No hating but...what happened to Madonna after 2007?

[poserdemadonna 1,630]

4 hours ago, Edina Monsoon said:

Why should she change just to please you? If you don't like the direction she has taken in recent years then step away. Simple. Madonna has always pissed people off. Imagine the meltdowns if forums had been around when she released Sex. And I hate to be presumptuous, but all I see here is a few men telling a woman what she should and shouldn't be doing with a touch of ageism thrown in. Exactly what she is fighting against.

I have to say I really LOLed at your username. I love AbFab, sweetie dahling!

[IamZod 596]

I don’t know why people always cite 2007 as the beginning of the end. Hard Candy was a great album, and very shrewd, let down by awful artwork. Confessions Part II was never going to happen. Sticky & Sweet was a huge tour.

 

 

 

[RUADJAI 14,933]

1 hour ago, clkelley39 said:

I think about this a lot. Why was "Give It 2 Me" released as a single instead of "Candy Shop"? .

Because Give it 2 Me is better. 

1 hour ago, clkelley39 said:

Why is she licking a scarf on the cover of the Hard Candy album? 

That's her taping her hands up for boxing.

1 hour ago, clkelley39 said:

 Why was "Celebration" the lead single from Celebration instead of "Revolver"? 

I think this answers itself. 

[RUADJAI 14,933]

First, I think a lot of what has been brought up can be chalked up to personal opinion. 

 

"Career wise she always progressed in terms of ideas and you could feel an artistic evolution from her first album until American Life."

This is your personal opinion of how things are/were. In reality she has always worked with producers and artists of the time period they were in. Some are a little disguised, such as I think she plucked Mirwais to give her a Daft Punk sound, or William Orbit to give her a certain sound that was prevalent (Dido, Olive). Confessions was no different as I think she was completely inspired by by 2004 Call on Me by Eric Pridz. Hoppin on Timberlake, Timbaland, and Pharell was only natural after Justin's Future Sex Love Sounds album, Timbalands work with Nelly Furtado blowing up everywhere, and Pharrell just being the unique artist he is. 

 

Re-Invention Tour and the Confessions era was her "damage control" phase and worked for her. 

Says who? Reinvention Tour was hardly safe, and to categorize Confessions as just 70's disco is delusional.  

 

"How did we go from this to wearing grillz",     Erotica gold tooth?

"dating boy toys,"      Dennis Rodman, Tony Ward, 2 Pac, Warren Beaty, Vanilla Ice, The Kennedy brother, 

"that Drake kiss,"        The Britney kiss???

"Bitch I'm Madonna phase,"   a good phase if you ask me

"whatever she did at that VMA award where she told that Aretha Franklin story that went nowhere while dressed like...that."

Let her feel her fantasy girl. She's 60 and inspired! Im half that and uninspired most of the time. 

"Going completely unprepared to Eurovision."   Have you ever heard her sing THAT bad before? You don't think that MAYBE just MAYBE she had a sound problem and couldn't hear herself?

 

And yes, she is different. I think her priorities have changed. Her kids are first. As much as YOU care about her legacy or her image, I can guarantee that she could give 2 fucks about that especially if she's focusing on her kids. 

 

So much more to write. So little inspiration to keep on....  

 

P.s. None of this is meant to be rude. 

 

 

 

[steady75 9,566]

LoveSpent & Rebel Heart are the two biggest missed opportunity singles of her entire career.

Iconic & I'm A Sinner next up

Body Shop & Devil Pray third swing

Imagine a post Celebration singles run of

1. Masterpiece
2. LoveSpent
3. I'm A Sinner
4. GMAYL
5. Rebel Heart
6. Devil Pray
7. Ghosttown
8. Bitch I'm Madonna
9. Body Shop
10. Medellin
11. God Control
12. Crave
13. Future

 

They make me miss Warner so bad

 

[MarXus 92]

6 hours ago, kesiak said:

Well it's actually you who mentions "boy toys" twice in your original post along with plastic surgery (twice again), the Drake kiss and wearing grills as examples of her "awful behaviour" and how she's changed for the worse. 

What nobody says is that you don't have the right to open up a topic like this. Type away. But people are also free to disagree with you (not to state the obvious). The vibe I'm getting however is that of a well-meaning family relative who criticises your life choices every Christmas but when confronted say they're only doing it out of concern and love for you.

I do take issue with your generalisations in terms of her fanbase though cause I've actually loved this era and I know I'm not alone in this. There are plenty of things I didn't care about in her career but I love this album, the videos and especially the tour (and that comes from someone whose 3 out of 4 shows were cancelled, 2 last minute in Lisbon and 1 in London). 

Thank you for all your posts.  I've enjoyed everyone of them, and they probably are the most "voice of reason" posts in this thread.  I knew this thread may get ugly.  I guess it could have gone worse by now.  To me, I know we have some real passionate fans, but at the same time, I think some have these expectations that are just not realistic.  She's had 4 decades of great success to pretty decent success. I know the last few eras haven't really measured up to her past successes, but what huge star is able to maintain that sort of success all their career?  It's rare.  And honestly, she's probably gotten more attention to her work than most people still working in the business.  She's still making millions. I just think some feel that she should still be releasing top 40 singles and maintaining popular success when that's just unrealistic for someone that's been doing it for so long.  She has evolved and still is evolving. I'm sure her marriages changed her at the time, just like her divorces, but like some pointed out I feel that she is more like what she was in her younger years than during the years she was married. The difference is; she's older.  She's more experienced, and while she didn't give a fuck back then, she doesn't really give a fuck today.

One thing that has been a change for fans is social media. Before she seemed untouchable.  These days, like everyone, she uses social media to promote herself.  People feel closer to her.  Before if we heard anything how Madonna felt about, it took an interview or a press statement.  These days, she has social media to speak her mind, and it's far more accessible than doing scheduled interviews and making press statements.  She can communicate how she feels much more quicker and also show how vulnerable she really is. 

Her marriages obviously impacted her life.  When she was married to Guy Ritchie, I felt like she was far more super reserved. It still didn't stop her from speaking her mind, but now that she's divorced, and with social media, we've started seeing a more vulnerable side of her.  I think that's a good thing because for so long, she was coming off "ice cold".   It's nice to see a more human side of her.  I love how she shares her family with us and how much fun she's having with them as well as the frustrations and tribulations she may experience.

I agree her output for Madame X is probably far more experimental than she's ever been.  I'm not a fan of some of it, but I certainly do not think she's lost her touch. She's worked with different producers from album to album more than not.  She's never really duplicated a past era. This is what makes her stand out from a lot of other entertainers. 

Again, I do think some are having unrealistic high expectations for her.  I don't expect her to be as famous and successful as she used to be.  She isn't as "plastic" as some try to make her out to be.  She looks far much like her younger self if anything. Yes, she's had some cosmetic things done, but it's her business to try to look her best.  I'm sure some will have their opinion of that, but again, I don't see much complaint from Madonna.  I don't see her suffering financially.  She's just doing her thing and doesn't give a fuck (just like when she first emerged). In the end, I may not enjoy everything she does, but I've always enjoyed so much of her output, than not.  That's enough for me.  It's her life! Not mine!  I just follow it!  I don't dictate how she should live it.

 

[clkelley39 991]

4 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

Because Give it 2 Me is better. 

That's her taping her hands up for boxing.

I think this answers itself. 

rhe·tor·i·cal ques·tion

noun

a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.

[cosmic_system 3,154]

20 hours ago, Vinny Fonseca said:

 

When it´s a downward spiral it's called decadence. 

We're talking about Madonna, not about you.

[Scottyx 8,766]

Regardless, her interviews and musical appearances during the Ritchie years - she claimed to be happy. She looked happy. Healthy. Grown-up. Was she lying and putting on a front? I dunno but I liked that front.

[clkelley39 991]

We should not be very surprised that this 61 year old isn't as cool as she used to be. As we watch our rock stars age, it makes our own aging even more apparent, and it's hard to accept. I think that's what this whole thread amounts to. Most people don't give a shit about anything anymore at age 61. At least she's still trying, even if we think she may not be trying hard enough.

 

And let's knock it off with the criticisms of her face. Her face is 37 years older than it was when we first saw it. Of course it looks different. If she did nothing to her face people would be like, "Girl, you're rich, do something about those wrinkles! Remember back in the day when Madonna tried to look beautiful? I miss those days."

[PWCCA 2,498]

What happened after 2007? I'm not going to talk about the more personal aspects of her life (ie. face, family, ass...) as some others here have brought up... that is really no-ones business.... and for the most part, irrelevant to her music. In my observation, it all started to downhill after she left WB. Her departure from WB meant that she had the greater control over her creative output that she always wanted, however, with no-one to really reel her in from making bad creative decisions, she progressively began making music that sounded samey and 'cheap' which very few wanted to hear. This, as we already know, resulted in rapidly (and vastly) declining sales figures, albums that have charted dismally, and music that is largely forgettable. Perhaps her insistence for working with so many flavour-of-the-moment producers (whose moments have already long passed) to create music is what is really doing her so much damage, plus those old adages of 'too many cooks...' and 'too many fingers in too many pies' whenever she is preparing an album is resulting in albums that sound inconsistent and incoherent.

[PaperFaces 5,612]

Warner used to buy some of her chart positions.

And I remember a friend of mine telling me in 1992, when SEX and Erotica came out: "Her career is over. She's clearly just trying to piss people off. She doesnt care about her fans anymore."

So, he moved on from her. I didnt. And she has, since then, made new fans, who, at some point, will also question her choices. They just think theyre the first ones to come along and ask these questions.

Madonna has had fleeting moments of popularity: the first couple of years, Like a Prayer, Ray of Light, Confessions. But she's never been a very easy artist to digest (Ive said this before). When you know this, you stop making her artistic choices about you.

 

[PaperFaces 5,612]

I mean, go watch some of her older interviews from the 90's. People back then were saying the same thing about her they are today. They're just the loudest. 

And even Warner didnt know how to manage her during the Erotica years. 

We are very critical of artists these days like they answer to what we have to say about them. When in reality, they owe us nothing. When we fail to understand their choices, we think they fail us.

For all the criticism I read at the time for Rebel Heart and how it hadnt sold, when I was at the show, EVERYONE around me knew the words to Holy Water and Rebel Heart, and Devil Pray, etc. 

I remember thinking: ok, so people HAVE the album. They know the music.

 

[DiegoLCL 5,050]

1 hour ago, PWCCA said:

What happened after 2007? I'm not going to talk about the more personal aspects of her life (ie. face, family, ass...) as some others here have brought up... that is really no-ones business.... and for the most part, irrelevant to her music. In my observation, it all started to downhill after she left WB. Her departure from WB meant that she had the greater control over her creative output that she always wanted, however, with no-one to really reel her in from making bad creative decisions, she progressively began making music that sounded samey and 'cheap' which very few wanted to hear. This, as we already know, resulted in rapidly (and vastly) declining sales figures, albums that have charted dismally, and music that is largely forgettable. Perhaps her insistence for working with so many flavour-of-the-moment producers (whose moments have already long passed) to create music is what is really doing her so much damage, plus those old adages of 'too many cooks...' and 'too many fingers in too many pies' whenever she is preparing an album is resulting in albums that sound inconsistent and incoherent.

All of this!
Madonna does not work well without pressure and a need to prove herself, that's why she's trapped in this martyr facade saying that she's being censored and so on.
WB kept her more aware of the "outside world" and gave her the right fuel to thrive, it seems. Re-Invention/Confessions and Bedtime Stories/Something to Remember are good examples of this.
Waiting 4 years to follow up Hard Candy, which as not promoted at all, with another faceless album without promotion outside the Superbowl did nothing to her favor either, between those albums a lot happened in pop culture and she lost touch with a whole generation like never before, she was always on the radar before reminding the world of her capabilities. 

[survivalartist 6,463]

18 hours ago, clkelley39 said:

I think about this a lot. Why was "Give It 2 Me" released as a single instead of "Candy Shop"?

I think because she likely would have been destroyed by pop radio singing about Turkish Delight. 

Why is she licking a scarf on the cover of the Hard Candy album?

Insert muff joke here.

Why was "Celebration" the lead single from Celebration instead of "Revolver"?

Because the collection was titled Celebration and it was a great dance track, superior to MDNA and Hard Candy album tracks...

Also, this hardcore fan believes she has recovered significantly from MDNA & Hard Candy with RH and MX at least sonically. 

[Prayer 14,332]

On 2/12/2020 at 1:55 PM, PaperFaces said:

Warner used to buy some of her chart positions.

Well, any major record company will do whatever they can to sell their big acts. It was the same in the 90s with Mariah and it's the same now with Ariana Grande, Billie Eilish, etc. It's all business in the end (for the record company).

With Warner a huge promo was always guaranteed at least with the first single and album launch. Even with "American Life", the song and the flags video were everywhere until things started to slow down.

And the fact that "4 Minutes" or even "Celebration" (in the UK) were hits was almost a miracle. She was 49-50!

That's one of the issues with Interscope: they just distribute her music but she owns it, so they couldn't care less about it. They just distribute it with a minimal effort.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Prayer (see edit history)

[Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues 1,230]

23 hours ago, kesiak said:

Well it's actually you who mentions "boy toys" twice in your original post along with plastic surgery (twice again), the Drake kiss and wearing grills as examples of her "awful behaviour" and how she's changed for the worse. 

What nobody says is that you don't have the right to open up a topic like this. Type away. But people are also free to disagree with you (not to state the obvious). The vibe I'm getting however is that of a well-meaning family relative who criticises your life choices every Christmas but when confronted say they're only doing it out of concern and love for you.

I do take issue with your generalisations in terms of her fanbase though cause I've actually loved this era and I know I'm not alone in this. There are plenty of things I didn't care about in her career but I love this album, the videos and especially the tour (and that comes from someone whose 3 out of 4 shows were cancelled, 2 last minute in Lisbon and 1 in London). 

Yes...i do mention that in my text. Because it's sad to see her going down that road FOR ME. Where in that text did i say she shouldn't do all that? It's her life, her choices. As a fan it's only okay for me to not enjoy it and if i want to comment on that...it's my right to do so.

And yes, of course you can disagree with all of that post of mine, but me generalizing her fanbase...i mean...we got to the point Madonna is shitting on her biggest fans. It's clear a lot of people are frustrated with her this era and how this tour is being handled. Never in a million years ever did i expect a Madonna tour to be this dramatic.

I mean...i'm clearly not alone. She was performing in stadiums 10 years ago and she's loving fado bars so much that next era she might be performing at bars exactly. She's been alienating her fanbase for years. It's quite obvious. Of course she's always going to have the diehard fans show up at her shows...but she's gaining a reputation of being unprofessional, hours late, and now...canceling shows left and right. These are simply facts. Her touring numbers don't lie. And yes...she will tour arenas i'm sure...and it's not all bad. Once the woman hits that stage it's all amazing. Her voice is better than...since Drowned World Tour (fight me on this tbh). Her presence is still all there and i loved going to the Madame X tour. It's the lead up to the shows that have gone wrong.

All of this could be corrected of course...this isn't all "doom & gloom" for Madonna and not all is her fault. But a lot of it is. And going on Instagram posting videos on how "a queen is never late" after making people wait 3 hours for her show with no phones, no AC on, no nothing...she's really not helping is she? 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues (see edit history)

[poserdemadonna 1,630]

16 hours ago, steady75 said:

LoveSpent & Rebel Heart are the two biggest missed opportunity singles of her entire career.

Iconic & I'm A Sinner next up

Body Shop & Devil Pray third swing

Imagine a post Celebration singles run of

1. Masterpiece
2. LoveSpent
3. I'm A Sinner
4. GMAYL
5. Rebel Heart
6. Devil Pray
7. Ghosttown
8. Bitch I'm Madonna
9. Body Shop
10. Medellin
11. God Control
12. Crave
13. Future

 

They make me miss Warner so bad

 

Don't. They're the main reason Hard Candy became the mess it turned out to be.

[Scottyx 8,766]

Does anyone think Madonna is not proud of her albums? The way we talk around here is like we have no regard for her work. It would be entertaining to see some people sit face to face with her and boldly rip things apart as is done behind the guise of a computer or smartphone.

[steady75 9,566]

Calm down dear you’ll give yourself a nosebleed ;-p

[Scottyx 8,766]

6 minutes ago, steady75 said:

Calm down dear you’ll give yourself a nosebleed ;-p

If that was for me, I am calm. Calm as a long thick cucumber.

 

[steady75 9,566]

22 minutes ago, ScottyX said:

If that was for me, I am calm. Calm as a long thick cucumber.

 

? xx

[Andymad 10,344]

On 2/11/2020 at 8:22 AM, Can-We-Get-Together said:

What's wrong with having a toy boy at 60?!

Mmmmm... toy boy

[Andymad 10,344]

On 2/11/2020 at 8:22 AM, Can-We-Get-Together said:

What's wrong with having a toy boy at 60?!

Mmmmm... toy boy

[Jackie 8,060]

6 hours ago, diegolcl said:

All of this!
Madonna does not work well without pressure and a need to prove herself, that's why she's trapped in this martyr facade saying that she's being censored and so on.
WB kept her more aware of the "outside world" and gave her the right fuel to thrive, it seems. Re-Invention/Confessions and Bedtime Stories/Something to Remember are good examples of this.
Waiting 4 years to follow up Hard Candy, which as not promoted at all, with another faceless album without promotion outside the Superbowl did nothing to her favor either, between those albums a lot happened in pop culture and she lost touch with a whole generation like never before, she was always on the radar before reminding the world of her capabilities. 

Well, not so true. She did other stuff that she wanted to do, she directed three movies - I am Because We Are, Filth and Wisdom and W.E. 

I thought MDNA was a great album! So she didn't promote it, she promoted the fuck out of Rebel Heart - it literally made 0 impact! lol.