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No hating but...what happened to Madonna after 2007?


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50 minutes ago, dankpepe said:

I agree that there was a lot of trying with RH but with the amount of tracks recorded she didn't really get a chance to devote herself to a small number of tracks. Sort of spreading herself too thin with many tracks that should've been shelved. There was something there when listening to some demos but then everything got over produced leaving some tracks feeling flat from their demo versions (WAOM, Inside Out, RH, Joan of Arc, etc). Then there was talk that she wanted Disclosure to come in and rework some tracks even after Avicii, Diplo, Kanye, and others dabbled with them. There didn't seem to be a clear direction with RH.

agree

50 minutes ago, dankpepe said:

Personally, I know we'll disagree on this, but I don't think Madame X was a success in its delivery. The concept sounds good on paper but wasn't fully fleshed out. She could've done so much with the idea of identity and the different personas but never fully went that route (random VR Madonnas at the BBMA - what is this supposed to be?? Accordion playing Madonna doing the funky chicken?)

Maybe not in its promotion but musically it succeeded where her previous few albums didn't. I would've liked to see more of the personas that were teased but that's separate from the album itself.

50 minutes ago, dankpepe said:

And the sound on MX wasn't anything new in my opinion. IDSIF sounds like Runaway Lovers. Bitch I'm Loca, Future, Crave, and I Rise could've all been RH tracks. GC sounds too disjointed.

Why does it have to be new? new to whom... she never did songs like Killers Who Are Partying or an experiment like Dark Ballet or Batuka. God Control is eclectic. IDSAF is supposed to be a retro type of track. Future is what Unapologetic Bitch wanted to be. I agree that I Rise is more Rebel Hearty but the production is not overdone so. I wish there had been more songs like Bitch I'm Loca on RH, that album needed more fun songs. 

50 minutes ago, dankpepe said:

I think many fans are still in the honeymoon phase of MX since its new which is why many see it as a return to form and innovative. But that's my view, I know we'll disagree.

The way this era has gone there's definitely no honeymoon phase lol. I can see myself listening to Madame X for years to come, especially after the era is over and things calm down. I'm not really in love with her at the moment so I truthfully think it is a great record. :laughing: 

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Topics like this are hilarious. One's "decline in originality" is another's favourite and most creative thing ever.

I often say to people who complain about "post Hard Candy" Madonna that perhaps you have just lost your interest in her naturally, which is fine, I used to love certain artists and then they just start to bore me for whatever reason. This probably happened to you with Madonna because Hard Candy just wasn't your taste and now everything is compared to Confessions etc (which I find to be some of her weakest and least creative work to date myself)... 

Madonnas entire life changed post 2007, she divorced, she was a single mother of young kids, she finished with a record company shed been with for decades, the pop landscape was changing and she was about to turn 50. Perhaps she just wants to enjoy life and not be as tied down to rules and convention or worry about who she is going to please or piss off?

Hard Candy while being modern sounding at the time is also a complete 80s dance throw back album. It's probably in my top 3 favourite albums because It so seamlessly mixed old school cool with the new sound at the time, and Madonna was on top of her game yet again after the lacklustre grab at a hit that was Confessions. Sure, Confessions waa successful and I have a feeling that if MDNA/Rebel Heart/Madame X were also commercially successful, a lot of naysayers would be stating its her best work ever like they do with Confessions... just a thought.

And any comment about her appearance or what she does or doesn't wear is embarrassing... she can do what she wants and who she wants, just like you can do the same. If you find it not to your taste, again, move on from Madonna and try Cyndi Lauper or someone of the same era to follow, it may work out better for you in the long run because Madonna's career from now on is going to be a very bumpy ride but I can't wait for it!

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It's the nature of any great artist that they must face more dry periods in the publics perceptions. But as much as these periods begin, culture is re-evaluated, new cycles begin and then they're back in favour. It's the flux of fame and creativity and no one is exempt.

One other key truth of artistry is what tends to be an artists biggest strength will often turn into their biggest flaw. Madonna is such a stark example of this, in that her brilliant refusal to look back has carved out a magificent legacy but has often lead her in more recent times to keep pushing forward when thats is maybe not the wisest decision. But again, it's the nature of many artists and often these periods get more praise with context and re-evaluation.

Personally I feel the truly spectaculor magic was from 86-95 but I can still enjoy many of the other projects for what they are. After all, no one artist can speak to any person at every single stage of their life, it's an unfair expectation.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

From the end of the promo of American life she had a lot of low-cost videos:
Love profusion (really cheap CGI that look dated even back in the day), Get together (wonderful song, lazy video because she didn't have time), Jump (same as Get together but probably worst), Give it 2 me (horrible), MILES AWAY (HORROR), CELEBRATION (a disaster, it also showcased her dancers surrounding her, and her bubble of I'm the Queen that comes with her in every tour).

She thought that she could do no wrong, and relaxed A LOT about the videos. Her videos were a central force on her career but she didn't pay attention to them anymore. Not even the fans, who were repeating everywhere that videos were a thing of the past, and also records... and everyone were obsessed with the words TOUR TOUR, TOURING AND LIVE NATION... and 360 DEAL. 

So it was the perfect storm that made the general public starting to see how Gaga, Rihanna and others were really advanced in terms of releasing good visuals, and Madonna was back behind with her cheap white walls and low definition everywhere (just check the Celebration video on youtube). 

By the time that the SuperBowl came, the damage was done. On the Interscope days she did good videos again, but nothing epic compared to what was on the industry at that time or compared to her early days. 



 

Edited by nito84bcn (see edit history)
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But music videos in general were worse in 2005-2009, the old industry model was collapsing and record companies didn't invest in them anymore. If you watch "Umbrella", "I Kissed A Girl", etc. they're all not so expensive videos. It wasn't until Gaga (she was putting her own money to pay them) and all the product placements that videos started to "grow" again.

Anyway, she's always been practical with music videos, cause Warner gave them the money to do them BUT she ended up paying for them in the end with her royalties (that's the way record companies worked). Even in the 80s she had "Crazy For You", "Live To Tell", "True Blue", "Who's That Girl", etc. She's always had more basic videos between great videos, but her 90s run was quite impressive in general, that is true.

Edited by Prayer (see edit history)
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8 minutes ago, Prayer said:

But music videos in general were worse in 2005-2009, the old industry model was collapsing and record companies didn't invest in them anymore. If you watch "Umbrella", "I Kissed A Girl", etc. they're all not so expensive videos. It wasn't until Gaga (she was putting her own money to pay them) and all the product placements that videos started to "grow" again.

 

But too bad that she wasn't the one who reinvented the wheel as before, it was Gaga and the rest... then she was behind, with her gang and her white walls as I said. 

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22 minutes ago, nito84bcn said:

But too bad that she wasn't the one who reinvented the wheel as before, it was Gaga and the rest... then she was behind, with her gang and her white walls as I said. 

Honestly, God Control is one of the most expensive music videos lately and Gaga is doing...Stupid Love Power Rangers crappy videos so...

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She is still amazing but I do agree she has lost something. She believed in people and they let her down. Madonna is an artist above everything but I do believe she also pursued fame to fulfill a void. In Drowned World she learns that fame is no "substitute for love"and put most of her energy into creating her "perfect life" only to have it dissolve. 

Around that time she had to deal with the knowledge that even changing for someone wasn't enough and all the blood sweat and tears of her career wasn't enough to prevent people from dropping her like a hot potato. They know who they are. 

I think Madonna has been in a somewhat bitterville state that I saw a lot of in MDNA and a little in Rebel Heart. I am happy to report that Madame X lacks the bitterness "but" there is a stubborn defiance borne out of sadness in it as well as an examination of where she was and how she got where she is. 

I think her children and her inspirations are her strength now. 

Motherhood is intact.?

Artististry is intact.?

Pop Icon status?? Does she care anymore? I don't think she holds it in high regard and has come to resent her need for fame that hasn't given her the unconditional love she sought. 

Just my thoughts....? Would love to know her thoughts on our thoughts. 

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On 2/24/2020 at 4:33 AM, cabbageboy said:

Madonna was on top of her game yet again after the lacklustre grab at a hit that was Confessions. Sure, Confessions waa successful and I have a feeling that if MDNA/Rebel Heart/Madame X were also commercially successful, a lot of naysayers would be stating its her best work ever like they do with Confessions... just a thought.

 

oh boy — that's purely based on your personal feelings.

critics and the general public praised COADF. it wasn't her most profound work, but it surely was finely executed and coherent.

with HC she followed a trend that was already dying. obviously with the records after that she became less relatable to the masses for whatever reasons.

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1 hour ago, nodoman said:

oh boy — that's purely based on your personal feelings.

critics and the general public praised COADF. it wasn't her most profound work, but it surely was finely executed and coherent.

with HC she followed a trend that was already dying. obviously with the records after that she became less relatable to the masses for whatever reasons.

I think some fans forget that even though S&S sparked her biggest tour ever, if they'd chosen to do a complete stadium tour for COADF, she probably would have far outdone S&S with The Confessions Stadium Tour. I'm not actually sure why they didn't.

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3 minutes ago, scion said:

I think some fans forget that even though S&S sparked her biggest tour ever, if they'd chosen to do a complete stadium tour for COADF, she probably would have far outdone S&S with The Confessions Stadium Tour. I'm not actually sure why they didn't.

I always questioned this too. She performed eight shows in London at Wembley Arena, and I always wondered why they never just did a few nights at Wembley Stadium. 
I doubt she’ll ever gross more than S&S now but she definitely could have with other tours. It is a shame because she deserves to have the highest-grossing tour of all time  :Madonna052:

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1 hour ago, scion said:

I think some fans forget that even though S&S sparked her biggest tour ever, if they'd chosen to do a complete stadium tour for COADF, she probably would have far outdone S&S with The Confessions Stadium Tour. I'm not actually sure why they didn't.

definitely. i remember so many non-fans were interested in it back then and even went to see her live.

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On 3/15/2020 at 3:00 AM, nodoman said:

oh boy — that's purely based on your personal feelings.

critics and the general public praised COADF. it wasn't her most profound work, but it surely was finely executed and coherent.

with HC she followed a trend that was already dying. obviously with the records after that she became less relatable to the masses for whatever reasons.

Well yes, its not based on your mother's neighbours feelings now is it :tongue:

Its all based on your own personal likes and dislikes. HC was also praised by critics, pretty much all critics praise what they are told to/paid to do or paid not to praise in some cases.

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On 2/22/2020 at 9:28 PM, Alibaba said:

With the exception of a few posts throughout these four pages, there is a fundamental lack of attention given to the primary issue here. It has less to do with Madonna changing, and more to do with the concept of fame changing post-digital revolution. Madonna's type of fame was truly exceptional for the longest time, but she aged out of the Zeitgeist when corporate interests no longer saw her preeminence as commercially useful. There was more money to be made from youth-oriented culture. Doing business with an artist of Madonna's stature would have meant profit margins for the corporate entities were diminished because she could take a larger stake herself. As the industry changed and panic kicked in regarding dwindling sales and illegal downloading, replacing artists like Madonna with green-eyed younger and more malleable acts would have been a natural shift. As it turned out, Madonna and Oseary were prescient and understood that they needed to strike while the commercial iron of touring receipts was hot, thus her 360 deal with Live Nation. Sidenote: Recording music hasn't been a valid source of income for Madonna for well over a decade; she herself decided to use her records as showcases for her live performances. She approached her creative flow as a Broadway director does. The music is the soundtrack to the show. No one seems to get this. Look at how this has become a more cynical template for less successful legacy acts who all have some type of dreadful Broadway adaptation of their back catalogs in the works.

As much as it upsets many of Madonna's fans to face this truth, most of them have long stopped being a core capitalist demographic. In fact, whenever I consider Madonna's modern legacy I am more fascinated by how limited many of her fans' perspective on her evolution is. I read endless posts about how she should be promoting her music as she did Ray of Light...That she would be better off returning to Warner Bros, as if nostalgia holds some sort of commercial magic wand in an era when almost no one sells music anymore! It shows a fundamental lack of comprehension that the world itself has drastically changed over the course of Madonna's career, and the fact that her phenomenal stamina managed to give her a somewhat imperialistic hold on global pop culture for two and a half decades is unprecedented. That's enough within itself to make everything she has done since that imperial phase ended worthy of admiration and a much kinder assessment, but there is so much more to explore here. 

There is no doubt that the public essentially wrote her off after she returned to her raunchier persona post-divorce.  One cannot deny the dismal showing of Celebration was more than a commercial embarrassment; it was a global smack in the face to the woman; age seemed to offer the world the chance to finally kick her where it hurt. 

I am more shocked by people's surprise at Madonna's healthy appetite for self-preservation through plastic surgery than by the results of the surgery. In an era of digital film and photography, no one can afford to show signs of obvious aging, and as one of the world's most photographed women whose career was built in great part on the promise of video as art form, it seems entirely logical that she would succumb to the pressures of the industry. Surely people aren't shocked to learn that Madonna is vain and a narcissist? 

Madonna explained herself most effectively during her promotion for her film W.E. I don't think many actually caught on at the time when she made parallels between herself and Wallis Simpson by describing the limiting views of the masses that prevent a public person from having more than one or two characteristics. It had long become painfully obvious that Madonna could not simultaneously and successfully be a provocative showwoman, a film director, a recording artist, an actress, a business owner, a good mother, and a human being with an evolving intellect...She therefore seemed to step back until she eventually found the best way to enable her own version of that narrative to thrive by inventing the Madame X character; an empty vessel capable of being anything she wants to be at any given fork in the road. Tears of a Clown was her first foray into meta-identity-fucking, and she knew all along that the only way forward was to leave the past and its intransigent inhabitants behind. I believe Madonna is a deconstructionist at this point in her life, fully in charge and fully self-aware. Whatever anyone else thinks of her is merely a projection of something deep within themselves. The need to denigrate her choices and their results is most probably more indicative of the audience's inability to move beyond preconceived notions and prejudice. After all, in a world of bullies, everyone is somehow still a victim. Madonna's greatest achievement is that she is a living work of art, full of contradictions and the ability to elicit the fullest emotional spectrum no matter the brush stroke. 

One of the best analyses I ever read on a Madonna board:fire:

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  • 4 months later...

Decided to keep this post alive due to recent events.

The ones that dragged me and said she's mentally stable...do you still keep thinking that?

Since this was made she did those covid 19 diaries, she did the bathtub video, and now says a vaccine for covid 19 is out there and the rich are fooling everyone. 2 months ago she posted of a video where she mentioned she was donating 1 million dollars to a vaccine of covid 19 to the Gates Foundation. 

It's really sad to witness what's happening to her...

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10 hours ago, Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues said:

Decided to keep this post alive due to recent events.

The ones that dragged me and said she's mentally stable...do you still keep thinking that?

Since this was made she did those covid 19 diaries, she did the bathtub video, and now says a vaccine for covid 19 is out there and the rich are fooling everyone. 2 months ago she posted of a video where she mentioned she was donating 1 million dollars to a vaccine of covid 19 to the Gates Foundation. 

It's really sad to witness what's happening to her...

So start to focus on your things and maybe u will stop feeling sad for her. I'm not saying this on a bad way, but she's human, proably if she had instagram from 1982 till 2010, she would have a lot of other mistakes. It's anything related to age, craziness or things like that, she had a good management back then and any social app... 
She had a mistake, she removed it 30 min later when she realised. That's it. 

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On 3/14/2020 at 6:36 PM, Nobody Knows Me said:

I always questioned this too. She performed eight shows in London at Wembley Arena, and I always wondered why they never just did a few nights at Wembley Stadium. 
I doubt she’ll ever gross more than S&S now but she definitely could have with other tours. It is a shame because she deserves to have the highest-grossing tour of all time  :Madonna052:

Apparently she was supposed to but the rebuilt stadium wasn't ready in time, hence the long run at the arena instead.

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In 2007, Madonna was elevated to "legend" and didn't have shit to prove to anyone.  Twenty five years from her debut single as a professional singer and she literally had broken every record...  M refocused her message to encompass more than her own myopic world and she never looked back. 

I, for one, would now find pre 2007 Madonna to be a major bore and I think that her music post 2007 is among her best.  Getting a Madame X rather than a Confessions 2.0 would be a real treat at this stage in anyone's career. Madonna evolves and thank god for that.  I wish that more stars would.  Dark Ballet is such a treat from the same singer who released Material Girl and Hanky Panky.  Borrowed Time became Madonna's new Human Nature.  And Falling Free her new mantra.   As Madonna has become more liberated, her artistry has thrived. I will take fresh and genuine over contrived and formula any day.  

It appears that Madonna grew tired of the merely parading around in corsets and crosses and decided to create something deeper with more longevity.  People will appreciate the new material in time and realize that the pop world became too small for her and not the reverse.  There is little doubt, to me, that M's post 2007 productions will breathe life into her "legend"  as soon as people catch up.  People are now rewarded for much smaller accomplishments than any that M has notched on her belt but that is okay with M.  She created those opportunities and had already perfected pop music.  2007 was a reawakening for Madonna and I have enjoy the journey. 

The bottom line here is that there is nothing wrong with post 2007 Madonna, 

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1 hour ago, nito84bcn said:

So start to focus on your things and maybe u will stop feeling sad for her. I'm not saying this on a bad way, but she's human, proably if she had instagram from 1982 till 2010, she would have a lot of other mistakes. It's anything related to age, craziness or things like that, she had a good management back then and any social app... 
She had a mistake, she removed it 30 min later when she realised. That's it. 

She posted it once. Then it was deleted. Then posted it again and she didn't delete it. It was Instagram itself as confirmed by them. 

I am focused on my things, thank you for your concern. Fortunately I can do more than one thing at the same time. 

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37 minutes ago, Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues said:

She posted it once. Then it was deleted. Then posted it again and she didn't delete it. It was Instagram itself as confirmed by them. 

I am focused on my things, thank you for your concern. Fortunately I can do more than one thing at the same time. 

I mean... man, with all the problems that we have, a mistake of Madonna makes u feel sad or sorry for her? Come on... nobody cares, that's yesterday news already. :kissy:

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59 minutes ago, nito84bcn said:

I mean... man, with all the problems that we have, a mistake of Madonna makes u feel sad or sorry for her? Come on... nobody cares, that's yesterday news already. :kissy:

If we are here it's because we care about M, we find inspiration in her. Her recent "mistakes" worry many of us.

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6 minutes ago, Enrico said:

If we are here it's because we care about M, we find inspiration in her. Her recent "mistakes" worry many of us.

I know... but as I said, probalby back in the day she would do the same in case that social media existed. Her team was in charge of all of her final aproach to the public... I don't think this is a case of 'degeneration', or things like that. 

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