OF GOODBYE - I know it leaked long ago, but it doesn't sound right without the FX effects Orbit added. They could have easily put this as a b-side naming it a "remix" or sth

FLIRTATION DANCE - I like it while it plays, but it's not memorable at all, it's too "same" sounding, not big moments.

NEVER LOVE A STRANGER - it sounds so 1994, reminds me of some Selena song

I'LL BE GONE - the sound of 1994 again, but I understand her trying that sound in 1997. Could have worked with a more modern production approach

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, billybillybobilly said:

I think ROL set such a high bar?

It really was magical how it came together - timing, personnel, energy.

I happen to love Amazing, for instance, even if it is a little same-y... That bass slaps!

I mean i "like" some of their follow-ups - amazing, runaway lover, love spent come to mind immediately.  Im sure there's more but that "magic" from ROL I think was the energy of all those guys coming together.

I also did some more research on Rick Nowels - he's done ALOT of work Mel C - northern star and Dido - White Flag / Life For Rent - are 2 more albums I love that have that atmospheric vibe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I loved hearing the elvolment of ray of light album. 

It one of her best albums. 

Im sure she makes alot of demo songs and turn them into something else in the process

Maybe that is why she made so manny demo songs for rebel heart to use some demo’s for future albums

Some demo sounds finisched like never let you go ...... 

So alway happy to hear demo afther a album 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/6/2019 at 1:11 AM, addictedsober said:

I'm actually on the opposite spectrum

Since the clips for these demos leaked, I felt relieved as they are not (for me) what ray of light represents

Dont get me wront... I LOVE being able to hear them and I love them for what they are... demos! Its amazing to see the process of how one song can evolve and reach its full potential with the right production

Although I see your point... as far as melody and lyrics, most of them remain the same.

But I think the core of this record (ROL) lies on its cohesiveness and trippy-like mood, as well as the enchanting vocals... and thats something to credit Orbit (and M of course)

That! WO was the genious

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/7/2019 at 5:38 PM, pourhomme80 said:

ok so another singer was covering Zephryn by Curtis and Maldoon?  Anyone know who?

Hi,

 

the cover version of Sepheryn was by Clive Maldoon’s niece Christine Leach... she’s credited on Ray Of Light for her input but  didn’t help to write the original track her uncle had recorded. It was her demo that Madonna heard.

 

cheers 

Edited by cleopatrathatcher
Spelling (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Write here...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use