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Like, I understand if Lola were dragging trolls or people who are being rude to her in general, but she replied rather rudely to someone who was simply praising Hard Candy, which I thought was uncalled for. I saw some of her other replies as well and they came across as not only offensive, but also a little try-hard. It's like she's trying to be edgy for attention. 

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13 hours ago, Nahual said:

Like, I understand if Lola were dragging trolls or people who are being rude to her in general, but she replied rather rudely to someone who was simply praising Hard Candy, which I thought was uncalled for. I saw some of her other replies as well and they came across as not only offensive, but also a little try-hard. It's like she's trying to be edgy for attention. 

Maybe she thought the fan was also being sarcastic with Hard candy, as fans we all know the endless discussions we’ve had the same goes for MDNA. I think Lola is aware a lot of what Madonna fans think about her work whether it’s positive or not, I think more so than Madonna herself. 

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20 hours ago, steady75 said:

I always felt like Guy was good for Madonna because he bought her down to earth a bit and made her take herself less seriously. I liked her humour when they were together. I'm positive that their relationship attributed in some small way to the reasons why she managed the transition into a 00's darling rather than being left in the 90's. She had a great sense of humour before but the Music project and that Brit sensibility lent itself to some much needed light relief after the heavy Ray Of Light project. Madonna moving to the UK was a time that brought her immense creativity and passion in her music and art. Even Erotica and Bedtime Stories is maybe my favourite period of her career, there is no doubt that the early and mid 90's were a commercial wreck for her in the most part...and then we were in to bland balladry for an eternity with Evita  as much of a yawn in many ways. Ray Of Light is always the pivotal moment but to me the Music era was the closest to True Blue in terms of star power and he star shining brightly. Fun polished and optimistic. Ray Of Light paved the way in that sense. 

Towards the end the result were gash though. Hard Candy is an aural representation of the discourse...and let's not pretend Madonna would have been easy to live with either. It takes two to tango. 

I really don’t understand why or how some kind of “relief” was needed after Ray of Light ( or how “Guy was good for her” artistically - relationship-wise ok, she married him after all). I think Music was only so big because of Ray of Light. Everyone was anticipating what she’ll come up with next. 
I agree with you that Music and True Blue were similar in terms of popularity - she was married, doing what society expected, she was off the market and no longer a threat to hetero-normative standards (as she said herself). She fit better into conservative society’s mold again. Revisit what happened when it became clear that she’d longer be with Guy. She was villainized again; ridiculous which media response the adoptions received.

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35 minutes ago, NowRadiate said:

I really don’t understand why or how some kind of “relief” was needed after Ray of Light ( or how “Guy was good for her” artistically - relationship-wise ok, she married him after all). I think Music was only so big because of Ray of Light. Everyone was anticipating what she’ll come up with next. 
I agree with you that Music and True Blue were similar in terms of popularity - she was married, doing what society expected, she was off the market and no longer a threat to hetero-normative standards (as she said herself). She fit better into conservative society’s mold again. Revisit what happened when it became clear that she’d longer be with Guy. She was villainized again; ridiculous which media response the adoptions received.

Adding to what you said...

Music started being recorded in mid-1999, before they even met. Music was launched on Sept 2000, their marriage was 3 months later.

American Life was all about the US (war) - no UK influence whatsoever.

Confessions also had 0 influence from Guy or the UK, except if we count that Stuart Price is british, I guess?

During these years, he was also homophobic to her brother, told her "she looked like a granny on stage", implemented behaviours on her that she had never had (Madonna in pubs? Madonna feeding chickens as a housewife? really?), and many other things.

It does takes two to tango, but justifying and equating Guy's problematic behaviour with Madonna being a bit of a diva... good lord.

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Good points and I'm not trying to purposely be obtuse but that's a slightly meta framing all the same.

There's duality in everything. Cause and affect. Madonna had been leaning into all thing British by the mid 90's. Nelle Hooper, Massive Attack, Alan Parker, Lloyd Webber. Her relationship with Andy Bird had a profound affect on her. To say that the UK wasn't a draw and a creative an influence is a bit evasive. 

Austin Powers - Beautiful Stranger about Andy Bird presumably.

William Orbit - Ray Of Light

James Bond.

Music Video - Ali G

The English Roses.

Mini Coopers

Rupert Everett

Stuart Price - Confessions / AL and Musical director on tours. Confessions LIVE from London. 

She even adopted the freakin accent and left her midwest New York hybrid drawl behind. 

Confessions arguably had Euro disco influences as opposed to American and of course MIrwais is French. The UK was the natural place for her to land after her escape from the US. 

Impressive Instant and I Deserve It (Guy), were about him weren't they? I think I read that. He directed the WIFAFAG video. 

American Life the video centres around the US war. The song and the entire record is nothing to do with that at all in any way whatsoever it's a midlife crisis record. The fact that she had moved to the UK during the Bush years may have given her perspective on her former US home and she arguably became more aware of the ills of the American Dream. I clearly remember her saying something like the dumbest person in the UK is more intelligent than the average American. A horrendous statement but she clearly felt some kind of way and was trying to distance herself from all things US and house a more Euro feel. Bye Bye miss American Pie. 

Her shift back to American music influences as Hard Candy came round and divorce was already on the cards seems very transparent wouldn't you say?

One thing is for sure. The artistry was on point during their years together, The references fresh and the eras exciting...and downhill since I'm afraid. 

...but there's two sides to every argument. Music was heavily cowboy influenced...but chopped up and dissected. The Cow Girl..again questioning the dominance of the man. I Love New York..etc so no doubt she missed home too. 

Was / is Guy a dick? Probably absolutely??? ... but in the late 90's early 00's he was the hot shit director, fresh incredibly talented and handsome. The homophobia thing is unacceptable but we only have Christophers word on that don't we and wasn't he was also in the grip of a terrible substance abuse issue? I'm sure we've all been witness to that toxic gay who's erratic behaviour forces you to give them a wide berth. They're often not afraid to pull out the old "homophobia" card.  

I do find it odd. Guys films are laced with homo erotic activity and tension and I'll always be grateful to him for casting Tom Hardy as Handsome bob in Rock'n'Rolla.

Relationships are a compromise and if you think Guy Ritchie was forcing Madonna to dress up in stately Manor clothes and feed chickens then I don't know what to tell you. We know enough about Madonna by now to know she took all these things and make them her own as part of another reinvention. I don't see anyone hounding Denis Rodman and Tupac against the wall for her Hip Hop bad girl make over circa 94. Magpie-ing form her current surroundings is part of her brand....also see Madame X.

She addressed the duality of their relationship on MDNA  and in reality no one knows except the both of them. The real theme of grief she seemed to have at the end of the marriage was monetary. 

As fans we often side with our idol and cast aspersions on anyone who falls out of her favour. I think the truth of the matter is Guy probably just fell out of love with Madonna and she found that unbearable and devastating...That's no ones fault. Love is complex....now if She's Not Me is a thing then we bout to have another conversation...but who really knows the timeline. 

"It wasn't always perfect, but it wasn't always bad"

" I tried to be a good girl I tried to be your wife"

"I feel like I've lost my very best friend"

" I fucked up, I made a mistake"

Just like the album....Self reflection through fake smiles, heartache, regret, rage and trying on old versions of yourself for re-affirmation. 

 

 

....or not

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, NowRadiate said:

I really don’t understand why or how some kind of “relief” was needed after Ray of Light ( or how “Guy was good for her” artistically - relationship-wise ok, she married him after all). I think Music was only so big because of Ray of Light. Everyone was anticipating what she’ll come up with next. 
I agree with you that Music and True Blue were similar in terms of popularity - she was married, doing what society expected, she was off the market and no longer a threat to hetero-normative standards (as she said herself). She fit better into conservative society’s mold again. Revisit what happened when it became clear that she’d longer be with Guy. She was villainized again; ridiculous which media response the adoptions received.

She was villainiesed with death threats to her and her children with American Life right in the centre of their marriage so again we can pick which bits we want to frame to weight our perspective. 

..and Music was big because it fuckin slaps. To that end as Confessions only big because of American Life flopping? Again there's no exact methodology here. 

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36 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

Madonna fans are annoying. I must control myself to not insult you all. True story. But at least it's my choice to come here, I'm sure i couldn't control myself if you guys were coming on my account. 

C'mon, man. This is a discussion board, you know, to discuss? We're just talking. Why insult like this? If you have something to say, say it. Maybe it will even be relevant to the discussion. But these type of comments bring nothing new to the table.

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On 1/24/2021 at 8:07 PM, Dito said:

C'mon, man. This is a discussion board, you know, to discuss? We're just talking. Why insult like this? If you have something to say, say it. Maybe it will even be relevant to the discussion. But these type of comments bring nothing new to the table.

Or we can just ignore him, all of us.

Edited by Jakey (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, eXtremeOccident said:

I met her a few times in college, and I can confirm she is not a very nice person lol. Not at all surprised by how she's treating fans on Insta. 

On MDNA my group saw her pass by, we yelled "Hi, Lola!" and she gave us the middle finger...

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4 hours ago, Dito said:

 

On MDNA my group saw her pass by, we yelled "Hi, Lola!" and she gave us the middle finger...

Funny that Madonna insisted so much on being a strict mother by not allowing her children to watch television, or by allegedly exposing them to art and making them read all sorts of books. Look what it leads to. This! ?

So dear Madonna, thanks for proving that we can all watch Netflix, never read books or go to museums, and be basic (even stupid), yet, decent human beings. Not watching tv clearly doesn’t make children any better. LOL #fact #lolaleon

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11 hours ago, madfan13_86 said:

Funny that Madonna insisted so much on being a strict mother by not allowing her children to watch television, or by allegedly exposing them to art and making them read all sorts of books. Look what it leads to. This! ?

So dear Madonna, thanks for proving that we can all watch Netflix, never read books or go to museums, and be basic (even stupid), yet, decent human beings. Not watching tv clearly doesn’t make children any better. LOL #fact #lolaleon

I think Madonna is an amazing mother intellectually with all the French lessons and culture and literature and whatnot, but emotionally she must rub off some of her own diva-ness in them, lol.

I also usually refrain from talking about this as it always ends up with some fans saying I'm "spreading rumours and/or dissing children", but when she was living here in Lisbon there were TONS of stories about the adopted kids behaviour too. One of the most shocking ones I remember were that the twins used to go around Charles LePierre (the french highschool where they were studying) hitting other children - one twin held the kids with their hands behind their backs while the other punched them in the stomach. And this was told me by the mother of an acquataince of mine who works there so I 100% believe it LOL

Mercy seems to be the only one who isn't a brat, tho.

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1 hour ago, Dito said:

I think Madonna is an amazing mother intellectually with all the French lessons and culture and literature and whatnot, but emotionally she must rub off some of her own diva-ness in them, lol.

I also usually refrain from talking about this as it always ends up with some fans saying I'm "spreading rumours and/or dissing children", but when she was living here in Lisbon there were TONS of stories about the adopted kids behaviour too. One of the most shocking ones I remember were that the twins used to go around Charles LePierre (the french highschool where they were studying) hitting other children - one twin held the kids with their hands behind their backs while the other punched them in the stomach. And this was told me by the mother of an acquataince of mine who works there so I 100% believe it LOL

Mercy seems to be the only one who isn't a brat, tho.

I'm not surprised at all...

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