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Blond Ambition and Re-Invention tours - who owns the rights?


Little Angel
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8 hours ago, Bat-Fan said:

Having the Paris footage released on bluray is every fan's dream, mine no less than anyone else. About the lighting, first of all, yes they added lights later but the lights you see in Barcelona and nice were added at the tail end of the tour for the taping because the found it too dark, but in my opinion I find they grossly overdid it with all the neon colors, as the earliest show were under-lit, the Nice is over-lit, that Pink color for example in Express yourself is pretty terrible in my opinion but I would still rather have Nice released, it is amazing show, they all are too me.

The reason Yoko is so dark is combination of several things, first it was early in the tour and they hadn't really perfected the lighting, the in fact kept adding them later in the US and then they went all nuts with those colored lights in Barcelona and Nice. Due to the vocals in Nice, that many find just part of the charm is most likely something Madonna isn't very fond of. The Yoko is also dark because the wind kept blowing away the smoke which is needed for the lights to diffuse. But most fans have some crap version of the yoko show as the picture and audio quality of Yoko is considerably better than Nice. Nice was taped in PAL, than converted to NTSC; which is the in-house, that looks much better than the regular LD rip fans have of the yoko show; that not only looks dark, but have a has rather faded colors and grayish/dull overlay. But the source recordings look really good of the yoko show, and it was done in NTSC, and there was much more footage than was on the release as you probably know as it can be found on youtube or used to be at least, I have seen 2 or 3 songs there. The Paris lighting is the best we have seen but I don't know if you have read about all the work they did only for that show. There is interesting reading material you can easily find that explains the amount of time that took to color correct every frame, doing light enhancements etc. basically it is really amazingly done. There is a reason the lights look so good and coloring is just crazy good. But as I just said before replying to you, and I am am just going to copy/pase part of it:  Paris dates weren't filmed except 10 songs, but the whole Paris part was taped, But a bluray or editing in the style of TOD is not possible when only selected songs were filmed for the movie. You do not want a mix of taped and filmed bluray; the quality of the taped part is not bluray material, it would be worse than MDNA mixed pixture quality. And no I do not have a source, but I think if people really want the Paris Bluray/stream mentioned in the other thread and by default don't believe me; then they should use their imagination and think who could know this fact for certain and is it really so difficult  to just get in contact? Why not try, nothing bad will happen, forget Guy Oseary, but you can of course try to reach him but he has never replied to me. 

There has been endless "only selected songs were filmed" vs "no the entire concert was filmed  I was there and there were cameras also in  the other songs" on and on it goes. Given it was 30 years and I really want that show released and that dumb pioneer deal is not a problem anymore I was hoping she would release the Nice show, so I contacted someone to my surprised told me... everything mentioned above, Nice source material is pretty much just the in-house but higher bitrate and it is not possible to use is for bluray and the possible streaming mentioned. I asked about Paris of course and if the entire thing was filmed or not and unfortunately no it wasn't and I asked: are you sure annoyingly often.  Those songs were mapped out for the movie, with LAP and HP also filmed but only ended up as extra and not edited and processed the same way. There were other things than the pioneer LD deal blocking BAT being released on DVD long time ago. Most shows were taped for the monitors and some had added cameras, and actually future leaks wouldn't surprise me. BUT as for releasing the entire concert in 4K and streaming, the only source material good enough is yokohama. It was released as a Japan exclusive at the time but i have no idea  why it is possible to release it now. The  material for will of course never look anything like Paris, but they can do much more with it than other shows, like it doesn't look grayish like those terrible LD rips, also it can be color corrected, lighting can be enhanched/amplified considerable, gamma settings need to be increased etc. Also details that cannot be seen can be brought to light. When you see on youtube these fan made "remastered Yoko shows" basically what is done is the color has been increased, often too much, as it is not actual color correction, it is just increase in all the colors, and because those LD rips look so grayish; what I see is basically just brightness decreased to eliminate the grayish black but it ends up totally too dark and over all terrible. What needs to be done is enhance the brightness selectively probably increase the contrast and not make the picture darker as the source recording doesn't look like that. But this is the way it is. It is of course not up to me me to decide if a concert is released or not but there was concern that the demand for the tour was not that great, as doing this is expensive. So I guess we will just live with what we have. The Nice leak isn't really any worse in quality than WTGT or GS anyway, which isn't saying much of course.

You explained so much that I never knew, thank you! 

It's funny, I actually watched some of the Nice show yesterday and noticed the extreme lighting. I can see your point there. Makes sense that extra light was added because when I saw the show in person in Michigan (June 1, 1990), I remember it definitely being lit well but not like Nice and definitely more than Yoko. I also remember lights coming from the top and created beautiful shapes on the stage. Oddly those must have been replaced or drowned out for the later shows. I was only 11 years old when I saw it in person, but I remember a lot as I was hyper aware and mesmerized the entire time. 

Well, here's hoping the Yokohama show gets released eventually. I'd definitely take it over nothing. The Blond Ambition tour deserves so much more than an outdated format release from 3 decades ago.

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It’s difficult to capture light on video, compared to film. Peter Morse had to work with the director of photography on finding a good balance between lighting the stage for the audience, and lighting it for the video recordings. He only had to adjust the lighting for the filmings. Nothing was added on night after night as the tour progressed. 

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1 hour ago, deathproof said:

It’s difficult to capture light on video, compared to film. Peter Morse had to work with the director of photography on finding a good balance between lighting the stage for the audience, and lighting it for the video recordings. He only had to adjust the lighting for the filmings. Nothing was added on night after night as the tour progressed. 

This is true, the lighting was still increased drastically for Barcelona and Nice. 

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1 hour ago, jtrover said:

You explained so much that I never knew, thank you! 

It's funny, I actually watched some of the Nice show yesterday and noticed the extreme lighting. I can see your point there. Makes sense that extra light was added because when I saw the show in person in Michigan (June 1, 1990), I remember it definitely being lit well but not like Nice and definitely more than Yoko. I also remember lights coming from the top and created beautiful shapes on the stage. Oddly those must have been replaced or drowned out for the later shows. I was only 11 years old when I saw it in person, but I remember a lot as I was hyper aware and mesmerized the entire time. 

Well, here's hoping the Yokohama show gets released eventually. I'd definitely take it over nothing. The Blond Ambition tour deserves so much more than an outdated format release from 3 decades ago.

Yes it sure does. The problem I had with Nice is not only the overwhelming light but the color, like the set piece in Express yourseld now being neon color pink and so on.. Also in Holiday just eas the the top light and compare it to other early shows. 

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On 4/27/2020 at 6:13 AM, Bat-Fan said:

They can, and also color correct it and amplicy lighting considerably. Also there are alot more footage/shots available than appeared on the LD. I do know they are considering this, and yes they really are! and it's the only source good enough for major reconstruction and for 4K and possible streaming platforms, but the issue is if Madonna can release legally. It was a Japan exclusive but maybe it changed with expited pioneer contract.

who said the pioneer contract expired? I think they hold the rights to it and Nice forever

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34 minutes ago, Brendanlovesu1 said:

who said the pioneer contract expired? I think they hold the rights to it and Nice forever

You should look into Pioneer and their history. It’s obvious they don’t hold the rights anymore. Plus the contract was that it was released exclusively on laser disc, which is now an obsolete format 

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On 4/30/2020 at 1:06 PM, deathproof said:

You should look into Pioneer and their history. It’s obvious they don’t hold the rights anymore. Plus the contract was that it was released exclusively on laser disc, which is now an obsolete format 

Yes this is true. They seem to not want to realease the Nice show.

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  • 6 months later...
Guest Nobody Knows Me

Interesting to see a camera seems to be filming her in Where’s the Party since they claimed they only filmed the songs we saw in Truth or Dare.

 

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23 minutes ago, Nobody Knows Me said:

Interesting to see a camera seems to be filming her in Where’s the Party since they claimed they only filmed the songs we saw in Truth or Dare.

 

Exactly- I don’t believe Alex or M - they did film the whole show even the director of photography says they did - why would would they film express yourself, turn off cameras for open your heart , then turn them back on again for causing ( there is only a snippet in the film but surely it must have been filmed in full ) it makes no sense 

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Guest Nobody Knows Me
4 minutes ago, wtg1987 said:

Exactly- I don’t believe Alex or M - they did film the whole show even the director of photography says they did - why would would they film express yourself, turn off cameras for open your heart , then turn them back on again for causing ( there is only a snippet in the film but surely it must have been filmed in full ) it makes no sense 

I totally agree. I’m not just saying it because I want it to exist, I just fully believe it was filmed over three nights in full and they lost it all. The cinematographer would know better than anyone, and I feel like Madonna is just going with what Alek said. We all know she’s forgetful when it comes to her own legacy.

 :Madonna006:

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3 hours ago, Nobody Knows Me said:

Interesting to see a camera seems to be filming her in Where’s the Party since they claimed they only filmed the songs we saw in Truth or Dare.

 

Well, we don’t know if that cameras even on lol

But, I do believe that they filmed the whole thing too.

They may not have had the steadicam capture every song (we know this to be true about Cherish), but there where multiple cameras all throughout the place, would be silly to have them all stop for certain songs on all 3 nights.

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There used to be a thing in the 90's where the local and international press were permitted to film there first four songs of the show to use on their entertainment sections of the news etc. This would include Express Yourself, Open Your Heart, Causing A Commotion and Where's The Party. Then it was cameras off. 

That might explain why there is Where's The Party footage. Dunno.

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Guest DeeperDeeper
On 11/20/2020 at 10:24 AM, Andymad said:

It just boggles my mind. A tour so captivating and catapulting for females in the business, and the greatest of its time... how TF do you lose something like that? I call bullshit. LIES!

Somebody has it and they know the true worth of that footage. 

If it's ever discovered, custody needs to be transferred to the Library Of Congress so it can be preserved for future generations. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Nobody Knows Me

I think that the real reason that the Re-Invention Tour was never released was because of the scrapped 20th anniversary project. She mentioned in Attitude magazine in 2005 that it was "filmed separately to be released as a concert but contractually I’m not allowed to release it until the movie’s been out a certain period of time." It definitely exists completely edited for release though, since there's still an update about releasing it at the end of 2005. She mentioned in Attitude that she was hoping for it to be part of the scrapped box set of concerts so I imagine it was just forgotten about when the box set was scrapped.

She mentioned including the Blond Ambition Tour as well. I imagine she was referring to the Nice concert so perhaps she just thinks it's too dated to release now, which is a shame.

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28 minutes ago, Nobody Knows Me said:

I think that the real reason that the Re-Invention Tour was never released was because of the scrapped 20th anniversary project. She mentioned in Attitude magazine in 2005 that it was "filmed separately to be released as a concert but contractually I’m not allowed to release it until the movie’s been out a certain period of time." It definitely exists completely edited for release though, since there's still an update about releasing it at the end of 2005. She mentioned in Attitude that she was hoping for it to be part of the scrapped box set of concerts so I imagine it was just forgotten about when the box set was scrapped.

She mentioned including the Blond Ambition Tour as well. I imagine she was referring to the Nice concert so perhaps she just thinks it's too dated to release now, which is a shame.

Imagine planning an incredible box collection of mega money concerts and just... not giving AF about it. LOL. Woman needs to giver her head a damn shake. I just... don’t get it. The audacity.

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Guest Nobody Knows Me
33 minutes ago, Andymad said:

Imagine planning an incredible box collection of mega money concerts and just... not giving AF about it. LOL. Woman needs to giver her head a damn shake. I just... don’t get it. The audacity.

I wish she’d pay more attention now, but I think she was pretty on board with this project. Warner Bros pulled the plug, likely because it was too expensive, and they gave us Remixed and Revisited instead, which remains the biggest slap in the face in the history of music. I think all the material they had for the project was lost but it’d be a dream if she got her head together for a 40th anniversary box set. 

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1 hour ago, Nobody Knows Me said:

I think that the real reason that the Re-Invention Tour was never released was because of the scrapped 20th anniversary project. She mentioned in Attitude magazine in 2005 that it was "filmed separately to be released as a concert but contractually I’m not allowed to release it until the movie’s been out a certain period of time." It definitely exists completely edited for release though, since there's still an update about releasing it at the end of 2005. She mentioned in Attitude that she was hoping for it to be part of the scrapped box set of concerts so I imagine it was just forgotten about when the box set was scrapped.

She mentioned including the Blond Ambition Tour as well. I imagine she was referring to the Nice concert so perhaps she just thinks it's too dated to release now, which is a shame.

The 20th anniv was already scrapped by fall of 2003. We were given R&R instead to make up for it lol.

Also, Caresse Henry was behind the 20th anniv boxset, as well as a tour boxset/getting VT & BAT on DVD. She and her company were also handling the RIT DVD release. By end of 2004, she was already fired, and the CBS concert special was cancelled. Plus there was the lawsuit with Hamish Hamilton for not receiving money for pre-production work....

The DVD release was delayed (numerous times), and was last planned to be released Xmas 2005, but was put on hold. Then all attention was put on IGTTYAS DVD, then the Confessions Tour DVD, then Filth & Wisdom, Hard Candy, etc..., etc...

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Guest Nobody Knows Me
15 minutes ago, deathproof said:

The 20th anniv was already scrapped by fall of 2003. We were given R&R instead to make up for it lol.

I know, and then she started trying to do a concerts collection again in 2005 and planned to include the Blond Ambition Tour and the Re-Invention Tour but it was also scrapped. Warner Bros really shot themselves in the foot by not releasing the 20th anniversary box set though. It would’ve been expensive but I imagine it would’ve made a lot of money at the same time.

As for the the missing tours, I’d buy The Virgin Tour and the Blond Ambition Tour on DVD in a heartbeat but the format is pretty dated now so I get why she won’t release them. I’m pretty sure the Re-Invention Tour footage is eligible for Blu-Ray though? The Paris footage is at least. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 4/29/2020 at 2:51 AM, Bat-Fan said:

Paris dates weren't filmed except 10 songs, but the whole Paris part was taped, But a bluray or editing in the style of TOD is not possible when only selected songs were filmed for the movie. You do not want a mix of taped and filmed bluray; the quality of the taped part is not bluray material, it would be worse than MDNA mixed pixture quality.

I would want a mix of film and tape, if I can't get everything on film. Prince's Sign of the Times on Blu-ray has about five blurry low resolution minutes in the middle of the film. I don't know why, but I can put up with it and still enjoy what I'm seeing. I know that with Blond Ambition, those moments would be more frequent and sporadic, but it would still be a dream come true. I would only hope that it wasn't as wildly edited as the performances in Truth or Dare. It worked for the documentary, but I would want a concert film to have longer shots.

Edited by Warm Gun (see edit history)
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Guest Nobody Knows Me

I think it would look too messy if they used film and tape personally. That would mean they'd have to use Paris and Nice, and Paris was filmed in an indoor arena whilst Nice was an outdoor stadium, and she also sounds much better in Paris than she did in Nice.

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