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Is Madonna sabotaging her touring career?


MarXus
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4 hours ago, LikeAMelody said:

Madonna can sabatoge her touring career by not touring and that would save her a lot of time and effort. I mean...was she forced into a contract? 

I agree that Madonna earlier in her career would not be so unprofessional. Madonna often backed up what she expected of others by expecting the same thing of herself. She would never tolerate lateness from others but she in turn would would stay on schedule....am I correct? 

I am confused by the late starts.I have absolutely no explanation towards what I think. Does she need to go on tour? I do not know. 

She has this tour as the last one under her contract with Live Nation. She has to fulfill it to complete it.

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8 hours ago, stfan97 said:

Let's be sensible here.  It's not even a question, of course she is sabotaging her touring career.  The point is, she doesn't care.  She doesn't need the money.  She can't really have made it much clearer how much she doesn't care.  This is her last tour with Live Nation.  She doesn't even seem to be really enjoying touring that much (can't really blame her).

It's why it's hilarious to me when people start posting a gazillion posts about how empty this show and that is.  She doesn't care, so why should you?  Are you her accountant or something?  If she wanted the money, she knows how to behave.  Regardless, she's not going to be in the poorhouse tomorrow either...

I'm not one of those saying if you don't like it don't go.  I absolutely understand why people are upset, outraged, etc.  (and I've made it more than clear I'm one of them).  But if you're at the point where you're physically sitting at the show, and it's starting finally, you can at that time either make the choice to try your best to enjoy it as much as possible or condemn yourself and everyone around you to having a guaranteed as shitty night as possible by throwing a tantrum in public.  How you behave in public or whatever "contempt" you show really reflects more on you as a person than whatever Madonna is doing to you.  Freedom's what you do with what's been done to you.

"She doesn't need the money"?  Hmmm?  I'm not sure that is true.  Yeah, she's quite wealthy and she has plenty of investments and royalties that she could retire today and live comfortably.   No one is questioning that, but we do know that touring is a big source of her income in her music career.  She doesn't live a frugal life. 

Also, no one here is talking about their behavior.  We're talking about her lateness. I don't condone some of the behavior from those ticket holders, but at the same time, being upset and voicing that to her is totally in anyone's right.  Especially when they spend nearly $1,000 dollars to see her.  No other business would be able to get away with this without repercussions and outrage, so why assume Madonna should get a pass?  But if you're going to bring up the behavior of fan, be fair and recognize Madonna's behavior is hardly professional.

She doesn't care?  Fine, then she shouldn't care when someone gets up in the middle of her show and leave.  That's happened.  And you could have fooled me that she "doesn't care" when she points it out right when it happens.  So yeah, I think she DOES care.  The problem she has; is that she thinks she's above it all.  She can do no wrong.  For years, fans have been able to defend her, but I think this "lateness" is one issue fans shouldn't defend.  And we're not talking about being an hour late, here and there.  She's always late.  What's even more unprofessional is to even come on even later, after management has alerted ticket holders that she will be later than what was originally on the ticket. 

Whether it's her last tour with Live Nation or she's not enjoying it, isn't the point. People have spent up to a couple thousand dollars to see her.  She has an obligation to entertain these people, not attack them or make them wait around for hours for when she decides to take the stage.  It's just totally unprofessional.  And yes, it will eventually sabotage her career as touring artist.  

She should care, especially if she wants to share her vision and latest music on stage.  The longer she continues this flippant attitude that she can come on stage anytime she pleases, the harder it will be to fill her venues in the future.  We're already seeing it happen with this current tour.  The theaters are much smaller than venues, and she still isn't able to fill them completely.   

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If she didn't want money she wouldn't sell perfumes.

She is an artist and changed the pop culture, inspired by Basquiat, Haring, Warhol, but she is also a commercial act. We cannot pretend it's an intellectual thing, just hear the bad instrumental rendition of Like a prayer posted yesterday (not talking about her voice, just about the cheap arrangement).

Everything about pop is about making money. Merchandise first. Not just for M obviously. But she is obsessed with money she even put it inside the show with the polaroid auction.

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Just another perspective. She could actually be pissed off with someone or people behind the scenes and deliberately being late as an act of disobedience and rebellion. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Just another perspective. She could actually be pissed off with someone or people behind the scenes and deliberately being late as an act of disobedience and rebellion. 

 

 

Yes, but is that fair to the fans?  Also, keep in mind, not all concert attendees are die hard fans. Some go just because they are interested in seeing a legendary act.  Imagine showing up at original time on the ticket, and left waiting for hours, especially without their phone. 

Going to a concert should be fun. It shouldn't inconvenience the concert goers, who spend a lot of money to see her.  Some fans traveled from far regions to see her, and this is how she treats them? 

She's not hurting anyone but herself if this was the case. 

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I don't care if she's coming on stage at midnight. Ok it could be hard the next day to wake up but it's occasionnal. We live in a world full of people complaining.

I agree about the transport problem however especially in the end of fall and winter. Her team should do something on this point.

I'm going to see her in Paris with my boyfriend and my best friend. They are not fans but I'm pretty sure they don't mind to wait till she appears on stage

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6 hours ago, Enrico said:

Because we wish her a long career, with many more albums and many more tours.

We want her to be successful, and maybe have another it, so it's embarassing to think Madame X sold half of the copies Rebel Heart did. It went to number one because copies were linked to tour tickets, but it disappeared in one week. And I live in Italy - where she is not coming on tour but where I keep hearing her new songs on the radio!

We want her legacy to be recognized by public and critics, but this us not realky happening.

Because I can't get out of my head September 4, 1987, when more than 14 millions of Italians sat in front on their tv to watch her live from Turin, and everyone loved her. And I'm not happy to read about people booing, or how she couldn't connect with the audience and was nasty with them. It can't be just ten diehard fans with an eyepatch.

Well yes, we WANT all of those things, however, it's clear that us worrying endlessly about it isn't going to make her change in any way.  She's shown us how much she doesn't care and has no respect for her fans.  At some point you just have to decide whether you want to accept whatever she's still willing to give, I guess.

At the end of the day, I will still go to every tour I can that is left because our time with her is likely short.  I will still complain about her behavior before and after but DURING THE SHOW I am able to shut up for 2 hours and watch, listen, and enjoy as much as I can.

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1 hour ago, MarXus said:

"She doesn't need the money"?  Hmmm?  I'm not sure that is true.  Yeah, she's quite wealthy and she has plenty of investments and royalties that she could retire today and live comfortably.   No one is questioning that, but we do know that touring is a big source of her income in her music career.  She doesn't live a frugal life. 

Also, no one here is talking about their behavior.  We're talking about her lateness. I don't condone some of the behavior from those ticket holders, but at the same time, being upset and voicing that to her is totally in anyone's right.  Especially when they spend nearly $1,000 dollars to see her.  No other business would be able to get away with this without repercussions and outrage, so why assume Madonna should get a pass?  But if you're going to bring up the behavior of fan, be fair and recognize Madonna's behavior is hardly professional.

She doesn't care?  Fine, then she shouldn't care when someone gets up in the middle of her show and leave.  That's happened.  And you could have fooled me that she "doesn't care" when she points it out right when it happens.  So yeah, I think she DOES care.  The problem she has; is that she thinks she's above it all.  She can do no wrong.  For years, fans have been able to defend her, but I think this "lateness" is one issue fans shouldn't defend.  And we're not talking about being an hour late, here and there.  She's always late.  What's even more unprofessional is to even come on even later, after management has alerted ticket holders that she will be later than what was originally on the ticket. 

Whether it's her last tour with Live Nation or she's not enjoying it, isn't the point. People have spent up to a couple thousand dollars to see her.  She has an obligation to entertain these people, not attack them or make them wait around for hours for when she decides to take the stage.  It's just totally unprofessional.  And yes, it will eventually sabotage her career as touring artist.  

She should care, especially if she wants to share her vision and latest music on stage.  The longer she continues this flippant attitude that she can come on stage anytime she pleases, the harder it will be to fill her venues in the future.  We're already seeing it happen with this current tour.  The theaters are much smaller than venues, and she still isn't able to fill them completely.   

Her life is much more frugal than you think and compared to other major pop stars of her caliber.  She doesn't still own a private jet, etc.  Regardless, I assure you she isn't going to be homeless tomorrow either.

Why do I need to talk about her unprofessionalism when that is a given?  It's like saying the sky is blue.  Same as the very question in this topic.  Of course she is unprofessional, but she isn't going to change that no matter how much we want her to.  She doesn't care, no matter how much we want her to.  I've said it many times, but I don't need to say the same thing in every post.  It's tiring.  I'm done with this topic though.  It is what it is, I'm not going to waste more of my energy on it though.  Have a nice day. :)

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1 hour ago, Enrico said:

If she didn't want money she wouldn't sell perfumes.

She is an artist and changed the pop culture, inspired by Basquiat, Haring, Warhol, but she is also a commercial act. We cannot pretend it's an intellectual thing, just hear the bad instrumental rendition of Like a prayer posted yesterday (not talking about her voice, just about the cheap arrangement).

Everything about pop is about making money. Merchandise first. Not just for M obviously. But she is obsessed with money she even put it inside the show with the polaroid auction.

That's different though.  MDNA Skin and tour merchandise market off her physical image, and it's not like she has to go make the products herself or put in any extra effort.  It's not like any professional designed most of them either.  She does hype both up at many of the shows, but it's clear that fans will buy those anyway. :lol:

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13 minutes ago, Enrico said:

Me too, I'm cherishing these moments with her.

But it hurts me to read this:

(He is one of the 500 who got refunded, read comments too)

This hurts me too.

It's just all sad. I can understand all sides on this and I will defend her to my death. I'm just so thankful she's still making music and touring, but I'm worried on what she's doing to herself and her career when she's rude, inconsiderate, makes fun, and rebels against her own fans? I've never seen fan reactions this bad before. ?I really hope Guy and her team can get through to her on everything. 

 

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Guest Nobody Knows Me

I definitely think that this tour and her attitude are doing damage and could cause low ticket sales in the future. However, Madonna is a very smart woman and therefore must know that these late starts, sky-high ticket prices, and her attitude are going to stop people from coming to her shows in the future, therefore her seeming not to care does make me question whether she’s done with the arenas and stadiums so in that case she wouldn’t be doing harm to her touring reputation in the future. 

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1 hour ago, stfan97 said:

Her life is much more frugal than you think and compared to other major pop stars of her caliber.  She doesn't still own a private jet, etc.  Regardless, I assure you she isn't going to be homeless tomorrow either.

Why do I need to talk about her unprofessionalism when that is a given?  It's like saying the sky is blue.  Same as the very question in this topic.  Of course she is unprofessional, but she isn't going to change that no matter how much we want her to.  She doesn't care, no matter how much we want her to.  I've said it many times, but I don't need to say the same thing in every post.  It's tiring.  I'm done with this topic though.  It is what it is, I'm not going to waste more of my energy on it though.  Have a nice day. :)

But no one is talking about her being homeless here?  You keep adding things to the issue that really have nothing to do with why people are concerned or upset. 

And hey, no one forced you to chime in here if you feel you're "wasting your energy" on such a topic. I'm full aware that there are some fans like you, who aren't too bothered by the lateness, but more and more fans are getting upset and are concerned.  We have that right to speak out.  We have that right to be outraged, especially when Madonna is brushing it off, undermining her audience, acting like she isn't late.  It's insulting.  It's not fair to those many fans who worked years to see her live. Yes, many people save up for years to see her. 

Whether she changes or not, isn't the question here.  The point is; she should be mindful here. She should care because eventually this will hurt her touring career.  It already has!  You're fooling yourself if you think she doesn't depend on touring to live the life she does.  This is where the majority of her income is being made these days. 

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8 minutes ago, MarXus said:

But no one is talking about her being homeless here?  You keep adding things to the issue that really have nothing to do with why people are concerned or upset. 

And hey, no one forced you to chime in here if you feel you're "wasting your energy" on such a topic. I'm full aware that there are some fans like you, who aren't too bothered by the lateness, but more and more fans are getting upset and are concerned.  We have that right to speak out.  We have that right to be outraged, especially when Madonna is brushing it off, undermining her audience, acting like she isn't late.  It's insulting.  It's not fair to those many fans who worked years to see her live. Yes, many people save up for years to see her. 

Whether she changes or not, isn't the question here.  The point is; she should be mindful here. She should care because eventually this will hurt her touring career.  It already has!  You're fooling yourself if you think she doesn't depend on touring to live the life she does.  This is where the majority of her income is being made these days. 

I'm chiming in because it's called maintaining perspective.  These are first world problems.  You're preaching to the choir.  Nothing anyone says about what she "should" do or what she "should care" about is going to actually make her do so.  You started a thread but seem to only want to hear the echo chamber negativity, which is a strange way IMO to want to spend one's time on a forum, but to each their own.  You and others seem to think that any post that doesn't 100% agree with yours is the polar opposite extreme and "defending" her when in no post have I done that.  I've only said that we cannot make her change or care.

If you're her accountant and truly believe she needs her touring to live her lifestyle, well, that's up to you.  The truly wealthy rely on investment income, not actively earned income.

Anyway, my ignore list is growing, and I'll move on. :)

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30 minutes ago, cake said:

I think it has to do with the Madame X persona. Madonna in an achiever, Madame X is a bohemian.. she doesn't care

No, I do think it's because of that.  I think she just thinks she's above it all.  Like someone else said earlier in this thread (or maybe it was in another about this issue), she's taken the Diva behavior to extremes.

 

27 minutes ago, stfan97 said:

I'm chiming in because it's called maintaining perspective.  These are first world problems.  You're preaching to the choir.  Nothing anyone says about what she "should" do or what she "should care" about is going to actually make her do so.  You started a thread but seem to only want to hear the echo chamber negativity, which is a strange way IMO to want to spend one's time on a forum, but to each their own.  You and others seem to think that any post that doesn't 100% agree with yours is the polar opposite extreme and "defending" her when in no post have I done that.  I've only said that we cannot make her change or care.

If you're her accountant and truly believe she needs her touring to live her lifestyle, well, that's up to you.  The truly wealthy rely on investment income, not actively earned income.

Anyway, my ignore list is growing, and I'll move on. :)

I'm here to discuss a concern I have.  Majority of the members here who chimed in, are doing the same. It has nothing to do with being "negative".  It has nothing to do with wanting people to agree with me.  Don't paint me as some troll who comes in to stir the pot to just stir the pot.  You've read enough of my posts to know that I'm not that sort of person.  I've a very respectful fan.  I'm not arguing your points because I want to be right, nor think you are wrong.  I respect your opinion and anyone elses.

You continue to say, "she doesn't care".  And I don't disagree with you there. However, she should care.  I care!  More and more fans care!  I've been a fan for nearly 35 years and I hate to see this ruin her career.  Sure, it may be just a small dent in her career in the long run, but who are we kidding to think this isn't going to hurt her future ticket sales?  Touring pretty much is her last resort to get her art and vision out there.  No one needs to be an accountant (so stop saying that) to know that it makes up a lot of her income.

And how silly to put me on ignore, over this!  You say I want people to just agree with me, but isn't that what you're doing by ignoring me?  It's quite clear to me if someone doesn't agree with you, you get overly defensive and then prefer to block them, rather see it as some friendly discourse. If I was belittling you or insulting you that would be different, but I've never done such to you.  We certainly approach issues differently and yes, we may have difference of opinions.  That's all.  There is no need to block me because I push back on your opinion and you  choose to have no more energy to talk about it.  Just bow out like most people do when they exhausted a topic! After all, it's clear we both are huge Madonna fans. I'm sure if given a chance, we probably agree on more things about her than not.  But if you must block me, no skin off my back. It won't stop me from posting my thoughts and concerns, even if you assume I'm being negative or just wanting people to 100% agree with me.    

 

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13 minutes ago, MarXus said:

You continue to say, "she doesn't care".  And I don't disagree with you there. However, she should care.  I care!

I don't disagree with you at all here, but how do you think we will be able to make her care?  We can't.  I'm not being defensive about it, and I haven't defended her on this at all.  I just choose not to spend my time and energy debating things completely out of my control, that she doesn't care about and hasn't shown any indication that she will care about changing any time soon.

I am not stopping anyone from going on about it, but I don't agree with the characterization others have made that anyone who doesn't agree that everyone should express their contempt to all and sundry as loudly as they can in person is a "defender" or "boot-licker".  It is what it is and we will just have to accept what we are willing to or not, as a personal decision.

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24 minutes ago, stfan97 said:

I don't disagree with you at all here, but how do you think we will be able to make her care?  We can't.  I'm not being defensive about it, and I haven't defended her on this at all.  I just choose not to spend my time and energy debating things completely out of my control, that she doesn't care about and hasn't shown any indication that she will care about changing any time soon.

I am not stopping anyone from going on about it, but I don't agree with the characterization others have made that anyone who doesn't agree that everyone should express their contempt to all and sundry as loudly as they can in person is a "defender" or "boot-licker".  It is what it is and we will just have to accept what we are willing to or not, as a personal decision.

But no one is calling you a "bootlicker" or a "defender" here.  Read my original post.  My intent was to create a civil discussion over a concern a lot of fans have.  For the most part, that is what we have here.  If you're not concerned, you are welcome to stop replying. It's simple as that.  Though, I enjoy most of your posts, so don't let me stop you from saying your peace.  I know you're a huge fan and ultimately do care about her career. :08:

What can we do?  Well, I personally think it IS totally in our control.  Speaking out and eventually stop attending her shows.  That's what will happen if she continues to "not care".  That's a real consequence and I don't see why we should just sit by and "accept it" when we are paying big money to see her.  After all, we're her consumers. WIthout us, she's nothing!  You can't ignore that fact.

Truth be told, I see some fan's point in her being mean-spirited, making fun of what people earn and being insulting.  I understand that she has a sharp wit humor, and I can ignore that issue, but I can see how things add up for others.  It's just not die hard fans who go to her shows.  But even then, more and more fans are getting fed up.  They should speak out. After all, if it was anything else, like bad customer service at a store, or your food delivery was late or cold, or a half of million other things, I'm sure you wouldn't just sit idly by and say nothing. Madonna's lateness and attitude about it, is no different.

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2 hours ago, madenis said:

I don't care if she's coming on stage at midnight. Ok it could be hard the next day to wake up but it's occasionnal. We live in a world full of people complaining.

I agree about the transport problem however especially in the end of fall and winter. Her team should do something on this point.

I'm going to see her in Paris with my boyfriend and my best friend. They are not fans but I'm pretty sure they don't mind to wait till she appears on stage

You’re the reason she’s been allowed to behave like this 

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7 hours ago, LikeAMelody said:

 

I went off topic but I wanted to point out that what people found fun or attractive about Madonna has become null and void because of her age and not what she is doing wrong. 

I agree and also think it’s due to being so late when she starts because most shows start around 8-9 and end around 10:30 and she is starting around 11 or later when many people are very tired. Then when the show starts and the type of show Madame X is with a lot of talking and non-hits makes a bad combination for some of the GP

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25 minutes ago, professormouse said:

The Woman does a song about Gun/God Control.
I'm just waiting for her Man-ager to get the blame for this apparent fiasco.

Oh someone here (in another thread regarding this) is already blaming her management over it.  LOL!  I actually believe Guy is frustrated over it.   He knows Madonna is damaging her reputation as a touring artist here.

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1 hour ago, MarXus said:

Oh someone here (in another thread regarding this) is already blaming her management over it.  LOL!  I actually believe Guy is frustrated over it.   He knows Madonna is damaging her reputation as a touring artist here.

Madge is no baby.
As Kylie once said, she gets the same things done with a lot less noise.
I just wondered.
Plus the age thing is as pathetic as the 'you all hate wimmin' bell.
Candi & Dionne are still gadding about and are almost old-er enough to be Madge's Mother.
They still turn up on time ?

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