Unfair attacks on Madonna

[NowRadiate 3,331]

I think they are just making some comparisons, some odd.But the fact is the men don't cop the shit that Madonna gets.

 

i may be blind to it but i feel like this statement is being repeated by a lot of people when there is no other good reason to bring forward anymore. "i am doing it because men would be allowed to." i am not so sure about that.

i think most things are just bound to be criticized, no matter if a male of female does them.

 

she does get a lot of shit for ridiculous things, that is very true. but to me, it's also because she is the biggest star in the universe and has stayed on that level forever (which i applaud her for). people are bound to throw shit at her. if a man had reached her level of fame for such a long time, he would have gotten the same shit. look at michael jackson (although he created a lot of the shit himself by just being very, very different, mysterious and somewhat spooky to people).

honestly, i think it all comes with the territory.

there is no male star of her magnitude out there, if you look at her impact on society. which male music artist or actor for that matter has had an impact on society as madonna has? no one.

so i think the whole "a male person would not cop that shit" leads nowhere, from my perspective.

it's a statement left to be repeated by the girls who "push the envelope". 

 

for once, i want to see a guy that really pushes a society-dictated envelope. you would watch him go down and burn in hell. in fact, none of the male celebs has the balls to really challenge anything in society because it's inconvenient. men do succumb to peer pressure much more than females do. #anthropology

[Fighter 28,797]

Men are fragile creatures.....

[groovyguy 63,856]

Seeing Ageism and Sexism Through the Prism of … Madonna

http://mariashriver.com/blog/2015/04/madonna-ageist-sexist-women-matt-jacobi/

Love her or hate her, you have to agree that Madonna works really hard, is a savvy businesswoman and very good at making a public statement. Let’s put her talent of performing and creating a dazzling show aside for a moment and break down how the Material Girl has kept her name a buzz throughout pop culture history for the past 30 years, and why you should take a moment to think about it.

 

Through decades of publicity stunts, magazine covers and now online chatter, Madonna continues to create a sense of controversy, but also what I believe to be an important discussion for our society, especially for women.

 

With her recently released new album, Rebel Heart, Madge is still holding the throne of being the queen at making waves in the press and causing people to roll their eyes (I’ll get to that in a minute). Whether she is flashing her bum on the red carpet, posing topless or falling backwards at The Brit Awards, Madonna’s actions continue to be in the headlines. If you sit back and look at the bigger picture though, there is always a message behind what she does and says, including her oh-so famous provocative ways.

 

Yes, her goal is to sell music (that is a given), but she is also driven to make a statement of some kind to stir up conversation and make people think. Such statements at times, like kissing Britney Spears on stage or releasing her Sex book, may seem unnecessary to some people at first, but in the end, Madonna is doing these things to open up the minds of the current time.

 

Today, seeing two women kiss on television is not that big of deal and being naked or showing skin in the media is practically everywhere. I’m not giving Madonna all the credit in completely revolutionizing the freedom of self-expression, but she certainly has played a big part with just using her own music platform. I believe that is her main focus, and it is something courageous for a person to do. Madonna is always on a mission to revolutionize the way people think. She encourages rebelling against what is considered to be “wrong.†She may come off as the loudest, raunchiest and most daring at times, but if you zero in on what she is trying to communicate, then her actions should take less of the spotlight and her message should take the center stage.

 

What has my mind ticking is the opinionated backlash she (still) gets, especially on social media, for being “too old†to be doing what she does. Not one to keep quiet, Madonna has gone on the defense in recent interviews expressing that she is a victim of ageism and sexism. So, I have to ask, are Madonna’s current provocative ways “not appropriate†for the masses just because she is fifty-six years old? Is it ageism at its best?

 

I think, yes! When Britney, Beyoncé and Gaga are up on stage gyrating, nobody makes a big stink about it, so why is society so hung up on bashing Madonna? Why is there an expiration date for women and their expression of sexuality?

Madonna is also a mother, in impeccable shape, employs many people and has achieved success on many different levels. You would think her drive, talent and healthy physique would be an inspiration. Sure, she can upset people and goes to the extreme in many cases to make a point, but her motive is to get people to create conversation. That is a success all on its own. The more interaction she creates and the more thought provoking she is, the more awareness is in the air. That awakens our minds.

 

Madonna has also been a strong supporter for human rights, equality and numerous charities for decades. That is inspiring to me and those are qualities of somebody with compassion and wanting to make a change.

So, here we are in 2015 and Madonna is still being hated on. It does not make a whole lot of sense to me. She has paved the way for so many young artists and contributed to shifting and bending the norms of society. If the way she went about it was too much for some people, I can understand that, but perhaps the focus should be directed towards her positive intentions and forward thinking.

 

I don’t want to convince people to be Madonna fans because that is not what is important. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion (especially with music). But I do think all the negative words being said about her are overly harsh, and there is a disconnect between how she is viewed and the points she has made.

Society can be so strict about women wanting to express themselves, whether it is through artistic expression, fashion or music. The judgment meter has always been sky-high when it comes to women being bold in history. So I have to again ask. What type of message do you want to give your daughters: to stay quiet, not express what they think, not stand up for themselves and that when a woman reaches a certain age, she must dial down her creative thoughts? That just sounds so backwards to me.

[Fighter 28,797]

Great article, groovy 

[groovyguy 63,856]

Great read on @Madonna and so on point by @SLAwrites

 

 

What’s So Gross About Madonna? Getting Older, It Seems

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/14/what-s-so-gross-about-madonna-getting-older-it-seems.html

Her on-stage, enforced kiss with Drake got her critics worked up again. But is Madonna’s behavior that outrageous, or is sexism at play?

 

Madonna is like glitter—she’s flashy, she gets everywhere, and you’ll never quite get rid of her. After a thirty-year career, eighty singles, two marriages, and four children, she is refusing to vacate the spotlight as women of her age, 56, are expected to do.

 

But lately, she’s been paying the price for sticking around.

 

You can call Madonna "gross" and you can call her a "grandma" but she’s neither. If you really want to see something disgusting that belongs in the Stone Age, look no further than the ageist invective that is currently being hurled at the queen of pop.

 

In the span of a week, Madonna’s stand-up comedy set on The Tonight Show and her smooch ambush of the rapper Drake at Coachella have launched her into the viral stratosphere once again, and the backlash this time around has been brutal.

 

She’s “twice his age,†said The Daily Mail of her brief make-out session with Drake. That particular bit of arithmetic appears in almost every story about the stunt.

 

“50 Shades of Granny,†tweeted Piers Morgan, age 50. He tweeted at Drake, too, telling him that he â€œcan’t think of anything worse†than getting kissed by Madonna. Maybe he never watched his own talk show.

 

On social media, Madonna was quickly painted as some sort of vampiric succubuswho drains the life force out of younger stars. It’s the same metaphor that gets trotted out every time Madonna locks lips with a fellow celeb, whether it’s withBritney Spears and Christina Aguilera at the 2003 VMAS or with Nicki Minajbackstage on her birthday.

 

Her endearingly amateur stand-up routine on Fallon fared little better on the Internet with commenters quickly pouncing on her outfit, her age, and her blithe attitude toward dating younger men.

 

All of this anti-Madonna noise begs an important question. Who’s acting more like a senior citizen in this situation: the woman who can still pull off an extendeddance routine without running out of breath, or the crotchety twentysomething who can barely eke out 140 characters of criticism while lying in bed?

 

The insistence that an aging Madge get out of our sight is due, in part, to a pop culture cycle that can no longer seem to tolerate anyone beyond their fifteen minutes of fame. From “Holiday†to that unforgettable moment when she handed her panties to David Letterman, Madonna enjoyed a whole decade in the public eye as America’s openly sexual pop princess. On one hand, it seems almost cosmically unfair for her to receive airtime alongside, and even instead of, the shorter-lived imitators she helped to spawn.

 

But the bulk of the vitriol that Madonna faces is the product of a sexist double standard that comes down hard on middle-aged women.

Men Madonna’s age are allowed to be sexy despite their wrinkles and graying hair. Sean Connery was 59 and bald when he won People’s Sexiest Man Alive in 1989. Richard Gere, Harrison Ford, and Nick Nolte all took home the same honor in their 50s.

 

Meanwhile, Esquire has never handed out Sexiest Woman Alive to anyone over the age of 42.

 

The only way that middle-aged women successfully maintain their sexy cachet past 45 is by obeying certain standards of behavior and decorum.

 

Dame Helen Mirren, 69, can raise her eyebrow at a younger man at the end of her new L'Oréal ad but if she ever dated someone as young as A-Rod, we would quit calling her “classy†in a heartbeat.

 

Famous men in Mirren’s age bracket tend to dip a few decades deep into the younger end of dating pool, but women have to choose between younger men and their reputation.

 

As Ellen told Madonna during a recent interview, “Men date younger women all the time and no one says anything about it. What’s wrong with women dating younger men?â€

 

But not only does Madonna date younger men, she publicly fantasizes about it in interviews. She wears thigh-high boots and wields her pelvis like a weapon.

 

And it’s precisely this brazen sexuality that opens her up to disgustingly specific bodily insults about her â€œsaggy ass†and her â€œancient,†cobweb-filled vagina. For women, the penalty for refusing to age according to societal expectations is that society ages you.

You’re allowed to be as young as you feel until you act like it. Age is just a number until that number is 50.

 

Madonna herself has recognized this ageist resistance to her brand in a recent interview.

“They’re judging me by my age,†she told Rolling Stone in February. “I don’t understand. I’m trying to get my head around it. Because women, generally, when they reach a certain age, have accepted that they’re not allowed to behave a certain way. But I don’t follow the rules. I never did, and I’m not going to start.â€

 

For a pop star of her years, the difference between being seen as a cougar and being dismissed as desperate is displaying a libido instead of accepting a rapid rate of diminishing returns as a sexual object. It’s the fact that Madonna still wants to, let’s say, express herself in her 50s that makes it impossible for her to remain respectable.

 

But perhaps it’s the persistent image of Madonna as a succubus that reveals the true root of our reflexive disgust with her escapades. In hindsight, Medusa: Dare to Be Truthful, the 1991 parody of her famous tour documentary Madonna: Truth or Dare, has an almost prescient name.

 

Like Medusa, Madonna has come to symbolize our culture’s fear of active, all-consuming female sexuality.

 

Freud equated the classical fear of Medusa with the “terror of castration†at the sight of the “terrifying genitals of the Mother,†and it’s hard not to see a similar dynamic at work in our thinly-veiled fear of Madonna as an unapologetically sexual, 56-year-old mother of four.

In fact, the Madonna-Medusa connection is already being made on Twitter with a frequency that suggests that she might be more subconsciously threatening to some than she is just plain “gross.â€

 

Unlike Medusa, however, it seems impossible to ever defeat Madonna. The more people bemoan her persistence, the more attention she receives, and the more power she accrues. She’s an icon who can subsist forever on the fuel of her own inevitability.

 

As she wrote on Instagram following the Drake kiss: “If you don’t like me and still watch everything I do. Bitch, you’re a fan.â€

 

So maybe it’s time to give up on telling Madonna to go away and ask ourselves where, exactly, we want her to go and why. Do we really only have the time of day for pop stars in the prime of life, or can we make some room for the sometimes embarrassing, often lascivious, and always interesting queen of reinvention herself?

[Queen 572]

This thread is called 'Unfair Attacks on Madonna' for a reason. If what's posted here or the thread itself is offensive to you, please do not read this thread!

 

Thank again Groovyguy for sharing these great articles!!!!

 

   

[Queen 572]

Step aside, haters. Madonna is having the last laugh. Again.

 

So true.

 

Step aside you haters!!

[groovyguy 63,856]

A fantastic article!!

 

Madonna, misogyny and the menopause

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/madonna-misogyny-and-the-menopause-332252.html#.VWB8BIt4GvM.twitter

 

Suzanne Harrington takes a fan’s approach to hunting out the the elephant in the room. Madonna, she says has highlighted the fact that women after 50 are regarded as cultural castrati and should leave the sexual arena quietly — and to the young and beautiful.

 

 

RECENTLY on stage at Coachella, during the performance of a track titled ‘Bitch I’m Madonna’, there was an Ageist Kissing Incident. The pop queen of the same name (age 56, album sales 300 million) gave Canadian rapper Drake (age 28, album sales five million) an unscripted kiss — not a peck on the cheek, but an actual snog.

 

The rapper’s reaction was viscerally ungracious; it was as though he had been licked by ebola, his face curling in disgust as he wiped his hand across his mouth. Afterwards, having realised his epic faux pas, he backtracked on Twitter: “Don’t misinterpret my shock!! I got to make out with the queen Madonna and I feel 100 about that forever.†(100? What? Years old?)

 

But it was not so much the initial cloddish, uncouth reaction of the rapper as the wider response afterwards which howled of ageism and misogyny. Screams of ‘ugh’ echoed around the internet. An older woman had kissed a younger man — not like Mrs Robinson, or anything Oedipal, but just straightforward, age-irrelevant sexual intent — at least, for on-stage purposes anyway.

 

Piers Morgan waded straight in: “So Drake proves that kissing Madonna is about as ghastly as I always thought it would be.†(To which another tweeter crisply replied, “Stop crying. Nobody wants to kiss you.â€)

 

Madonna was unimpressed, swiftly telling one fan, “Don’t kiss Drake. No matter how many times he begs you toâ€. Marilyn Manson added some ghoulish gallantry in i-D magazine by suggesting that Madonna “looks hotter than ever. I’d also like to let it be known that I still have a crush on Madonna and I would definitely fornicate with her.†Madonna’s response? “Um, thanks.â€

 

This might all sound like a snog in a teacup, were it not representative of wider social attitudes. Madonna is a menopausal woman (or at least we presume she is, as she is biologically the right age), and menopausal women are cultural castrati. Display overt sexuality at your peril, ladies, and prepare to be tarred and feathered both online and off, with calls of put it away, Grandma go home, stop embarrassing your children, act your age, that’s disgusting, ewwww.

Here’s the thing. We allow a certain kind of middle aged female sexuality. Discreet, implied, covered up — but even by our forties our sexual selves become labelled as ‘cougar’, with all the predatory baggage that word entails.

 

This does not happen to men. So when Madonna, at a calendar age regarded as clinically dead when it comes to raunch, prances her sexuality the same as she has always done, she incurs that special kind of wrath reserved for women who refuse to yield to what is expected of them.

 

Interestingly, it’s not just the Piers Morgans or the twitchfork mobs shouting at Madonna to put it away. Some of her most vociferous critics have been feminists. When she got her nipples out — yes, aged 56 — for Interview magazine, Camille Paglia wrote in The Times how Madonna was “putting herself on the front line of an increasingly toxic war between young and middle-aged women. It is a fight she cannot win and she should learn to age well.â€

 

Paglia continued that older women using Photoshop were a disservice to feminism: “The ultimate issue here is the media-fuelled nuclear arms race being waged between middle-aged women and the young women whose dewy nubility they vampirically covet. This is a war that ageing women can never win: cruel time conquers all.â€

 

Or as an online commentator at Billboard magazine said of Madonna’s Interview shoot: “Those who find these ridiculous photos ‘hot’ are necrophiliac.â€

 

Necrophiliac? Yikes. Madonna, as her job requires, looks better than most 36-year-olds, never mind 56-year-olds. Hers is not a typical 56-year-old face and body, thanks to mountains of work, internal and otherwise.

 

Yet Paglia urges her to follow convention, to “learn to age wellâ€. That she is ‘competing’ with younger women over the prize of youth. What old-school nonsense. Why should you ever retire your sexuality because a calendar says so? Has anyone told similarly aged George Clooney, Lenny Kravitz, Brad Pitt, Antonio Banderas and all the other men we regard as sexy without making vomiting noises because they are over 50?

 

Or as Madonna herself asked Jonathan Ross in 1992, when she was 34, “Is there a rule? Are people just supposed to die when they’re 40?â€, crossly adding, “That’s just stupid.â€

 

Obviously, no matter how hot someone is, age and generation has some influence. Madonna is not on my teenage daughter’s pop radar. BBC Radio 1,which appeals to a pop audience aged 15-30, caused a fuss in February when it refused to play tracks from her new album, based on her age and “relevance†to that age group (she’s not alone — they don’t play Kylie or Robbie Williams either). Her fans are older, and have grown up with her since her 1982 debut.

But this is not about pop, it’s about female sexuality and its built-in obsolescence. We have long decided that once a woman is no longer biologically fertile, she is no longer sexually desirable.

 

Check out how Hollywood casts female actors the same age as male actors to play their mothers. Older woman sexuality is almost regarded as a perversion (see the “necrophiliac†comment above). And Madonna, putting her best nipples forward, is challenging this clapped-out perception as only she can.

 

As someone who has long confronted dominant perceptions head on, initially helping to change our view of ‘feminist’ from bra-burner to bra-flaunter, she has always been subversive, operating from inside the corporate poptocracy.

She didn’t just prance about singing pop tunes — she has always been vocal about equality for women and gay men, her greatest fanbase. And now that she is older, she shows no signs of toning herself down until she is ready, rather than acquiescing to society’s wishes.

 

Could this pushing against the conservative boundaries of supposed end-stage, public, female sexuality (fellow performers Cher and Tina Turner never quite thrust like Madonna), make her a pioneer of the as-yet unknown cultural phenomenon, the hot menopausal minx?

 

We are all living far longer these days — do women really have to spend the second half of their lives pretending they are not still hot to trot?

 

“Of course women in their 50s are still sexual, but their sexualities, one would hope, have advanced beyond that professed by 20-year-olds,†writes Meghan Murphy in her Feminist Current blog. “And I wish, in her efforts to (supposedly) push boundaries, that Madonna would push past the conventional, inauthentic, superficial performance of sexuality presented by objectified 20-year-old girls. She knows better, I’m sure.â€

 

Again, the should-know-better argument. We remain conditioned to categorise and pigeonhole anything connected with women, age and sexuality.

 

“Women are still the most marginalised group,†Madonna told Out magazine. “They’re still the group that people won’t let change.â€

 

Perhaps her most authentic menopausal admission was during a recent interview — again with Jonathan Ross — when she spoke about her feelings of loss when her own teenage daughter moved out. A deeper loss than anything romantic, she said.

 

She may be world’s most successful female pop star, a cultural phenomenon, who, three decades into her career continues to challenge our ideas of female sexuality (her music is secondary, frankly), but she still acknowledges the ordinary everyday loss of children growing up and leaving.

 

Of all the incarnations of Madonna, perhaps Menopausal Madonna will help smash the last barriers for women — sex, ageing, and our real place in the world.

[Catastrophe 63]

I've seen some attacks because of the reschuled dates of Rebel Heart Tour and i get it, but it would be EVEN worse if she cancelled the tour- which it didn't happen. So, i get it but at the same time i don't. I think you're okay to complain, but calling her a bitch and whatever it's just too much. 

[Fighter 28,797]

"Her fans are older, and have grown up with her since her 1982 debut."

 

 

Im tired of this misconception tbh. Yes some 80s fans stuck with her but so did fans who became fans in the 90s, and in the 00s. 

[wtg1987 10,151]

I find it ironic that she complains about ageism and yet she seems to only associate herself in dating and socialising with young people ? Is that not ageist then ?? 

[Angelo 5,712]

"Her fans are older, and have grown up with her since her 1982 debut."

 

 

Im tired of this misconception tbh. Yes some 80s fans stuck with her but so did fans who became fans in the 90s, and in the 00s. 

I'm not old

I'm 22 o.O

[Fighter 28,797]

I find it ironic that she complains about ageism and yet she seems to only associate herself in dating and socialising with young people ? Is that not ageist then ?? 

 

life is a paradox and it doesnt make much sense 

[Melrose95 172]

I was born in October 1982, same month Everybody cane out, so I hardly grew up with her in the 80s as I was too young to remember anythingMy first memories of her was the LAP controversy of 1989 and then came the massive overexposure, when I became a fan at 7/8, of 1990Mere words can't describe Madonna's pop culture take over of that yearI would go to the supermarket up the street to help my Mom with groceries once a week and EVERY damn magazine had her on the cover, be it the supermarket tabloids, National Enquirer, Star, Globe, News Extra etc, People, Entertainment Weekly, Newsweek, fashion mags like Cosmo and Hardee's Bazaar, hair mags, political mags like The New Republic! teeny bopper mags like Super teen, YM and Tiger Beat and even movie mags, thanks to Dick Tracy, like Premiere and Cinefantastique.Just insaneI hate to bring up other acts, but Taylor Swift right now was NOTHING compared to Madonna from about 89-92

[groovyguy 63,856]

Great article by Pitchfork on how society fears female artists. Madonna is mentioned too, of course. 

 

We martyr women because we fear their greatness.

 

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/808-amy-winehouse-kurt-cobain-and-the-gendering-of-martyrdom/

 

Women who succeed in a big way upset convention, and we haven’t yet figured out how to deal with that as a culture. When women succeed as Winehouse did, we anticipate their downfall and pounce hard, relish the sillage of failure when we get a whiff. It’s coded into our public expectations of women even before this happens, from the recent takedown of Beyonce over her admittedly paltry diet announcement to the everyday thinkpiece about Madonna’s age (even as The Who, AC/DC, The Replacements, Bono, Bruce Springsteen, and hundreds of other male artists that are all older than her continue to tour without criticism). We martyr our women because we fear their greatness. We do so because we fear women who are living out of bounds.

[Queen 572]

Great article by Pitchfork on how society fears female artists. Madonna is mentioned too, of course. 

 

We martyr women because we fear their greatness.

 

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/808-amy-winehouse-kurt-cobain-and-the-gendering-of-martyrdom/

 

Women who succeed in a big way upset convention, and we haven’t yet figured out how to deal with that as a culture. When women succeed as Winehouse did, we anticipate their downfall and pounce hard, relish the sillage of failure when we get a whiff. It’s coded into our public expectations of women even before this happens, from the recent takedown of Beyonce over her admittedly paltry diet announcement to the everyday thinkpiece about Madonna’s age (even as The Who, AC/DC, The Replacements, Bono, Bruce Springsteen, and hundreds of other male artists that are all older than her continue to tour without criticism). We martyr our women because we fear their greatness. We do so because we fear women who are living out of bounds.

 

 

Amen.

[Damondogg1 6]

I have only one snipe and it's my opinion so please don't execute me ;)First it's obvious that Madonna is not irrelevant. In regards to ageism, Madonna is a little ageist herself. To me she says yes you can still be relevant at 56 but you have to look 35. It would be more provocative if she dressed and behaved the same but let dome lines come through. I truly believe that considering her lifestyle she would not have that many lines. But it would be great to see her natural. Remember IMO 😘

[Fighter 28,797]

I have only one snipe and it's my opinion so please don't execute me ;)First it's obvious that Madonna is not irrelevant. In regards to ageism, Madonna is a little ageist herself. To me she says yes you can still be relevant at 56 but you have to look 35. It would be more provocative if she dressed and behaved the same but let dome lines come through. I truly believe that considering her lifestyle she would not have that many lines. But it would be great to see her natural. Remember IMO

 

her message would be way more impactful if she would let herself be more natural. However its not my place to tell her how to live, but I do agree with you

[groovyguy 63,856]

http://www.inquisitr.com/2252446/madonna-and-janet-jackson-prove-sexism-and-ageism-is-still-rampant/#b5ZI7FH7jFOtSMTt.99

Madonna And Janet Jackson Prove Sexism And Ageism Is Still Rampant

A couple months back, Madonna was criticized for comparing ageism to racism and homophobia. She spoke about the issue to Rolling Stone.

 

“No one would dare to say a degrading remark about being black or dare to say a degrading remark on Instagram about someone being gay. But my age – anybody and everybody would say something degrading to me. And I always think to myself, why is that accepted? What’s the difference between that and racism, or any discrimination?â€

 

Madonna may want to view Instagram more, where there are plenty of racist and homophobic posts. However, Madonna certainly has a point as well. In our society, racism and homophobia is generally looked down on. Ageism (and even sexism) seems to be widely accepted.

 

 

Artists like Bruce Springsteen, Mick Jagger, Iggy Pop, and others can completely get away with being sexual and “not acting their age.†If they date much younger women, they are generally looked upon favorably. When Madonna or Demi Moore do it, they are “cougars.â€

 

Janet Jackson has a lot in common with Madonna. While Ms. Jackson has spoken out against Madonna in the past, she has a lot more in common with Madonna than she wants to believe. Case in point: Her new “comeback†single “No Sleeep†was critically acclaimed, but shunned by radio stations. It debuted at No. 67 and dropped off the charts the next week.

 

Madonna’s whole album Rebel Heart is her most critically acclaimed album in 10 years. But it has been completely ignored by mainstream radio. She pulled a Hot 100 hit recently with “Bit*h I’m Madonna,†but that’s mostly because the video has received millions of views. Madonna has been brutally bashed recently because of her age. The same for Janet. An article by Robert Paul Reyes of the Student Operated Press had some harsh words for Jackson on Tuesday.

 

“Even if Janet Jackson had an ‘accidental’ wardrobe-malfuncion, exposing her nether regions, it wouldn’t help her move merchandise. Jackson’s single No Sleeep is a snoozer, and the album from which it comes from is as effective as Propofol in inducing sleep. Jackson might as well fall into external sleep, she’s a tired and played-out old lady.â€

 

Articles like this, which appear too many times to degrade women based on their age, should be of concern — even to millennials who will, one day, be over 40 and called “old.†There are certainly reasons one could criticize Janet Jackson and her new single. However, just like her race, her age should not be a factor.

 

The next time you are on Twitter or Facebook and a friend of yours criticizes a woman for being old, too veiny, or even suggests that she “acts her age,†you should not be silent. Unless more people speak up about this issue, our society (and especially women like Janet Jackson who work hard enough to live past a certain age) will suffer.

[groovyguy 63,856]

Madonna Turns 57 And The Media Wants Her To Feel Ashamed

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2334669/madonna-turns-57-and-the-media-wants-her-to-feel-ashamed/#00MwDcped7eR3EEZ.99

Many of her contemporaries (or past stars who shared the same level of fame) have died of drug overdoses, but Madonna is turning 57 years old this weekend. For most, turning 57 is a celebration. For Madonna, it’s an excuse for the media to mock her, shame her, and make her feel that the only way she will be accepted is if she gains 50 pounds, wears a flower dress, and eats bonbons all day while catching old episodes of The Golden Girls.

 

You see, the problem to many people is that Madonna simply doesn’t “act her age.†Madonna had something to say to those people when she was interviewed by Entertainment Tonight.

 

“I am acting my age. This is me, this is how I wanna be. I can do what I want, OK?… There’s no rules, and people should just leave me alone. Let me do what I wanna do. I shouldn’t be limited by my age or a number.â€

 

Never mind that people rarely produce the same vitriol aimed at Madonna for Mick Jagger, who was seen putting a microphone in his pants during a Los Angeles concert in 2013. Bruce Springsteen hasn’t had anything that can be considered even close to being a hit since 1997’s “Secret Garden,†but nobody told him to “put it away†when he did a pelvic thrust towards a camera operator at the 2009 Super Bowl. Let’s not even get into Anthony Kiedis being almost half naked at the 2014 Super Bowl.

 

“But they have talent and Madonna doesn’t†is usually what you will hear from her critics to justify their ageism and misogyny. Considering Madonna writes her own melodies, her own lyrics, and is the top-selling female artist in music history, that statement itself is misogynist. Besides, there’s a lot of proof when it comes to Madonna’s talent. She’s a great vocalist, a great songwriter, and an amazing live performer.

 

Not all of the criticism towards Madonna is ageist. Michael Arceneaux from VH1 wrote a passionate essay about why Madonna’s late career problems go beyond ageism. The essay brings up some valid points that Madonna’s die-hard fans want to ignore. Then, there was that performance with Drake at Coachella in April. Though it’s likely that Drake purposely used the event to age-shame Madonna and make himself look good, Madonna might just as well have worn a “Kick Me!†sign. The performance was embarrassing and it had nothing to do with her age.

 

It’s also not wrong to criticize Madonna’s musical output since 2008: Even though MDNA or Hard Candy weren’t bad albums, they just didn’t live up to Madonna’s standards. They are three-and-a-half star albums that get put down a lot because Madonna is used to making four-star albums. However, 2015’s Rebel Heart, for the most part, is an absolute return to form and even music reviewers agree.

 

Madonna’s critics will point to the low sales of the Rebel Heart album to convince the world that Madonna is “over with.†However, the fact that an album that leaked and was widely available for downloading three months before its official release can still sell almost one million copies worldwide proves that Madonna is still the Queen of Pop. Many supposed “artists†over the years have threatened to take over her throne, but Madonna is always the one standing tall (even though she is physically short) in the end.

[Fighter 28,797]

People rationalize ageism exactly the same way previous generations used to rationalize racism. It's the "natural order of things". When you argue this point they enter a strong denial zone. It's true, we must not stay silent! 

[groovyguy 63,856]

TeamID intelligent thinking at it's best.

 

 

live fast, die old: is ageism pop culture's final frontier?

Full Article @ https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/live-fast-die-old-ageism-and-pop-cultures-final-frontier

 

"Old is the new young." It's been a favoured headline around the fashion media-scape this year, and like most trend declarations something of an empty promise. It's not that the pro-ageing efforts of the fashion houses of the world haven't been commendable: Joan Didion (80) for Céline, Joni Mitchell (71) for Saint Laurent, Sicilian grandmothers for Dolce & Gabbana, Iris Apfel (94) for Kate Spade, Cher (69) for Marc Jacobs, Donatella Versace (60) for Givenchy, and Madonna (57) for Versace. But despite the industry's zeitgeist alerts, outside of fashion this new age of old age seems to remain a mirage. In that real world, female-oriented ageism is alive and well, discreetly practised and rarely discussed. Russell Crowe wasn't entirely wrong when, earlier this year, he said that actresses over 40, who complain they can't get roles, still want to "play the ingénue, and can't understand why she's not being cast as the 21-year-old." What he doesn't understand is that few good parts are being written for women over 40. Similarly - excluding this year's campaigns - it's hard to find women of a certain age in most fashion magazines, and when they're featured in the tabloid media it always seems to be about 'looking good for their age'.

 

It's a youth-centric culture that teaches young people to fear age, disdain it, and worse, ridicule it. Indeed, we seem to be most comfortable with women over 50 when they're in one of those campaigns, styled in the context of a cool fashion brand like some theatrical character. And while the natural eccentricity that often comes with age should be hailed like that, the tribute appears to stop there. Once older women go out there on their own terms, they risk crossing society's elusive borderlines of what's considered 'age-appropriate'. Cases in point: the skimpy dressers of pop culture including Madonna, Mariah Carey, Sharon Stone, Kris Jenner, and Ivana Trump. 'Age appropriate' is a hate term of mine. Why? Because it belittles women older and wiser than the people who use it, as if they were teenage girls in sexually inappropriate hemlines and too much make-up. If I were a woman, I would hate to make it to 50 only to be told I couldn't wear whatever I felt good in. "Sexiness is about attitude and being able to be yourself without judgment from other people," Luella Bartley (41) of Hillier Bartley tells me. "As you get older you start to understand yourself and your body and what makes you feel sexy. It's just a shame that it's also the age when you get slapped down and told that ageing is ugly and lazy."

 

This year, Bartley founded the label Hillier Bartley alongside Katie Hillier (40), with the desire to create clothes for their own age group, i.e. clothes that women over forty want to wear rather than what anyone thinks they should be wearing. "You should be able to wear anything at any age. It's not so much putting rules on it, it's that you change," Bartley says. Society's criticism of middle-aged women in the spotlight isn't just aimed at appearances, but an overriding view of how they're meant to be behaving. A few months ago, I asked Marilyn Manson who he thought was relevant right now. "I'm kind of interested in this Madonna record," he said, referring to her then-upcoming album, Rebel Heart. "I'd say that's one record I'm looking forward to hearing when it comes to relevance. She looks hotter than ever. I still have a crush on Madonna and I would definitely fornicate with her." You could say it was one music industry 'elder' empathising with another, but knowing the astute mind of Manson - 46 and promoting his first critically acclaimed album in years - the loaded social importance of his statement went way beyond its sexual candy coating.

 

It struck a nerve with me, not least in the sad spring that followed where Madonna would be ridiculed by the media as a 50-something dinosaur, who falls off stages (Brit Awards), forces young singers to snog her (Drake), and - God forbid - dresses all sexy like she's in her twenties (always). Weeks after my conversation with Manson, Madonna put his quote on social media. She'd had some intense months, branding Radio 1 "ageist" after they refused to add her new single to their playlists. "The tracks are chosen on musical merit and their relevance to our young audience on a case-by-case basis," the station said in a statement, adding that they were still playing artists such as Sir Paul McCartney (73 - and male), who had of course just released a single with Rihanna (27) and Kanye West (38). "We've made so many advances in other areas - civil rights, gay rights - but ageism is still an area that's taboo," Madonna commented. "No one seems to want her to succeed," her producer Diplo (36) would later argue. "Her song Ghosttown was a guaranteed number one for anybody else, but she didn't get a fair shot. It already sucks to be a woman in the music industry, but to be a boss woman is even harder."

 

"Strong women are always perceived as being bitches or egomaniacs," Christopher Kane (32), one of fashion's most pro-age designers, tells me. "If it was me, it would be like, 'Oh he's so strong and powerful. He's a great guy.' And when is that going to stop? You get better with age. You do. Old women can wear mini skirts. The world is not going to fall apart." I can't help but wonder why pop culture's all-important stamp of relevance is exclusively given to young entertainers with no significant cultural or social achievements behind them, when Madonna, who revolutionised gender roles in popular culture, fronted post-70s feminism, and challenged the taboo of sex in the public forum, is being dismissed as 'try-hard' and 'desperate to be young'? (I won't give page time to the actual headlines, but it only takes a brief look at the internet to find them.) I debated Madonna endlessly with people this year, and the general public opinion shocked me. It echoed the words of comedienne Cecily Strong, who, in her roast of him during the Correspondents' Dinner in April, jokingly told President Obama: "You're a lot like Madonna. You've both given this country so much, but in, like, a year and a half, you gotta stop."

 

It was funny, but the sentiment was kind of dark. It's the popular notion that people's old age somehow pollutes their legacy, and that your age prohibits you from doing - or wearing or saying - certain things. Why wouldn't we want great musical talent to keep producing and performing for as long as they're alive, the way we expect- for instance- designers to? For Madonna, the answer sadly lies in the gender discrimination she's spent her career battling. When she appears in a Versace campaign, she's promoting Versace. When she appears on a red carpet, dressed in one of those daring outfits she's always worn, she's promoting herself. And that, apparently, makes her 'desperate'. "You should always dress or behave in a way, which is appropriate to your personal lifestyle," Sir Paul Smith (69) says when I ask him about Madonna. "I hate the idea of dressing 'young' because you think it makes you feel better, but it's basically her own personal ways of marketing. If Louise Bourgeois were naked you probably wouldn't say anything because she's an artist, whereas Madonna has always been so self-promotional you think it's inappropriate," he argues. "But if you look at Iggy Pop, he's still got a bare torso. So much of it is subjective."

 

Transfer that theory to one of pop culture's most vilified women, Kris Jenner (59) and it rings even truer. While the Kardashian matriarch is also criticised for dressing too young, the ageism targeted at her seems to primarily concern itself with her youthful outlook: her frivolous conversations with her children, her young friends, and her so-called 'toy boy', Corey Gamble (34). "It's not about being old, it's about the spirit," her friend, Balmain's Olivier Rousteing (29) tells me. "Kris, you can talk to her about pop culture, young people, old singers. She's really open-minded, she's always keeping her eyes on the new world, and she's not a follower. She knows who's going to be cool and who's not, and that's a matter of age, but she keeps young because she's surrounded by young people." When, in an episode of her TV show, Kim Kardashian told Jenner she was too old to join a pole dancing class, Jenner retorted, "What am I supposed to do, sit at home and knit?" For those who think women such as Jenner and Madonna should be acting more 'their age', it's a good question, really. Should Madonna shelve her raunchy dance tracks and take to sitting on a bar stool singing ballad medleys, fur-clad and bejewelled like some millennial Marlene Dietrich? She already did that, 25 years ago.

 

In a post-feminist world closer to equality than ever, classic views and expectations of age are no longer realistic. Unless you're a teenager, there is no such thing as acting or dressing your age, because society - much in the example of Kris Jenner - now gives us the privilege of spiritual agelessness. Youth, in other words, is no longer reserved for the young. Perhaps this is the reason society - still hopelessly obsessed with youth - gets down on those past 50, who refuse to swap their mini-skirts for a stretchy mum jean, like some valiant age rights group giving youth back the young. But isn't there enough youthfulness to go around? Surely, if the 20-somethings - so eager to be taken seriously - could borrow some wisdom from the 50-somethings, they'd jump at the chance? Instead of writing off people like Madonna as desperate to be relevant, we should rejoice in the fact that her youthful disposition will keep her around for longer so she can keep inspiring generations to come. In ancient times, if you wanted to learn something new, you went to the oldest person in the tribe - not the youngest. And perhaps that notion is part of the same fashion industry waves that put those 50-plus women in campaigns this year.

 

With social media exposing every inch of newness to the world on a daily basis, fashion - historically dependant on youth culture and underground scenes - could be struggling to actually identify emerging subcultures - if indeed they even exist anymore. And while we're all desperately stalking the 20-year-olds, trying to uncover some elusive trend, the real newness is being created slowly and confidently by those over 40, who've been there and done that, and are liberated from the crowd-pleasing trend sheep mentality that social media in many cases instils in young people today. Maybe people over 40 are the rebels of the 2010s: a counter-culture of a new world? According to Charlie Le Mindu (28), multi-artist and hairdresser-gone-couturier, that's already the case. "On old ladies, fashion is important," he says, referring to the real senior segment, much older than 50. "You know when you go to Knightsbridge and you see those old ladies? They don't give a shit. They just wear everything, and they look like freaks again. They're a big inspiration to me. A young woman wearing the new cool stuff is not going to inspire me, because they all look the same."

The introduction of older women in fashion campaigns this year is a huge step towards to a less ageist social spirit, but it doesn't cancel out the need for a revolution. Celebrating middle-aged women in the spotlight shouldn't be a passing trend like they're some kind of showpiece pool sandal, 'so wrong it's right'. They should be celebrated alongside the young generation for whom they paved the way, forever relevant not just because of their icon status but because their talent, in tune with their minds, evolves into new levels of expression equally as relevant to pop culture as what they did in their youth. "Young rebellion is full of angst and energy, and older rebellion is a real kind of personal don't-give-a-shit-about-what's-going-on," Luella Bartley says. "You become so comfortable in your skin that you just do what you want. Younger rebellion just feels so much more self-conscious. Older rebellion feels more real." At 57, Madonna's current age revolution might just be her greatest gift to future generations of women. And in the words of Marilyn Manson, she'll look hotter than ever doing it.

[kesiak 3,032]

I used to think it would be more powerful of Madonna to "age naturally" as well. The thing is though - it's her choice and her decision and it would not change anything about the way she's being perceived by the media and general public. She's a woman who used sex in her work and therefore will forever be seen as a talentless albeit media savvy bimbo by many, face lifted or not. Western society struggles greatly with the idea that a woman can be sexual AND smart. There's no winning solution in this game - if you get something done you're ridiculed for being desperate. If you don't, you'll be ridiculed for letting yourself go.

 

There's also no template for a career like hers - there's never been a star which such staying power and such relevance who would also be so unapologetic about her success. People either end up in rehab, Oprah's couch crying about their childhood/abusive husband/etc, die or simply silently fade into obscurity - all these things being an apology of sorts that society expects for the fame and fortune they dared to gain. Someone like Madonna, who's never apologised for her achievements and is refusing to "go away" is making people uncomfortable. 

 

I've come to realisation that what Madonna is doing these days is actually brilliant - she's doing what she's always done, not giving a shit about what others think, trying to look her best and having a ball at the same time. Good for her. People should pay more attention to their own sorry lives - I don't see how the state of Madonna's, Uma Thurman's or Renée Zellweger's face impacts on anyone's daily routine and why it should be of anyone's concern. 

[BillyBongo 227]

It's kind of sad, when I became a fan after Vogue, I quickly became obsessed with Madonna and started reading articles in newspapers about her. Cut to 2 years later, 1992, and the level of hate directed at her by the British tabloids was ridiculous. I still remember the cover of the Sun newspaper with the caption, Madonna, those obscene photos inside...followed by a picture of a topless woman on the next page... It seemed to go on forever and it wasn't really till Evita/Ray of Light that it let up.

What I find sad is that this "agesim" thing is not something thats going to go away, it's not like she's  whipped her tits out at a fashion show or rubbed anyone up the wrong way, it's just genuine intolerance, and as much as I love Madonna, I don't see her recovering from this one.  :1f614:

[groovyguy 63,856]

Detecting hypocrisy in Madonna-bashers

Sneetches and freaks

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2015/oct/21/detecting-hypocrisy-madonna-bashers/#

 

The women were gathered around a table. Their hands remained at their sides while their eyes indulged in lingering gazes at the arrangement of appetizers: cheeses, fruit, bread, and hot spanakopita bites, whose consistency of form broadcast their frozen origin. Eventually, one of the women — young, wispy — reached down, lightly secured a sliver of red pepper, waved it over some hummus, brought it to her lips and nibbled daintily, slowly, as though it would have been crass to be seen taking too large a bite.

 

There was only one person at this art-related function whom I had met before, but I didn’t know her well. Not that it mattered, as she had already walked away, leaving me the task of trying to not appear awkward as I continued to stand there and appreciate the fact that I wasn’t hungry. I wasn’t in the mood to be scrutinized; the way these women watched — their eyes probing here and there, swiftly darting up and down — made me want to slink away and disappear behind the nearest tree trunk.

 

I gave up on plotting my escape and turned my attention back to my fellow ladies. Two of them were now discussing their workout routines. One preferred yoga, but only the sweaty kind; the other was into CrossFit. They spoke about toning and looking good in their swimsuits, an ongoing concern, especially with this endless summer San Diego seems to be having.

 

At the mention of swimsuits, a third woman joined the fray. “I don’t have the same bikini body I used to have,†she said. “But you know what? I’m okay with how I look, because I’ve had children. I earned these stretch marks and sags!†The other women nodded in approval. But I disagreed.

 

“I don’t think you have to earn feeling fine about yourself,†I said. “It’s a decision you can make at any time. It’s ridiculous to think that we can’t be happy with ourselves unless we’ve paid some kind of price.â€

 

The mother nodded in acquiescence. She turned the conversation to magazines and the unrealistic standard of beauty they present. We all agreed how terrible it is that companies make billions by convincing us it’s impossible for us to be really happy unless we look like a Photoshopped version of ourselves, and then hawking products purported to help us achieve such a narrow and impossible definition of beauty. 

The mother cited the statistic that girls are developing eating disorders by the time they’re eight years old, and then she shared a story about her own daughter, who at four years old is already worried about her baby fat. There was much tsking and shaking of heads. “How are we supposed to instill confidence in our kids?â€

 

I brought up the New York artist Caroline Caldwell, who is credited for a new proverb making the rounds online: “In a society that profits from self-doubt, it is a rebellious act to like yourself.â€

 

“We’re all just a bunch of Sneetches,†I said, referring my favorite Dr. Seuss story. “Eager to spend whatever we have for a star to put on our bellies because someone told us it would make all the other Sneetches like and accept us.â€

 

Heads were nodding, agreeable noises were being murmured, and two more women now felt comfortable enough to casually reach for a grape or a piece of cheese. The spanakopita remained untouched.

 

After a brief lull in the conversation, the mother brought up Madonna, because she’d recently read a news story that included pictures of the megastar musician. “She used to be so great, I absolutely loved her,†she said. “But then she got too skinny and now she looks like a freak.â€

 

“I think she’s trying too hard to appear young,†said the oldest among us. “Why can’t she just age gracefully? It’s embarrassing, really.â€

 

As they continued, I learned there is a “right†way to age, and that the actress Helen Mirren is a good example. As though reciting a Buzzfeed article, the women began to list all the things no self-respecting woman of a certain age should be caught dead wearing, from shades of lipstick to articles of clothing that included the short-shorts in which Madonna was spotted.

 

I attempted to crack a joke by saying, “Could you guys stop ‘should-ing’ all over the place? It’s beginning to smell out here,†but the one woman who seemed to hear me just stared blankly, as though considering something, before offering yet another suggestion: “UGG boots,†she said. “They’re barely passable if you’re in college, but after that, they shouldn’t exist in your closet.†It was hard to argue with that.

 

They began listing conditions that determined whether or not a woman should be “allowed†to wear a given item. Are her legs smooth or is there visible cellulite? Is her belly flat or is there a pooch? Are her arms muscular or flabby? How old is she, and does she really look that age? Because if she looks younger than she is, she can get away with a little more. It was fatiguing.

 

These were the same women who, not ten minutes earlier, bemoaned a culture that failed to instill confidence in young girls. Now they were bashing Madonna for being “too skinny†and detailing, with frightening specificity, what any given woman should be able to wear based on her physical characteristics. I wondered if it made them feel better about themselves, all this “knowing what was right and proudly abiding by those rules.â€

 

I thought of the four-year-old who was already fussing over how she looked, and I could understand why. It’s not enough for us to tell our children that they’re okay just the way they are. If we really want the message to sink in, we need them to see that everyone else is okay just the way they are too. Instead of hearing Mommy say, “Madonna is too skinny, she looks like a freak,†imagine if that child heard, “There’s a woman doing her own thing — good for her.â€