Unfair attacks on Madonna

[Turuncan 737]

For the ageism thing, I agree with you to a certain extent.

 

I love Madonna for her art, and as long as she releases decent music I really don't care about how she behaves. I will only talk about how she makes me feel. And she made me feel good with "Rebel Heart" and I also love her interviews.

 

And as much as I don't care about and disagree with "not acting her age" accusations, I can understand why they are made in the first place. None of those accusations are uttered at Tina Turner, Barbra Streisand, Jane Fonda, and even Cher, who created her new self with all those plastic surgeries (which are totally fine to me, she looks fantastic).

 

Madonna is called for that because she desperately wants to look young, hip, and cool with all her mannerisms and garbage stuff such as 'Bitch I'm Madonna'. When she collaborated with Britney and then Justin, she didn't look so desperate; but hanging out with Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, LMFAO, M.I.A., Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Kanye West, Nicki Minaj (x3), all that drama with Gaga, calling out to Adele, covering Ellen's programme for a whole week etc etc make her look as if she could not keep it together all by herself anymore, which is really not the case. Her adolescent-like behaviors just added to the criticisms as well. Contrary to popular belief, many people have no objection to her being sexy, but she is not even sexy on 'Holy Water' or 'S.E.X.' as much as she is not "hip and cool" on 'Bitch I'm Madonna'. She just looks as if she is having a Monday syndrome.

 

She can make the music she likes, but I really don't think the woman who made 'Frozen' and 'Vogue' made 'Bitch I'm Madonna' and 'Give Me All Your Luvin'' fondly. She has talent, and really hasn't lost it. Nobody says she should do jazz or folk because she's pushing 60. If she comes with another quality album such as "Confessions on a Dance Floor" or the better part of "Rebel Heart", I will welcome her with open arms.

[groovyguy 63,856]

MADONNA IS AGE-SHAMED FOR STILL ENTERTAINING AT 59

http://www.inquisitr.com/4474202/madonna-ageism-entertaining-new-music/amp/

 

https://www.facebook.com/ian.phillips.3192/posts/10210476252439153

[LikeAMelody 728]

"What do I think about the comments?" I always felt Madonna was and still is great for weeding out the garden when we are looking at the overall landscape.

[Fighter 28,797]

For the ageism thing, I agree with you to a certain extent.

 

I love Madonna for her art, and as long as she releases decent music I really don't care about how she behaves. I will only talk about how she makes me feel. And she made me feel good with "Rebel Heart" and I also love her interviews.

 

And as much as I don't care about and disagree with "not acting her age" accusations, I can understand why they are made in the first place. None of those accusations are uttered at Tina Turner, Barbra Streisand, Jane Fonda, and even Cher, who created her new self with all those plastic surgeries (which are totally fine to me, she looks fantastic).

 

Madonna is called for that because she desperately wants to look young, hip, and cool with all her mannerisms and garbage stuff such as 'Bitch I'm Madonna'. When she collaborated with Britney and then Justin, she didn't look so desperate; but hanging out with Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, LMFAO, M.I.A., Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Kanye West, Nicki Minaj (x3), all that drama with Gaga, calling out to Adele, covering Ellen's programme for a whole week etc etc make her look as if she could not keep it together all by herself anymore, which is really not the case. Her adolescent-like behaviors just added to the criticisms as well. Contrary to popular belief, many people have no objection to her being sexy, but she is not even sexy on 'Holy Water' or 'S.E.X.' as much as she is not "hip and cool" on 'Bitch I'm Madonna'. She just looks as if she is having a Monday syndrome.

 

I'm late but I love how you said you don't agree with ageist criticisms and then went off with the most ageist criticisms of her. That twist ending. M Night Shyamalan who?

[MadMark 117]

I'm late but I love how you said you don't agree with ageist criticisms and then went off with the most ageist criticisms of her. That twist ending. M Night Shyamalan who?

:lol:

[groovyguy 63,856]

Madonna Just Made The Best Points About Sexism & Ageism

NICK LEVINE

15 APRIL 2018

https://www.refinery29.uk/2018/04/196431/madonna-ageism-sexism-patriarchy

If anyone understands the toxic combination of sexism and ageism that's used to demean and restrict women as they get older, it's Madonna. In recent years, the pop icon's every move seems to be met with reductive cries of "put it away" or "time to retire, grandma".

 

But one of the singer's defining characteristics is her determination to push back: if society tells her not to do something because she's a woman, and a woman who's not 25 anymore, she's sure as hell going to keep on doing it anyway.

 

In a new interview to promote her MDNA Skin range, she makes some typically perceptive points about the obstacles she faces as she approaches her 60th birthday in August.

 

"It’s an outdated, patriarchal idea that a woman has to stop being fun, curious, adventurous, beauiful, or sexy past the age of 40. It’s ridiculous," she tells The Cut.

 

"Why should only men be allowed to be adventurous, sexual, curious, and get to have all the fun until the day they leave this earth? Why should that only be the domain of men? How do we fight this? By standing up to men and by standing up to social mores or standards that say we cannot. The more women that do it, it will just be a matter of time."

 

Madonna goes on to explain that when she became famous in the '80s, she was labelled a "sexual provocateur" because she made sexuality an integral part of her work - something that was deemed unusual for a female artist at the time.

 

"Now, all the challenges that I had to face 20 years ago seem ludicrous," she reflects. "What I am going through now is ageism, with people putting me down or giving me a hard time because I date younger men or do things that are considered to be only the domain of younger women.

"I mean, who made those rules? Who says? I’m going to keep fighting it. Ten to 20 years from now, it’s going to be normal. People are going to shut up."

 

She's right - and that day can't come soon enough.

[Turuncan 737]

On 06.09.2017 at 6:25 PM, Fighter said:

 

I'm late but I love how you said you don't agree with ageist criticisms and then went off with the most ageist criticisms of her. That twist ending. M Night Shyamalan who?

Where exactly does your concept of ageism start? Just because I pointed out she acted like an adolescent? Well, she does!

[groovyguy 63,856]

Madonna at 60: Fighting against society’s bid to define her by gender, sexuality and culture

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/madonna-at-60-fighting-against-societys-bid-to-define-her-by-gender-sexuality-and-culture-854852.html

[Mr. Peanutbutter Horseman 3,652]

On 4/18/2018 at 12:36 PM, Turuncan said:

Where exactly does your concept of ageism start? Just because I pointed out she acted like an adolescent? Well, she does!

Ageism begins and ends with "[age group] should/shouldn't do [activity]".

[Turuncan 737]

4 hours ago, The Same Parts said:

Ageism begins and ends with "[age group] should/shouldn't do [activity]".

I don’t remember saying that though.

[kesiak 3,032]

52 minutes ago, Turuncan said:

I don’t remember saying that though.

You have criticised Madonna for acting like an adolescent which immediately implies you think there's a right and wrong way to behave for people past a certain age. That is ageism. 

[Turuncan 737]

2 hours ago, kesiak said:

You have criticised Madonna for acting like an adolescent which immediately implies you think there's a right and wrong way to behave for people past a certain age. That is ageism. 

I haven’t criticized her. I just said what she did, with no positive or negative undertones, stressing I do not care how she behaves as long as she makes the music I like. There is an obvious difference between pointing out what there is, and expressing your idea about it. Even if I had a certain idea about her manners, this would be the freedom of opinion and expression, you know, what Madonna herself has advocated since the beginning of her career. 

[kesiak 3,032]

28 minutes ago, Turuncan said:

I haven’t criticized her. I just said what she did, with no positive or negative undertones, stressing I do not care how she behaves as long as she makes the music I like. There is an obvious difference between pointing out what there is, and expressing your idea about it. Even if I had a certain idea about her manners, this would be the freedom of opinion and expression, you know, what Madonna herself has advocated since the beginning of her career. 

There was an obvious tone of criticism/judgement in your post ("desperately wants to look young", "is having a Monday syndrome") and it's cool, why deny it? You're free to express whatever opinion you may hold, it's your prerogative. I was just pointing out why it was ageist. 

[kesiak 3,032]

[Turuncan 737]

 

51 minutes ago, kesiak said:

There was an obvious tone of criticism/judgement in your post ("desperately wants to look young", "is having a Monday syndrome") and it's cool, why deny it? You're free to express whatever opinion you may hold, it's your prerogative. I was just pointing out why it was ageist. 

Gosh, I am not denying it. Why would I? I just say it was not what I meant. If it is my choice of words, I am sorry for being misunderstood. English is not my native/mother tongue after all.

Having a Monday syndrome means not really liking what you do, what does that have to do with ageism? It’s like you criticize me just because you think I am attacking her, regardless of what I truly mean with my sentences. 

[LikeAMelody 728]

I guess this is the proper thread to mention this...all these "rock guys" whom have had their egos inflated for years dismiss Madonna's work because A. A woman is not allowed to be as famous as they are and B. They dismiss her work because they see no value in what she says.

"They can not feel or see value in what she says." "They can not feel or see any value in what is important to me." So she is successful because fill in the blank_______ and add any of the non reasons they like to give why I have been listening to her music for the last 35 years.

 I am not going to name names but they don't feel anything or like her work because they can't identify with a woman's point of view or have no feelings about a woman's point of view. Women who accept men as individuals can also feel something with a male artist's music. A woman has to be crying over some guy or talking about lonliness and others can only  be successful to a point as artists.  Just take a look at classic rock lists of greatest artists. They throw some women in there down the list who should be much more celebrated. 

To sum up what I am trying to say is the whole problem with thier dismissing Madonna as an artist is that it is a "direct dismissal if what I care about." "What is important to me"...and it ain't just about having fun. 

I didn't buy Madonna's music for any of the reasons I have heard out of some of the people in the music industry and it annoys me. 

[groovyguy 63,856]

Madonna: The Pop Icon People Love To Hate

https://www.latintimes.com/madonna-pop-icon-people-love-hate-438066

 

By Iona Rivera | Apr 23 2019,

 

Rebel, rockstar, innovative, fearless and vogue are just a few words to describe the ultimate Queen of Pop, Madonna. Billboard named Madonna as the most successful solo artist in its Hot 100 chart history and the highest-grossing solo touring artist of all time. Undoubtedly, she is the most successful female artist of all time.

But with fame, success, power and solid footing as a pop icon comes love and hate. After all, the “Material Girl” singer epitomizes most of her songs, a template she had laid out even before the era of Beyonce and Taylor Swift. Listed below are the reasons why people love to hate Madonna.

1. She acts like an alpha male

Madonna’s success surpassed the “cooler than cool” status to the point where she is acting like an alpha male (or female). Madonna is persistent, controlling, hardworking and physically fit even for her age now, adjectives to describe an alpha.

But Madonna is also self-absorbed, unapologetic, assertive and powerful. When a female acts like a man, people cannot take it.

2. She displays narcissism

Madonna’s egotism is beyond her personal trait but more of a brand. She made a conscious effort to be narcissistic because she knows the world is watching her. In “ Understanding Popular Culture” written by media scholar and communications professor John Fiske, he analyzed the Madonna phenomenon in the 1980s.

“Madonna knows well the importance of the look,” Friske wrote. “This is a complex concept, for it includes how she looks (what she looks like), how she looks (how she gazes at others, the camera in particular), and how others look at her,” he further explained.

3. She is said to have minimal talent but with massive success

What do Cyndi Lauper, Janet Jackson, Cher, Kylie Minogue and even Lady Gaga have in common? Many believe that they are more talented than Madonna. But how did Madonna earn the title Queen of Pop?

Madonna goes beyond music and talent and explores attitude, fashion and lifestyle. International authors labeled her as the Queen of Pop because of her socio-cultural impact, which rouses interest from sociologists, historians and social scientists. Her music and flair never go out of style. She reinvents herself and sets trends, regardless of era and timeline.

Also, the “Like A Virgin” singer sold around 335 million albums and singles, including digital tracks, worldwide in her entire career, proving she is the queen. Madonna’s achievements went above record sales and commercial success. She is an empire and a legend.

4. She reinvents herself in unusual ways

Madonna is the queen of almost everything in the pop world, but the Queen of Pop reinvents herself bysparking controversies on race and cultural appropriation, embracing female sexuality, introducing the cone bra to the world and proving older women are relevant.

5. She has lived too long to be a villain

A Reddit user attributed the people’s dislike over Madonna to the fact she has been living and staying too relevant for too long that she has become a villain. In the world of good and bad and pop culture, the protagonist either dies a hero or lives long enough like a villain.

[NickiFinn 300]

On 9/4/2017 at 8:02 PM, groovyguy said:

MADONNA IS AGE-SHAMED FOR STILL ENTERTAINING AT 59

http://www.inquisitr.com/4474202/madonna-ageism-entertaining-new-music/amp/

 

https://www.facebook.com/ian.phillips.3192/posts/10210476252439153

queen of being 59. Fuck you, Im 59.

[groovyguy 63,856]

 

• LIFE

'There are no rules - if you're a boy': Why do so many hate on Madonna?

https://www.image.ie/life/no-rules-youre-boy-many-hate-madonna-147605

As she prepares to release a new album, Madonna has been subjected to the (now usual) litany of abuse online. But why are so many seem determined to direct abuse at the woman who has revolutionised what it means to be a woman in the music industry? She deserves so much better, writes Jennifer McShane

---

 In a time when we're still seeing women struggle for their rights (despite momentous change), we are blessed to have one icon who uses her platform to continue to speak about the revolutionary acts that we still need to see: Madonna. But even saying the performer's name in 2019 polarises the audience - including the female audience. It remains baffling, the negativity that now seems to come along with being a pop star in your sixties. She was always a symbol of rebellion: the underdog; a woman who, through music and her art was intent on changing the status quo for what it meant to be a woman.

In her view, anything was possible with the right attitude and determination - she came to New York with nothing more than a few dollars in her pocket determined to see her ambitions fulfilled - and her lyrics acted as a social commentary for how things should be challenged.

She always sought to empower and unify. To demand the best.

She still does. Over three decades into a career which has seen her become the highest-grossing female touring artist of all time, she still demands the best of everything life has to offer. And this is the problem as many see it; this is why she is vilified. Is it because she's a woman over 60, still relevant in an ageist industry that favours the young (and the males) all of whom demand the same?

"There are no rules - if you're a boy. There are rules if you're a girl"

"If you're a girl, you have to play the game. You're allowed to be pretty and cute and sexy. But don't act too smart. Don't have an opinion that's out of line with the status quo. You are allowed to be objectified by men and dress like a slut, but don't own your sluttiness. Be what men want you to be, but more importantly, be what women feel comfortable with you being around other men. And finally, do not age. Because to age is a sin"

She's right, but as she starts a new promotional campaign on the cusp of a new album, that doesn't stop the critics.

Those who say she's too old, too sexual for her age, too much of anything.

Where is the criticism of Elton John? Of the male members of Fleetwood Mac who tour every single year? Was similar abuse hurled at the late David Bowie?

"I've had the sh**t kicked out of me for my entire career, and a large part of that is because I'm female and also because I refuse to live a conventional life," Madonna said in an interview.  "I've created a very unconventional family. I have lovers who are three decades younger than me. This makes people very uncomfortable. I feel like everything I do makes people feel really uncomfortable," she said.

Limitations for women 

It's too easy to dismiss her as a white, rich pop star living in another reality (and many do), but she knows both sides; she knows she lives a life of privilege while being aware of the lashings of hate that come with that - just as she knows because she's a woman growing older, limitations are placed on her life.

And yet there are many rich, white, powerful men in a similar position who are, by and large, let off the hook. Even with #MeToo.

She knows that she can't be seen as a sexual woman of 60 plus because this is widely considered taboo in modern society. But instead of being lauded by the masses for this empowering attitude, she's punished.

Even down to the fact that after achieving so much, she still lives to create music and some, like her ex-husband Guy Richie, still, ask why.

[wtg1987 10,151]

As long as she makes good music I try and forget everything else - yes I don’t like some of her lifestyle choices - whatever people say and may call it ageism she definitely has a problem with growing old gracefully and it’s gotten worse since she split with Guy - since 2008 it’s noticed a lot more - I wish she wasn’t single and didn’t feel the need to hang with younger stars - she’s above all of them anyway - it’s also sad that none of her female contemporaries stick up for her too or support her - 

[A. A. Aardvark 4,830]

35 minutes ago, wtg1987 said:

As long as she makes good music I try and forget everything else - yes I don’t like some of her lifestyle choices - whatever people say and may call it ageism she definitely has a problem with growing old gracefully and it’s gotten worse since she split with Guy - since 2008 it’s noticed a lot more - I wish she wasn’t single and didn’t feel the need to hang with younger stars - she’s above all of them anyway - it’s also sad that none of her female contemporaries stick up for her too or support her - 

Blame 'Guy' !
Blame her Manager.
Blame being 'forced' into Songwriting Camps.
There's only one person to 'blame'...can you think who ? 
Kylie Minogue once said she probably got the same amount of things done 'with less noise' as Madonna.
I didn't think she was saying anything else apart from the idea that Madonna does what Madonna wants ?
 

[kesiak 3,032]

1 hour ago, wtg1987 said:

As long as she makes good music I try and forget everything else - yes I don’t like some of her lifestyle choices - whatever people say and may call it ageism she definitely has a problem with growing old gracefully and it’s gotten worse since she split with Guy - since 2008 it’s noticed a lot more - I wish she wasn’t single and didn’t feel the need to hang with younger stars - she’s above all of them anyway - it’s also sad that none of her female contemporaries stick up for her too or support her - 

First of all, "growing old gracefully" is a toxic and meaningless phrase and it's time to put it to rest - it's been thrown at Madonna as far back as 1993. Secondly, what female contemporaries? Cause there are literally none. 

[wtg1987 10,151]

2 minutes ago, kesiak said:

First of all, "growing old gracefully" is a toxic and meaningless phrase and it's time to put it to rest - it's been thrown at Madonna as far back as 1993. Secondly, what female contemporaries? Cause there are literally none. 

Mariah, Janet , Tori, Bjork, Kate Bush , Kylie - come to mind 

[kesiak 3,032]

1 hour ago, wtg1987 said:

Mariah, Janet , Tori, Bjork, Kate Bush , Kylie - come to mind 

Madonna started earlier than any of them (apart from Kate Bush). I'd say Whitney was her last true female contemporary, both in terms of time when she emerged and the impact she had. What I meant is show me a female artist who would be Madonna's age, had decades-spanning career and made pop music. I think that's also part of the problem - there's never been a career in pop quite like Madonna's and people, fans included, sometimes don't know how to feel about it. We're not used to seeing women past certain age being unapologetically ambitious and sexual.

[groovyguy 63,856]

Madonna: the double standards applied to the Queen of Pop are astonishing

https://www.entertainment-focus.com/music-section/music-news/madonna-the-double-standards-applied-to-the-queen-of-pop-are-astonishing/