New_Boy

The outtakes are lovely! As for the obsessive poster, I won't interact with that kind of toxic fandom in an elaborate manner if they can't even write, or even understand, a proper sentence. I also definitely won't explain the history of colonialism and why what Madonna was doing was brilliant. I understand they might be unhinged type who'll be coming back all the time, but I've never seen someone so bannable. Thanks for stepping up, @Fighter.

I kind of co-sign what you're saying, Jackie. Madonna's "freedom fighting" for the past decade feels so shallow. Even though secretprojectrevolution kind of hit the nail in the head in terms of what was coming in America, the message was delivered through something that can be only be described as a glorified magazine editorial. Therefore the lack of impact. Preaching about billionaires while she herself having a good fraction of a billion is... well, pun intended, rich coming from her. It's just a bunch of slogans and platitudes that ring hollow. The only subversive thing she's done lately is the "Batuka" project, both song and video. It was an actual example of humanizing and owning up for the pain of the slave trade. "God Control"? Yawn. "Dark Ballet"? Wow, Madonna and religion, never saw that coming.

The only shining spot from the interview is that closing paragraph. The rest is just a mix of being delusional and self-aggrandizing, which is her default mode these days. Wow, you rebeled against a parent? How thought-provoking and unique!

Thank you for sharing, RUADJAI. I feel like listening to queer BIPOC is always a good barometer of where our attitudes should be on this, considering they're more than familiar with both black issues and queer issues, and how they aren't always disjoint. Also, glad they're sort of mentioning some of the things I did as well. I feel like there's this transitive property that goes like "Madonna is a saint who can't do no wrong" => "She included Chappelle in her special" => "Chappelle must be a saint too" => "Therefore, the naysayers are just snowflake losers who don't believe in Freeze Peach, lol trans people are horrible amirite" <insert Madonna's Baldwin quote or something she said 30 years ago> EPIC WIN . As I said, bringing Madonna into this was just pointless, when the discussion literally has nothing to do with her.

Yeah, because someone calling you by a man's name when you look and present as a woman is a completely normal and respectful reaction. It's not a matter of agreement, just human decency. If they can disrespect the way someone identifies, I will surely not accept them identifying as a non-transphobe. Also, some of you never had insults shouted at you and it shows.

Well, as far as I can tell, you're here too, so what's your excuse? And again with parrotting Madonna catchphrases, I'm begging you to read and listen to something else too, at least by accident. Some Madonna fans are surprisingly among the blindest, most stubborn and closed-minded people I've ever interacted with.

Thank you for noticing! It's called nuance. I'm not criticising her for being trans, which is perfectly valid and she deserves nothing bad happening to her because of that. You are using her minority status as a shield from criticism, which is disingenuous, and dare we say it, knowingly rude. Please stop trying to do that. What, are we not suppossed to criticise Milo Yiannopoulos just because he's gay? He's also supported Trump and p*dophilia, and collaborated with N*zis, so I guess it's just homophobic pointing that out. Funny that all of you only hyperfocus on Blaire, when ContraPoints, Kat Blaque, Mia Mulder, Abigail Thorn, NikkiTutorials and many other trans women actually provide you with entertaining and educational content, instead of validating your pre-existing bigotry. Cheers! @charThank you for sharing your stance, you're brave and strong.

I've amended the original post to remove those remarks, but they will clearly stay in the quotes, I have to bear that shame. Let's agree to disagree then, and thanks for discussing this. I'll just never be able to accept someone saying those things.

Watched the Blaire White video as well, and as usual, she always takes the stance of "I'm not like the other trans, please accept me". She will always default to what the majority of clueless and/or bigoted people think because that's where she gets her views from. She will never, ever say anything that goes against the status quo. Please go through her channel and tell me I'm wrong. She's so painfully insecure that each video screencap is her looking hot while positioning herself against the other person looking their worst. Ironically, no one would give two shits about her if she weren't "trans person against trans ideology", she would simply be a boring white bully of a woman. Also re-reading the thread, and it's embarrassing how some posters simply parrot learned phrases from Madonna and wield it in this thread without thought or proper context. I mean, I get it, you obviously don't speak English other than Madonna lyrics, we can hardly expect you to express complex thoughts. Madonna's freedom fighting also can't be conflated with this, since she never took a massive dump on the disenfranchised. And again, this has nothing to do with Madonna, and was obviously another misguided Guy Oseary move. I also want @robder, @deathproof , @thiagosb and @PlayPause to join me in a liberated commune. I just know you guys are sexy, on top of being smart, you're serving BDE! I'll also be reading "Pedagogy of the Oppressed", thanks for making me read on Paulo Freire!

Anyway... I've seen the entire special, and will be commenting only on it, without delving into Chappelle's previous statements. I'm hoping any trans/ally person will help me out if I'm missing bigger parts of the story. First of all, you can clearly tell Dave Chappelle is an old school comedian, in the sense that his time is over. Comedy has evolved, and he has refused to do so. I found myself chuckling a couple of times during the hour, but not more than that. He's clearly an eloquent and extremely charming guy, with a lot of lived experience and solidarity with his people, as he should, since the Black community is still so clearly disenfranchised two centuries after slavery was "abolished". The thing that's painfully obvious can be summarized by the following meme. Look, I don't think he thinks he's doing transphobic things. He's clearly described his experience with Daphne, the lovely trans comedian, who was his friend. Unfortunately, it all seemed disrespectful in the sense that he used her as a shield, or, dare I say it, the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" defense. Her death was, again, used as a weapon against the nasty trans, who drove her to kill herself, just for standing up for him. You don't get to say "I'm team TERF" and "Gender is a fact" and "Transitioning is just like blackface" and "Their pussies are just pretend", while in the same breath proclaiming "I'm not saying trans women aren't women" and supporting them using the bathrooms of their gender. The best interpretation could be that it's mixed messaging, and the worst is that it's pure transphobia, because those first four statements are indeed very transphobic, and mean you're pretty deeply familiar with the anti-trans movement and their ideology. I completely understand why some trans people took offence with it. It's not dog whistles, it's completely blatant. It's also definitely not comedic. The worst part is thinking that J.K. Rowling, DaBaby and Kevin Hart were being punched down on. It will literally never be true, because the fact they've reached the 1% of the 1% means they have more privilege than any other woman or black person that you know. Not to mention trans people, who are often forced into prostitution since nobody else wants to hire them. Can you imagine that happening to you? Can you empathize? As I said, the Daphne story is the ugly filpside of the times we live in and people having to vent their rage against their oppression somewhere, not even picking their targets properly. Regular people shouldn't have their livelihoods destroyed because of wrong statements. But putting her plight against the "poor Kevin Hart couldn't host the Oscars" and somehow making that feel all the same just felt crass, felt wrong, felt disrespectful. I just hope he keeps his promise and helps her daughter when she's older. So yeah, that was my two cents. My new friend @robder posted this very good video on trans people and comedy yesterday, and it nails the discussion so well. Especially since it's in line with Dave Chappelle said about Daphne too, that talking about herself and her own lived experience is where her true comedic talent shined through. So, in memory of Daphne, please watch this. And realize that, yes, Dave Chappelle might not be transphobic, but he definitely said very, very transphobic things.

No one watches that anyway, dude. It's 2021, society has progressed past the need for "Family Guy". Anyway, are you gonna parrot "family guy" and "cancel culture" on every page, or do you have any new material? Cheers love xx

To show how much I'm willing to engage with this topic, I've torrented the Special, not giving this man a legal stream, and I'll condense my thoughts after seeing it. Cheers!

Very sorry for any pain your lived experiences have given you, but also, Blaire White is a also bad example here. She is a known conservative whose whole channel is basically there to posit herself as a "good, acceptable trans person" compared to people who don't have her looks and privilege. I can spend my time finding voices of many, many trans people who've been hurt by this, but what you've posted is basically the "I have black friends, I can't be racist" defense. Or specifically, "This trans person says this is not transphobic, so it's not". Watch this hilarious yet very real takedown of Blaire White, maybe you'll understand my point of view a bit clearer.

Also, since I see that the benchmark for comedy is awfully low these days, please check out this show! It's called "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend", it's a hilarious way of dealing with mental illness and romantic clichés, and shows people of all ages, appearances, orientations living normal, vivid lives. Oh, and they've written over 150 original songs to feature in each episode, each one with a music video as well! Here's a brilliant example. You can find all four season on Netflix, so stream that instead of Chappelle.

Sorry to be replying to you again, but what he said wasn't even a joke. Please inform yourself. He said, quote, "I'm team TERF" and voiced support for homophobic black men. How is this funny or comedic in any way?

"Family Guy" is just an awful show, which, again, has nothing to do with this. Can you write in proper sentences and in line with what's being argued, or just act like an idiot?

No, you missed the point completely by presenting this as "Poor little Chappelle vs The World". He's literally going to be fine. To him, this is merely a slap on the wrist, while you present this as, let's see, [QUOTE] [...]completely cancelled[...] [...]silenced[...] Are people with different views, different understandings, different lives supposed to not have careers, friends and a public life? [/QUOTE] which is not happening, and is merely a strawman i.e. a complete misrepresentation of the situation, on top of the people who actually got fired by Netflix. I'm not saying that this can't be wielded against regular people, which is a completely separate and valid issue, but Chappelle? Give me a break. You cannot be silenced while simultaneously having a two hour special on the biggest platform on the planet. Think about it for a second, please. No one's gonna murder him for being Chappelle, but people definitely get murdered for being trans. Also, the author of this thread also creates a strawman by bringing Madonna in this topic just to rile people up with fictional scenarios, and they simply wanted to air their support for transphobic actions proudly. The end.

Thank you!!! [edited the rude parts out]

I'm sick of us giving the benefit of the doubt to people who say harmful things, like you just did, @PaperFaces. What about the people who simply don't say stupid shit ever, and just want to live their lives in peace? Who gives them a gold star and lists everything good they've ever done when they make a mistake? Chappelle is going to be fine, he's got his money, his family, his lawyers, literally nothing will happen to him. Who will be accountable when they find yet another trans person murdered? Definitely not Chappelle, even though his actions pushed that trigger a micrometer more. They're an easy target for all of these terrible out-of-touch celebrities because they're almost powerless. The Netflix employees who walked out got fired. Why was their "express yourself" stance shut down brutally, while Chappelle walks away with 23 million dollars? Are you okay? In just one of the multitude of ways he was wrong, he posits this debate as "white LGBTs" vs. "uneducated ignorant blacks", as if DaBaby isn't also a millionaire, and as if a person can't be simultaneously black and trans, making them poorer than both marginalized groups. This is called intersectionality, which he clearly knows nothing about, since he hasn't been a regular normal human being in decades. The same is true for Madonna, and it shows on occasion (let's all suppress the memory of the witch doctor whose opinions she shared on her platform with millions of followers). Celebrities need to shut up on things they know nothing about, and should uplift the voiceless. Not attack the weakest parts of society, which are already targets without their involvement. You can't use your oppression to oppress others, that's not how it works. As for Madonna, I hope she will say something trans-supportive, no context needed. She doesn't need to cut Chappelle, she didn't do anything wrong. I do agree that saying "Chappelle said something transphobic" and "Chappelle is a transphobe" are... sort of two different things? The other is generalization. The first can be apologized for, amended, learned from. The second is often a place where you can't return from, and I still hope this isn't yet another lost soul on the path of evil and bigotry. If he has a history of transphobia, I'm sorry for, ironically, giving him the benefit of the doubt as well. There's no excusing for what he did, just hope that he's not going to go Graham Linehan on us from now on.

Watch it be real. Ready for the meltdowns!

Wanting solo versions is just racism. I said what I said! The tour version of "Future" is great, but you can still hear Quavo in it, I guess it's not "pure" enough for y'all.

You should honestly be banned for this. No one's opinion is THIS important, and you could've just edited a single post.

I'm holding my head in the same manner after listening to the whole thing. Other than the organic feel of the fado section, only "Future" is a genuine surprise in the end.

HQ Apple Music Artwork http://is5.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music115/v4/fb/74/3d/fb743dcb-f3ae-9cc5-4e99-1a7d168fab77/source/100000x100000-999.jpg I'd say it's definitely more like her latest live albums. Nowhere near Confessions. In fact, I'm almost 90% sure Medellin is misplaced by accident, since the "Welcome to My Fado Club" / "Extreme Occident" transition is also beyond terrible, and she's literally announcing "Medellin" in "Welcome to My Fado Club"! This transition also includes some iPhone-quality audio. "Breathwork" is this weird interlude, which is actually "Rescue Me". I guess not even Warner being involved again could salvage this.

Okay, track 8 to track 9 is a mess, continuous or not. And the speech that is clearly spliced from three different audio sources, if not two or three different dates. I know it's nitpicky, but fuck it, gotta say it like it is.