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I mean It's her body and all that etc and I've been accused of being armchair pysciatrist on here before but.... the level of work Madonna is having isn't maintenance it's bordering on Jackson levels of alterations. I've defiantly thought in recent years there may be some body dysmorphia in there somewhere. The pictures of her in the bathtub are frankly verging on scary. The killer for me is she has had all this work done and the results actually make her look older than a 60 yr old. 

I love this woman to the death and have no issues with any choices or statements she's ever made. Her mistakes make her human like all of us. Through all the controversies over the years, everything has sat well enough with me. Her surgeries are one thing I know i'll never quite come to terms with. It broke the spell for me and now I'm more of a loyal observer than a fanatic of the current incarnation of her. The artist part, I will check for, but I don't have the affection for the woman I feel I once knew..and that's on me. None of her concern. I just know that I'm not alone in those feelings. I don't take huge issue with people hating her because as a fan base were used to the criticism, I can't bear the thought of people laughing at her. That stings but ...she's increasingly harder to defend. I dunno.

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49 minutes ago, steady75 said:

I mean It's her body and all that etc and I've been accused of being armchair pysciatrist on here before but.... the level of work Madonna is having isn't maintenance it's bordering on Jackson levels of alterations. I've defiantly thought in recent years there may be some body dysmorphia in there somewhere. The pictures of her in the bathtub are frankly verging on scary. The killer for me is she has had all this work done and the results actually make her look older than a 60 yr old. 

I love this woman to the death and have no issues with any choices or statements she's ever made. Her mistakes make her human like all of us. Through all the controversies over the years, everything has sat well enough with me. Her surgeries are one thing I know i'll never quite come to terms with. It broke the spell for me and now I'm more of a loyal observer than a fanatic of the current incarnation of her. The artist part, I will check for, but I don't have the affection for the woman I feel I once knew..and that's on me. None of her concern. I just know that I'm not alone in those feelings. I don't take huge issue with people hating her because as a fan base were used to the criticism, I can't bear the thought of people laughing at her. That stings but ...she's increasingly harder to defend. I dunno.

Same here, agree 100%. The last decade has been hard on me as a fan. Too much stuff that has turned me off her in a big way. I used to defend her to the hilt but I can't anymore. I'm still here for the music but, as much as I hate to admit it, I don't look up to her anymore.

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I can understand not liking her anymore, but to be fine with everything she’s done but all of a sudden turn against her because she’s had plastic surgery seems extreme when a lot of her appeal has been based of her being glamorous and artifice with outrageous fashion, makeup and hair color. Did you really expect her to age naturally? Suppose she had gained weight and let her hair grow gray and didn’t wear makeup anymore? How would you feel then? 
I can understand not admiring her but just because of plastic surgery? That cancels out all the good she has done for women and the LGBT community and self expression? Or are there other things you don’t like she has done or said? 
If you really think she has body dysmorphia isn’t that a psychological problem? Do you lose respect for people with mental illnesses? 

I just find it Interesting how easily people turn on her and forget all the joy she has brought people over the years. I have read how loyal some fans are to their favorite artists on other forums even ones that have been to jail for drug addiction or violent crimes.  Why doesn’t Madonna get that same kind of loyalty? Why isn’t she allowed to make mistakes? 

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2 hours ago, steady75 said:

I mean It's her body and all that etc and I've been accused of being armchair pysciatrist on here before but.... the level of work Madonna is having isn't maintenance it's bordering on Jackson levels of alterations. I've defiantly thought in recent years there may be some body dysmorphia in there somewhere. The pictures of her in the bathtub are frankly verging on scary. The killer for me is she has had all this work done and the results actually make her look older than a 60 yr old. 

I love this woman to the death and have no issues with any choices or statements she's ever made. Her mistakes make her human like all of us. Through all the controversies over the years, everything has sat well enough with me. Her surgeries are one thing I know i'll never quite come to terms with. It broke the spell for me and now I'm more of a loyal observer than a fanatic of the current incarnation of her. The artist part, I will check for, but I don't have the affection for the woman I feel I once knew..and that's on me. None of her concern. I just know that I'm not alone in those feelings. I don't take huge issue with people hating her because as a fan base were used to the criticism, I can't bear the thought of people laughing at her. That stings but ...she's increasingly harder to defend. I dunno.

It's ok to not relate to her anymore. I probably wouldn't make the same decisions she's made here and there, but I'll still defend her right to make her own choices. 

1 hour ago, rlittler81 said:

Same here, agree 100%. The last decade has been hard on me as a fan. Too much stuff that has turned me off her in a big way. I used to defend her to the hilt but I can't anymore. I'm still here for the music but, as much as I hate to admit it, I don't look up to her anymore.

I've felt the same way but honestly while I dislike some things she's done, I love a lot of other things she's done. And that makes me realise that she's just human, and yes it's hard to look up to someone who is just human. 

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10 minutes ago, Fighter said:

I've felt the same way but honestly while I dislike some things she's done, I love a lot of other things she's done. And that makes me realise that she's just human, and yes it's hard to look up to someone who is just human. 

I don't really "look up to" anyone.  Everyone is human.  It's perfectly fine to admire positive qualities about anyone while acknowledging they have flaws.  She's obviously done a lot of good while also behaving in some thoughtless and ridiculous ways at times.

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2 hours ago, steady75 said:

now I'm more of a loyal observer than a fanatic

This really struck me. She’s always THE artist for me. But I honestly thought something was wrong with me when I heard Madame X. I didn’t take to it, it wasn’t really what I had expected or hoped for. I don’t think I’ve listened to it straight through more than twice... it kind of broke me after being so stoked for a new era. 
But I appreciated the messages in the songs, and really liking Looking For Mercy tbh.

But “loyal observer”. That’s the term I think I’ve been looking for to describe me in this past era.

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2 hours ago, Andymad said:

This really struck me. She’s always THE artist for me. But I honestly thought something was wrong with me when I heard Madame X. I didn’t take to it, it wasn’t really what I had expected or hoped for. I don’t think I’ve listened to it straight through more than twice... it kind of broke me after being so stoked for a new era. 
But I appreciated the messages in the songs, and really liking Looking For Mercy tbh.

But “loyal observer”. That’s the term I think I’ve been looking for to describe me in this past era.

Looking For Mercy will be forever my favorite song from this era. But like many other Madonna’s recent songs it feels incomplete. It lacks a killer bridge. 

Despite all this I’m staying as a loyal follower, not a die-hard fan. I was there for her glory days so I’m also here for her sunset days. I only wish the people who love her had a little intervention time with her. If not, I’ll just keep having her in my prayers.

 

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6 hours ago, madaboutM said:

Looking For Mercy will be forever my favorite song from this era. But like many other Madonna’s recent songs it feels incomplete. It lacks a killer bridge. 

Despite all this I’m staying as a loyal follower, not a die-hard fan. I was there for her glory days so I’m also here for her sunset days. I only wish the people who love her had a little intervention time with her. If not, I’ll just keep having her in my prayers.

 

I honestly don’t know why she didn’t perform it on the tour. She sounds so powerful singing it on the record.

i would have loved that on piano over Future

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Looking for Mercy could have stayed in the vault. Remove Bitch i'm loca and Faz Gostoso to the deluxe version and put Ciao bella in their place and the album is pretty good. Then remove all process on her voice, tweak the lyrics in Killers and put Dino de Santiago instead of Maluma on Medellin and change the title to Lisboa (Medellin story is what she experienced in Portugal) and the album is cohesive. It won't still be a diva cheese fest album for provincial gay bars either where they still wear bootcut jean's and listen to Eurovision version of edm.

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16 hours ago, Glindathegood said:

I can understand not liking her anymore, but to be fine with everything she’s done but all of a sudden turn against her because she’s had plastic surgery seems extreme when a lot of her appeal has been based of her being glamorous and artifice with outrageous fashion, makeup and hair color. Did you really expect her to age naturally? Suppose she had gained weight and let her hair grow gray and didn’t wear makeup anymore? How would you feel then? 
I can understand not admiring her but just because of plastic surgery? That cancels out all the good she has done for women and the LGBT community and self expression? Or are there other things you don’t like she has done or said? 
If you really think she has body dysmorphia isn’t that a psychological problem? Do you lose respect for people with mental illnesses? 

I just find it Interesting how easily people turn on her and forget all the joy she has brought people over the years. I have read how loyal some fans are to their favorite artists on other forums even ones that have been to jail for drug addiction or violent crimes.  Why doesn’t Madonna get that same kind of loyalty? Why isn’t she allowed to make mistakes? 

I’m not turning in her. She’s family. There just comes a point where you stop believing in everything she says and stands for. You question their motives and  thought processes but you still love and respect them. Who hasn’t had this with their own grandparents or even parents.

Our own life experiences widen the lens. Madonna often contradicts herself. I’m just more aware of her own bias and thought processes after years of following her, (or at least this public version of her). 
Social media removed the veil and she’s not who I thought she was. I still like her but i used to think she was one of the smartest people alive. A Bowie. Maybe she still is and the mask slipping is purposely part of her commentary on fame and celebrity.

 

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1 hour ago, steady75 said:

I’m not turning in her. She’s family. There just comes a point where you stop believing in everything she says and stands for. You question their motives and  thought processes but you still love and respect them. Who hasn’t had this with their own grandparents or even parents.

Our own life experiences widen the lens. Madonna often contradicts herself. I’m just more aware of her own bias and thought processes after years of following her, (or at least this public version of her). 
Social media removed the veil and she’s not who I thought she was. I still like her but i used to think she was one of the smartest people alive. A Bowie. Maybe she still is and the mask slipping is purposely part of her commentary on fame and celebrity.

 

What did she say or stand for that you don’t believe in anymore? Was it just that last Instagram post that she deleted? Is it fair to say she stands by that since she deleted it? 
If you are talking about plastic surgery, she never said she was against or having it was bad. 
I admire her as an artist, but I think she’s very intelligent but I never thought she was one of the smartest people alive since she never graduated from university and doesn’t have a graduate degree, so obviously there are things she doesn’t know. Bowie was a chameleon and a great musician, but I wouldn’t say he was one of the smartest people alive either. 

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On 7/19/2020 at 11:55 AM, RebelHeart said:

And this changes anything because... ? :)

Because what ? You obviously haven't seen the hate in these Kylie forums no ? Funny how Kylie fans turn a blind eye to her using botox...and bashing Madonna....it's starts all subtle...then once mid 50's it all changes...hence my comment...

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3 hours ago, Glindathegood said:

What did she say or stand for that you don’t believe in anymore? Was it just that last Instagram post that she deleted? Is it fair to say she stands by that since she deleted it? 
If you are talking about plastic surgery, she never said she was against or having it was bad. 
I admire her as an artist, but I think she’s very intelligent but I never thought she was one of the smartest people alive since she never graduated from university and doesn’t have a graduate degree, so obviously there are things she doesn’t know. Bowie was a chameleon and a great musician, but I wouldn’t say he was one of the smartest people alive either. 

I suppose I just knew her as the most forward thinking, conceptual woman.. hell person, I’d ever known. Now I realise she’s human and can be utterly tone deaf at times. She always had a killer eye for aesthetics and I question that now because of her (rightful) personal choices about what look good. That’s it really. Like I said. She broke the spell. It’s not a character assassination. This isn’t just about that video this is a slow process of the last 15 yrs or so.

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On 7/30/2020 at 1:20 PM, steady75 said:

I mean It's her body and all that etc and I've been accused of being armchair pysciatrist on here before but.... the level of work Madonna is having isn't maintenance it's bordering on Jackson levels of alterations. I've

I will have to agree - I do love her but if she does anything else in her face - the result will be that Ducchess of Alba effect. Just because this subject has been raised - I bet she will be doing something. 

furthermore, I guess she doesnt give a fk - she is focused on being a mother - which is amazing.

 

Edited by sidney78a
corrected wrong info (see edit history)
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11 hours ago, steady75 said:

I’m not turning in her. She’s family. There just comes a point where you stop believing in everything she says and stands for. You question their motives and  thought processes but you still love and respect them. Who hasn’t had this with their own grandparents or even parents.

Our own life experiences widen the lens. Madonna often contradicts herself. I’m just more aware of her own bias and thought processes after years of following her, (or at least this public version of her). 
Social media removed the veil and she’s not who I thought she was. I still like her but i used to think she was one of the smartest people alive. A Bowie. Maybe she still is and the mask slipping is purposely part of her commentary on fame and celebrity.

 

I adore Bowie but if he was that smart how come he did not manage to make a decent album from a to Z after Let's Dance ? We had to wait for Black Star and his death for that. Outside or 1. Outside, the better version was almost it but he had to add a stupid storyline that made no sense. Sometimes it feels like Bowie had the Elton John syndrom, without drugs the classic and perfect albums from the 70's came from cocaine. I know people put ded people on a pedestal as soon as they die but bowie was not perfect. No one is. And that's fine. Stop looking at celebrities like they are superhumans and act surprised when they behave like they believe they are. Madonna is not perfect.

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On 7/30/2020 at 2:29 PM, Glindathegood said:

Am I the only one to look up to someone who is human? Too perfect people intimidate me. 

Madonna has always been all too human which is why I took to her. No human is perfect in the conventional sense but everyone is a perfect human being. What was attractive 40 years ago is not so much today. Fans today think the "show" is real.

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On 7/31/2020 at 6:39 AM, Glindathegood said:

What did she say or stand for that you don’t believe in anymore? Was it just that last Instagram post that she deleted? Is it fair to say she stands by that since she deleted it? 

She didn't delete it.  It  was removed, twice, by Instagram along with all other posts referencing that video.

She still believes it since she's now followed another doctor on Instagram spouting the same hydroxychloroquine messaging.

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4 hours ago, stfan97 said:

She didn't delete it.  It  was removed, twice, by Instagram along with all other posts referencing that video.

She still believes it since she's now followed another doctor on Instagram spouting the same hydroxychloroquine messaging.

I just noticed it and was going to post it, she hasn't apologised because she believes she was right, it is very sad considering this doctor the other day was homophobic does she really still think this woman is great?

https://www.instagram.com/madonna/following/

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On 7/31/2020 at 1:57 PM, Blondie said:

Because what ? You obviously haven't seen the hate in these Kylie forums no ? Funny how Kylie fans turn a blind eye to her using botox...and bashing Madonna....it's starts all subtle...then once mid 50's it all changes...hence my comment...

Actually Kylie stopped using botox, you can compare photos from 2007 and now - it's clear. I don't know if she stopped using that all together but she knew she went too far. I also think she talked about that in an interview.

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I adore her, I idolize her and her work has helped me in so many ways than you can imagine, but her recent creative decisions, tone-deaf statements, badly photographed shots and distasteful remarks are indeed tarnishing her image and legacy in the eyes of the public.

I still love her like I always did but I wish she wasn’t living in a bubble with a bunch of yes men who agree with anything she says. She’s an incredible artist who’s badly managed and not a very good listener to criticism. It’s good not to care for people who want to bring you down, but not every criticism aims to bring you down. Sometimes it’s healthy to take criticism into consideration to be better, because nobody’s perfect and we can all learn from one another.

People’s hatred towards Madonna isn’t gonna change how much I love her, and I don’t care what the world thinks of her. She’s still my idol, but the only thing I wouldn’t accept is people laughing at her, and at this point, people aren’t offended by her, they’re looking down on her and laughing, and I think she should definitely change that. This is not how the legend of Madonna should end.

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