Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues

No hating but...what happened to Madonna after 2007?

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I think you are right on several levels for how Madonna has changed. Then again, is it that she's changed or has she just taken some falls (like we all do) and she doesn't want or hasn't figured out a way to get through them yet? Though one thing is for sure.... this woman is a warrior and the same goes for finding herself, reinventing herself, and her art.  This era ( and maybe some before that) may not be the best for many fans, but, it doesn't mean she's finished or that she or her music has changed for the worst. I do think she's being represented and managed poorly and for a while now which is a big part of it all. I really hope she makes some serious changes. Thanks for your compassionate writing.

Adding: what's next for her? I hope for a new greatest hits compilation and an arena tour in all of her grandest. And SOON ....like in the next two years. 

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These types of threads are so dangerous lol

I have my theories (and my arsenal of witty responses to casual snark by non-fans as we all do) but at the end of the day the person behind the celebrity calls the shots and we all know how observant she can be when she wants to be. It’s her world.

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1 hour ago, Voguerista said:

I think you are right on several levels for how Madonna has changed. Then again, is it that she's changed or has she just taken some falls (like we all do) and she doesn't want or hasn't figured out a way to get through them yet? Though one thing is for sure.... this woman is a warrior and the same goes for finding herself, reinventing herself, and her art.  This era ( and maybe some before that) may not be the best for many fans, but, it doesn't mean she's finished or that she or her music has changed for the worst. I do think she's being represented and managed poorly and for a while now which is a big part of it all. I really hope she makes some serious changes. Thanks for your compassionate writing.

Adding: what's next for her? I hope for a new greatest hits compilation and an arena tour in all of her grandest. And SOON ....like in the next two years. 

A greatest hits tour would be awesome!

Get some good vocal training and just perform the hits how they are originally!

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Yeah, I see this thread getting ugly.  All I am going to say is; even if there was something amiss with her these days, we've had a good run of entertainment and music from her. 4 decades and not many entertainers can claim that.

I don't necessarily agree things have gone down hill for her in the past years.  I also don't think her management is really the problem. After all, she's totally in charge.  I know some hate Guy O., but he's been wanting to do more with her past work (like most fans want), but Madonna is preventing that from happening. She's always had a keen sense in business as Guy O.  Of course, nothing is perfect.  Nothing is always guaranteed.  Though, she's hardly living in the poor house.  She's still touring and recording music that she wants to record despite what some fans think.  In the end, it's her ship.  It's bound to hit some icebergs.  No one can bat a 1000 all the time.  I think some fans get stuck in an era or two and enjoy and want her to keep producing that same sort of magic.  Sorry, that's not Madonna.  She evolves and I think some fans have a hard time doing the same. All I know is that I still enjoy her very much.  That's what I try to concentrate on.  I don't believe worrying about Madonna's career at this point is something we should concern ourselves with especially when there are far more important things to worry about.  I prefer to enjoy what she gives us, than pick apart what isn't perfect. After all, I've enjoy so much from her, more than not.

What's next?  I'm sure something fantastic and enjoyable like all her past work.  I'm sure she's going to take some time to get her health back on track, and then probably look into doing a film.  Then an album again. 

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Personally I have loved the Madame X era, yes the tour has been a disaster in places but I think the album is up there with Confessions and ROL in terms of her being experimental. It's a massive improvement on MDNA and Rebel Heart in my opinion, to be honest anything would be better than MDNA, it's the only Madonna album I just cannot listen to at all. 

When she experiments like this I feel like she produces her best work and I honestly believe she still has one more ground breaking era in her yet. I'd love her to go back to her roots and work with producers from the first album or Stuart Price again, that would be amazing.

Oh and I love her but she desperately needs to get some vocal training, she's definitely not looking after her voice as well as she used to! :smokey:

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1 hour ago, PaperFaces said:

Thats like looking at the Madonna from “Lucky Star”, and seeing the Madonna from “Erotica” and asking “What happened to her?”.

Madonna’s just done something alot of us fail to do: evolve.

I knew someone would post something like this. My original post is bigger than that. I see a woman with determination in both those years you mention. I see someone with a hunger and someone who knew what she was doing. Someone that even if you didn't like her, or even cared for her, you could see she knew what she was doing, had an audience and respected it and "fed" it as well. One was simply more mature than the other. But both were totally in control of their careers. That's not happening in 2019. 

Going from a stable relationship, respecting her audiences, presenting tours that you know people will care, going fully prepared for televised performances in your 40's to going to boy toys 40 years younger than you, changing your body / face, wearing grillz, padding in your ass, making tours 80% with album tracks, half-assed performances like Eurovision, the one she did with Drake, the Billboard awards and making her biggest fans waiting 3 hours for a show isn't evolving. Sounds more like de-volving for me both in terms of confidence in your appearance, in knowledge of your own business, etc. As you age you're supposed to become more confident, wiser, etc...this isn't happening to her, clearly. 

I thought i made it clear in the OP, sorry.

Edited by Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues

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The post-2006 mega-stans seem to often use the argument that her divorce and Hard Candy-onwards was just Madonna returning to form, since her English Housewife era was the "restrained and unhappy" Madonna.

To those fans I'd like to ask -- If that's the case, let's say she didn't meet Guy Ritchie? Where would her career have gone? 

I've also noticed a substantial difference in how she used to perform -- She seems so much less confident nowadays. She used to absolutely nail the facial expressions, the confidence, and rhythm. Confessions is the type of show I would have predicted she'd still be able to put on nowadays. It was mostly posing, lots of walking, and the occasional dance break, much like Madame X today. The difference is that she's missing the production, the flow / storyline, innovative mixes, creative team, and overall "X Factor" that she once had on stage. I can't remember what other member it was here (or maybe another forum), but to the person who said "I still love her but no longer feel that same starstruck, larger than life feeling seeing her", I agree. There's something just....different about her as a star nowadays. Almost like the mystique is all gone. 

Part of what defined Madonna as this larger than life star is that she was untouchable and bold, even in the darkest of times. Maybe the divorce was what she felt was her first real "failure" in her life, causing her to stumble and lose that perfect image along the way that so much of the General Public / fans used to adore? Dare I say she became human to a lot of us?

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7 minutes ago, techno101 said:

The post-2006 mega-stans seem to often use the argument that her divorce and Hard Candy-onwards was just Madonna returning to form, since her English Housewife era was the "restrained and unhappy" Madonna.

To those fans I'd like to ask -- If that's the case, let's say she didn't meet Guy Ritchie? Where would her career have gone? 

I've also noticed a substantial difference in how she used to perform -- She seems so much less confident nowadays. She used to absolutely nail the facial expressions, the confidence, and rhythm. Confessions is the type of show I would have predicted she'd still be able to put on nowadays. It was mostly posing, lots of walking, and the occasional dance break, much like Madame X today. The difference is that she's missing the production, the flow / storyline, innovative mixes, creative team, and overall "X Factor" that she once had on stage. I can't remember what other member it was here (or maybe another forum), but to the person who said "I still love her but no longer feel that same starstruck, larger than life feeling seeing her", I agree. There's something just....different about her as a star nowadays. Almost like the mystique is all gone. 

Part of what defined Madonna as this larger than life star is that she was untouchable and bold, even in the darkest of times. Maybe the divorce was what she felt was her first real "failure" in her life, causing her to stumble and lose that perfect image along the way that so much of the General Public / fans used to adore? Dare I say she became human to a lot of us?

I agree the "Confessions" era stans have a completely different point of view about her.

And yes, she became human. I liked the mystique but at the end of the day, i still adore the woman. The tour was amazing, the album was amazing. That it what matters at the end of the day, at least to me. 

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3 hours ago, Fighter said:

Life happened 🤷‍♂️

I think her post 2007 self is very similar to the early 90s with lots of acting out and driving people away. It's just that back then she "cleaned up her act" and made good choices, had good breaks and was able to have a comeback. That hasn't happened in the last 10+ years. I guess W.E./MDNA were supposed to be a strategic move but it didn't work out as both had mixed reception, after that it's been an album with a lot of wait and without any build up every 3/4 years while the internet-era press eviscerates her for being human. 

I guess my point is that not being able to have a lucky break in so long hasn't been fun for her, at least she still puts out great music, great videos and great shows, which is more than enough for me. 

This.

We (and the general public) used to think Mrs. Ritchie was a grown up Madonna but as soon as she divorced she came back to her old self. That means she was simply compromising during her second marriage and not being fully herself. All she got from it was her husband cheating and walking away with a lot of HER money so she was obviously pissed off.

I watched the "I'm Going To Tell You A Secret" documentary the other day for the first time in ages and it's super sad to see it now. He treated her like shit.

Anyway, she's a 60 year old woman with a stunning career, a happy family life (apart from the Rocco stuff) and no major drama in her life. And still creative. I think we should celebrate that, not thinking why she's not the same as 20 years ago, cause we all have changed too.

Edited by Prayer

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Totally agree. Everything changed after the Live Earth performance. I love much of her post-Confessions work but, generally she went down a path that I didn't necessarily want to follow. She comes across as if she's trying to hard now. The weirdest thing for me, is when I watch interviews with her from the 90s and how intelligent and mature she was. Not bratty but confident and thoughtful. It's like she regressed to that young woman who did that 1985 MTV interview where she's sat twirling her hair around her finger.

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When Molly Meldrum announced (a little too early) that Madonna was going to tour Australia in 2009 on the second leg of her S&S tour, he let slip that Guy Ritchie basically wanted her to look a certain way, keep her hair a certain length, dress a certain way and she couldn't tour long periods of time because he didn't like it. It was classic Molly running his mouth off, but it revealed so much about that union.

How would he know? I hear you ask. Molly finds out everything about everyone. Let's face it, she has never said a bad word about Sean Penn or Carlos (two of the other long term relationships she had) but she seemed so angry at Guy.

I think when you have been in a controlling marriage and get out, you go a bit crazy with freedom. I also think you tend to close yourself off from everything and put yourself in a bubble more and more. She rarely goes out unless it is work. I remember her saying that she didn't want to be Elvis or MJ, shut off from the world, but that is where she has landed.

When she said Pharell made her cry in the studio and later that she had to chase after Diplo to get him in the studio, I thought, who is this woman, what happened? This is not Madonna. She would never put up with that bull in the past. NEVER

I don't think Guy O is the problem in the way others do, I think he is just whipped and does whatever Madonna wants, even if it isn't what is best for her career. He really seems more like a business manager, his main goals are get to #1, no matter the cost. Anyone see her attitude towards him when they celebrated MDNA going to #1, like she wanted to kill him, and I am not joking, she seemed pissed off.

Lastly her attitude has changed. I'm sorry but crying censorship just because a venue cut you off, when you knew they would do that, when it was a business decision, a decision that was made clear to her, as it had been previously when she chose to ignore it and suffered similar consequences, well it is just odd. She made it seem like she was protesting about concentration camps in Auschwitz and being silenced. She never used to take herself that seriously before. It's just a pop show, as great as it is and as much joy as it is bringing to people. The world isn't going to end because you get cut off 5 min before your show is about to end.

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3 minutes ago, me1981 said:

When Molly Meldrum announced (a little too early) that Madonna was going to tour Australia in 2009 on the second leg of her S&S tour, he let slip that Guy Ritchie basically wanted her to look a certain way, keep her hair a certain length, dress a certain way and she couldn't tour long periods of time because he didn't like it. It was classic Molly running his mouth off, but it revealed so much about that union.

Wow, I actually wasn’t aware of this, and it’s so interesting to read this now so thank you. It definitely felt like Hard Candy and Sticky & Sweet Tour were almost like acts of rebellion against Guy. Doing a longer tour when he wanted her to do shorter tours, being more revealing in her outfits, making an album that appeals more to the North America and urban market. 

Honestly, I do love the Madonna from the 2000s and I think it was an era that gave us some of her very best bodies of work, however it’s clear to see that her persona whilst married to Guy was mostly a facade, and I think from 2008 onwards we’ve seen her break away from that and evolve as a person. Commercially things may have gone downhill, but I suppose as well as other factors that have contributed to this, it’s just how the industry works. But as a person, I think we are just seeing who she really is now, which is a rebel. :Madonna018:

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What's wrong with having a toy boy at 60?! :Madonna033:

She clearly is a very sexual person and has a high sex drive, most men of her age wouldn't be able to keep up.

So if she wants to go to bed with a younger handsome man leave her to it. She deserves it!!

Just because she is 60 doesn't mean she has to date someone who is 60. Age is just a number, why do you care so much? 

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Madonna has her ups and downs ..and I haven't always agreed with her decisions and beliefs, but, that's ok.  I'm still such a happy and proud fan. I've enjoyed so many endless hours of her music, tours, and videos(which have only gotten more magnificent over the years) and taken something great from every era ...even those I haven't liked as much as others. I'll be here for the long haul no matter what. 

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