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MarXus
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On 11/25/2019 at 9:59 AM, Ashley said:

I remember the LAP/Pepsi controversy and it was clear it benefited her career immensely at the time. 

The biggest I was have to say was the release of SEX. Culturally this was released during the feminist sex wars and both the conservatives and sex negative feminists just did not know how to handle the situation. It was clear everyone was confronted and confabulated that a female personality would even dare release such a book. 

Yet even though it brought M a lot of pain and reputational damage. The book is a culturally watershed moment in western pop culture and should be considered a work of art in its own right. Pop music hasn't been the same since, Miley Cyrus would never have gotten away with her antics if M didn't break ground with releasing SEX and Erotica. 

 

 

 

Why you all praise 'SEX' book so much?

'since, Miley Cyrus would never have gotten away with her antics if M didn't break ground with releasing SEX and Erotica.'

was this good for popular culture? i don't think so

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17 hours ago, into the erotico said:

'since, Miley Cyrus would never have gotten away with her antics if M didn't break ground with releasing SEX and Erotica.'

was this good for popular culture? i don't think so

I think a lot of what has gone on by Pop stars in recent years reflects society's or the media's "idea" of what Madonna was doing.  They often compare the side antics of  Pop stars to Madonna.  That in itself is a kinda art work unwittingly on display. She used a perfect word a few years ago when she said "reductive" describing a simplifying of her work like "this is all it is, and there is no depth to what Madonna was doing."

What is interesting is all the people that have been compared to Madonna in recent years really do not remind me of her as an artist. They are just singers which is fine but comparing thier "stunts" to Madonna basically is an attempt to reduce her work. The artists of recent years and thier formula driven music producers just do not get the artist Madonna is. I would hope to see a crop of new artists who truly remind me of Madonna. 

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On 11/28/2019 at 3:40 AM, LikeAMelody said:

I think a lot of what has gone on by Pop stars in recent years reflects society's or the media's "idea" of what Madonna was doing.  They often compare the side antics of  Pop stars to Madonna.  That in itself is a kinda art work unwittingly on display. She used a perfect word a few years ago when she said "reductive" describing a simplifying of her work like "this is all it is, and there is no depth to what Madonna was doing."

What is interesting is all the people that have been compared to Madonna in recent years really do not remind me of her as an artist. They are just singers which is fine but comparing thier "stunts" to Madonna basically is an attempt to reduce her work. The artists of recent years and thier formula driven music producers just do not get the artist Madonna is. I would hope to see a crop of new artists who truly remind me of Madonna. 

I actually see little bits and pieces of Madonna in many younger acts, especially when putting together a visual to either their look, persona or videos.  Not just female either.  I think of someone like Adam Lambert who seems to have a strong sense of vision and determination like Madonna does.  Katy Perry in some ways reminds me a lot of Madonna because she has a lot of drive and motivation and depends a lot on visual aspects and being quirky. Of course, Madonna isn't quirky in the sense she is, but they both have this way about themselves that make some want to pay attention to them.  Katy is more on the goofier side who probably doesn't take herself as seriously as Madonna does.   

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On 11/29/2019 at 10:39 AM, MarXus said:

I actually see little bits and pieces of Madonna in many younger acts, especially when putting together a visual to either their look, persona or videos.  Not just female either.  I think of someone like Adam Lambert who seems to have a strong sense of vision and determination like Madonna does.  Katy Perry in some ways reminds me a lot of Madonna because she has a lot of drive and motivation and depends a lot on visual aspects and being quirky. Of course, Madonna isn't quirky in the sense she is, but they both have this way about themselves that make some want to pay attention to them.  Katy is more on the goofier side who probably doesn't take herself as seriously as Madonna does.   

That is just surface stuff. Intellectually I can't think of anyone who reminds me of her. Visuals and drive maybe but again that is on the surface. Should Madonna not take herself seriously because she is not a one dimensional woman? 

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3 hours ago, LikeAMelody said:

That is just surface stuff. Intellectually I can think of anyone who reminds me of her. Visuals and drive maybe but again that is on the surface. Should Madonna not take herself seriously because she is not a one dimensional woman? 

Well, we don't know enough about some of the other women to really judge.  Though, I've seen enough documentaries and behind the scenes to know Katy Perry is pretty intellectual.  Also, Lady Gaga is highly intellectual as well.  She might be a bit off her rocker, but there are plenty of highly intelligent people who are a bit nuts.  Some think Madonna isn't a bit nutty too.  It's all one's perception.  Nothing wrong with taking one seriously as long as you're able to balance it out with being fun too. 

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21 hours ago, MarXus said:

Well, we don't know enough about some of the other women to really judge.  Though, I've seen enough documentaries and behind the scenes to know Katy Perry is pretty intellectual.  Also, Lady Gaga is highly intellectual as well.  She might be a bit off her rocker, but there are plenty of highly intelligent people who are a bit nuts.  Some think Madonna isn't a bit nutty too.  It's all one's perception.  Nothing wrong with taking one seriously as long as you're able to balance it out with being fun too. 

"We" don't? I do not consider a "Trump" kind of con artist intellectual. 

As far as balancing I think Madonna does a fine job. I find the twitter feeds and forums of other artists I like are going on and on about thier genius and thier humility too. This is from thier own twitter. It's a huge turn off. 

No one reminds me of Madonna and I can not wait until someone does. 

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52 minutes ago, LikeAMelody said:

"We" don't? I do not consider a "Trump" kind of con artist intellectual. 

As far as balancing I think Madonna does a find job. I find the twitter feeds and forums of other artists I like are going on and on about thier genius and thier humility too. This is from thier own twitter. It's a huge turn off. 

No one reminds me of Madonna and I can not wait until someone does. 

"Trump kind?"  What or who are we talking about here?  Even so, intelligence doesn't mean you have to agree with their politics.

Anyway, we all are multifaceted, so I do see many who remind me of Madonna.  Surely, not the whole Madonna we love and enjoy, but I don't really feel any person can be truly like another. Also, no one is truly intellectual on all things.  Madonna certainly isn't, and no one I've named are either.  There's more to just intellect that makes people similar or what may remind another of someone else.

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8 minutes ago, MarXus said:

"Trump kind?"  What or who are we talking about here?  Even so, intelligence doesn't mean you have to agree with their politics.

Anyway, we all are multifaceted, so I do see many who remind me of Madonna.  Surely, not the whole Madonna we love and enjoy, but I don't really feel any person can be truly like another. Also, no one is truly intellectual on all things.  Madonna certainly isn't, and no one I've named are either.  There's more to just intellect that makes people similar or what may remind another of someone else.

Madonna certainly isn't? At least she has something to say...challenges herself as well as others and was academically succesful. I'm sick of her being compared to a bunch of people who basically have nothing to say but everyone acts like they do and all these self absorbed "geniuses" clinging to them.  I am sick of this whole scene. I'm bored with it. Turn the page. 

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23 hours ago, LikeAMelody said:

Madonna certainly isn't? At least she has something to say...challenges herself as well as others and was academically succesful. I'm sick of her being compared to a bunch of people who basically have nothing to say but everyone acts like they do and all these self absorbed "geniuses" clinging to them.  I am sick of this whole scene. I'm bored with it. Turn the page. 

Again, I'm baffled by your Trump inclusion and what that has to do with anything we were talking about?  Still, you realize we're just sharing our opinions.  I'm open to believe there are plenty of female artists who are intelligent and challenges themselves in ways Madonna may have.  I'm not such a fan boy to believe no one can be compared to her, whether it's in intelligence or certain aspect of their career. Certainly, Madonna beats to her own drum, and no one is exacly like her, but there are plenty of determined entertainers that are similar to Madonna. There are plenty of entertainers that remind me of Madonna in some aspect or another.  Though, I don't think of anyone who is exactly her equal. 

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A large chunk of pop culture, including pop music, has turned similar to American culture towards assumed, deep Disney-fried fakery, I get the “Trump” correlation. Right place right time and in his case right money in Madonna’s case right talent. Madonna had the right mix of fuck you punk and fuck me disco at the right time when even both of those scenes have since become more legend and without a modern comparison. Even most “EDM” is corporate. On controversy, consider the gold standard Madonna wanna-bes, former Mickey Mouse Clubbers Britney and Christina both gave Madonna their essence at that award show during that song about Hollywood and really neither have been the same since ? and neither should have come anywhere near that wedding cake.

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/24/2019 at 10:47 AM, Enrico said:

I would recall the controversy of M kissing on the lips the boy from Open your heart video (Felix Howard) and Chris Finch during the WTG Tour:

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Seems so innocent now, but it looked so daring at the time!

I don't think this would go down well today.  I agree it was completely innocent, but I'm shocked people having used this against her today, especially the last pic you posted. If a grown man did that to a young girl on stage today, it would be the end for them.

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11 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

Despite the public reaction at that time I think nowadays the Sex book is one of her most celebrated works amongst fans and the LGBT community. It’s one of her career defining moments.

The fact she was able to bounce back from that illustrated her star power and talent.

I don't believe it's her "most celebrated" or that career defining.  If anything, she pushed the sexual imagery a bit too far and got a lot of backlash for it.  I certainly agree she bounced back quite nicely.   

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