No hating but...what happened to Madonna after 2007?

[Can-We-Get-Together 652]

1 minute ago, Voguerista said:

Madonna has her ups and downs ..and I haven't always agreed with her decisions and beliefs, but, that's ok.  I'm still such a happy and proud fan. I've enjoyed so many endless hours of her music, tours, and videos(which have only gotten more magnificent over the years) and taken something great from every era ...even those I haven't liked as much as others. I'll be here for the long haul no matter what. 

I agree and god forbid the day when she leaves this world, everyone will be praising her and saying how iconic she was. Even the newspapers and magazines that talk shit on her will be running tributes to her to sell sell sell! 

[kesiak 2,313]

 

10 hours ago, Can-We-Get-Together said:

I'd love her to go back to her roots and work with producers from the first album

That would be difficult since both Mark Kamins and Reggie Lucas are dead. 

[mouse 233]

Personally, I think that the divorce + her 50 years were a disastrous cocktail.
We are all equal in time, but for someone who has played with her body & face all her career, it must be very hard.
I never thought she would age like this (too much surgery, face and body). I thought she was more like Jane Fonda for example.
But I don't judge. It must be a very hard fight for her.

For the rest, in my opinion, she only has people who says amen to everything she does or say. No one should contradict her (professionally or personally).

She became for me a terrible human being.
Recent stories from theater staff who can't watch her and turn their backs, toilet seats wich must be changed regularly ... God, she was always a bitch, but that is really embarassing.

I used to admire her so much as an artist and as a human being. She inspired me. Not anymore. Her strength remains admirable. The rest is gone. She lost her mojo but I still like her ! Truth is I feel very nostalgic. It's surely because I'm getting older too ... 

I hope for massive change in the future. More simplicity in everything (music, style, surgery). Focused on her legacy. And maybe a greatest tour to reconect people with her... Dreams can come true 

[Can-We-Get-Together 652]

4 minutes ago, kesiak said:

 

That would be difficult since both Mark Kamins and Reggie Lucas are dead. 

I was thinking more John Benitez and Stephen Bray ??

[kesiak 2,313]

7 minutes ago, mouse said:

We are all equal in time, but for someone who has played with her body & face all her career, it must be very hard.
I never thought she would age like this (too much surgery, face and body). I thought she was more like Jane Fonda for example.

Jane Fonda had numerous plastic surgery to which she readily admits to. 

[mouse 233]

4 minutes ago, kesiak said:

Jane Fonda had numerous plastic surgery to which she readily admits to. 

Yeah I know but it's really well thinking and not overdone like Madonna

Same thing for Glenn Close or Meryl Streep

[kesiak 2,313]

14 minutes ago, Can-We-Get-Together said:

I was thinking more John Benitez and Stephen Bray ??

Bray didn't work on her first album though and Benitez did one song. Plus, she's already revisited that late 70s/early 80s post-disco vibe on Confessions and Hard Candy. 

[somethingscomingover 399]

I think, as a lot of other people who have posted have said, that Madonna has just changed. She's always changing. I think that's what makes her so fascinating.

After she married Sean, a lot of people began to come out and call her obnoxious and many other celebrities said in interviews that she did come off as mean. That would go on for years. But, she slowly evolved into ROL Madonna, who was very wise, spiritual and self-aware, and part of that was because of Lola's birth. Then, after Guy, she became English Madonna, and part of that was, I think, to make him happy. Once the marriage ended, it obviously became clear to her that she didn't have to try to please him anymore because things were over and she was probably also angry, so she rebelled against that image, which in turn, gave us MDNA Madonna and current Madonna.

I think she's still rebelling against that image of the perfect wife, of the prim, proper woman. A lot of people want women of her age to settle down, be married and be quiet. She doesn't want to do any of that and she wants to be loud about it. She wants to keep up with the trends, make new music and just have a good time like a young person would. I think she's compensating for all those years of being married to Guy, where she was obviously very different. Divorces are hard, break ups are hard. We all have events that shape us and change us.

Obviously, I could be wrong about everything I just wrote because I don't actually know her, but that's what I think. She always changes.

[Can-We-Get-Together 652]

21 minutes ago, kesiak said:

Bray didn't work on her first album though and Benitez did one song. Plus, she's already revisited that late 70s/early 80s post-disco vibe on Confessions and Hard Candy. 

It's really not that serious. I just meant go back with producers from the early days and produce something new and exciting. Not another confessions but something even bigger. I still think she has one groundbreaking album in her!

[DickTracy 3,413]

1 hour ago, Can-We-Get-Together said:

What's wrong with having a toy boy at 60?! 

Right? And assuming her marriage was a "stable relationship" gone wrong... smdh. Maybe she is in a more stable relationship now that is more comfortable to her with the younger guys as she can cut n run. 

[Can-We-Get-Together 652]

6 minutes ago, DickTracy said:

Right? And assuming her marriage was a "stable relationship" gone wrong... smdh. Maybe she is in a more stable relationship now that is more comfortable to her with the younger guys as she can cut n run. 

Maybe a 24 year old is actually more mature and better in bed than Guy lol

[steady75 5,106]

One word.

Menopause.

 

It's hell for many women.Leaving their bodies altered, confidence, mood, perspective changed and a general loss of vital functions. It shouldn't be underestimated how hard this can hit. All the surgery, face creams and younger men can't get you away from it. When she's largely out the other side we'll see who she is. My mother was a self confesssed nightmare for the best part of 15 years. She's back again again now but she went through hell. 

[poserdemadonna 1,527]

What happened? She's Madonna. She doesn't give a rat's arse about what society thinks or expects of her. 

[kesiak 2,313]

1 hour ago, Can-We-Get-Together said:

It's really not that serious. I just meant go back with producers from the early days and produce something new and exciting. Not another confessions but something even bigger. I still think she has one groundbreaking album in her!

I get you but when has that ever worked? How are you meant to come up with something "fresh" when working with people from almost 40 years ago? Have you heard recent productions by Nile Rodgers or Giorgio Moroder for example? Nothing groundbreaking there, truly. I actually think Madame X was fresh, new and exciting - it's her most interesting - and in my option best - album since American Life. I can't actually believe she's still got it in her creatively so far into her career.

To come back to the main topic - maybe the problem isn't Madonna but our expectations of her. We all seem to have a different idea of what she SHOULD be at this stage of her career/life and it doesn't always correspond with reality. I'm chill about it personally, her boyfriends are none of my business and neither are her face and body. People's obsession with it is genuinely baffling to me. She's still being super creative and actually seems happy - let her be. I won't be having her over for dinner anytime soon so whether she's a total bitch in person or not also doesn't preoccupy me terribly. I don't cook macrobiotic anyway . 

[Edina Monsoon 325]

Why should she change just to please you? If you don't like the direction she has taken in recent years then step away. Simple. Madonna has always pissed people off. Imagine the meltdowns if forums had been around when she released Sex. And I hate to be presumptuous, but all I see here is a few men telling a woman what she should and shouldn't be doing with a touch of ageism thrown in. Exactly what she is fighting against.

[DickTracy 3,413]

12 minutes ago, kesiak said:

I get you but when has that ever worked? How are you meant to come up with something "fresh" when working with people from almost 40 years ago? Have you heard recent productions by Nile Rodgers or Giorgio Moroder for example? Nothing groundbreaking there, truly. I actually think Madame X was fresh, new and exciting - it's her most interesting - and in my option best - album since American Life. I can't actually believe she's still got it in her creatively so far into her career.

Also in her defense she went back nearly 20 years when she tapped Mirwais to work on Madame X (Music was released in 2000, God i'm old). 

[Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues 871]

8 minutes ago, Edina Monsoon said:

Why should she change just to please you? If you don't like the direction she has taken in recent years then step away. Simple. Madonna has always pissed people off. Imagine the meltdowns if forums had been around when she released Sex. And I hate to be presumptuous, but all I see here is a few men telling a woman what she should and shouldn't be doing with a touch of ageism thrown in. Exactly what she is fighting against.

I never said she should change to please me. Nice made up narrative you got there. 

No one in here is saying she should settle down and be with someone her age or that she should work with this or that producer or what she should wear or not...and in no way am i saying what she should do next. 

She can do what she pleases.

That said, as a public figure and as a fan i can and have the right to open up this topic and comment on her awful change of behavior from the late 90's to 2020. 

I don't need to "step away" because i have an opinion. In fact, the OP isn't a diss at Madonna and it comes from a place of someone that actually cares and doesn't kiss her ass every single time.

It's okay to be a fan of Madonna and still not enjoying every single thing she's doing. Specially with the rough year we're having right now as fans. (unless i also can't comment on that shameless lottery program, going on stage 3 hours late, "is she performing or not? is she canceling 2 hours before showtime or not?" etc).

[PaperFaces 3,386]

Just because her choices dont line up with our expectations doesnt mean she's lost it or is out of touch.

God! Do you know how many people have said that of Madonna over the years?

"She's lost it!"... "She's shooting her career in the foot!" ..."She's a bitch!", etc.

[PaperFaces 3,386]

How would anyone feel here if everything you did was measured through other people's expectations?

The measure of success or how you dress or conduct yourself was defined by what people expect you to do.

Might as well be tied to a post.

It's always going to be not good enough for someone.

And her personal life is no one's business.

[kesiak 2,313]

1 hour ago, DickTracy said:

Also in her defense she went back nearly 20 years when she tapped Mirwais to work on Madame X (Music was released in 2000, God i'm old). 

That's true but Mirwais' sound never became as ubiquitous as Orbit's or Pettibone's for example .

[kesiak 2,313]

1 hour ago, Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues said:

I never said she should change to please me. Nice made up narrative you got there. 

No one in here is saying she should settle down and be with someone her age or that she should work with this or that producer or what she should wear or not...and in no way am i saying what she should do next. 

She can do what she pleases.

That said, as a public figure and as a fan i can and have the right to open up this topic and comment on her awful change of behavior from the late 90's to 2020. 

I don't need to "step away" because i have an opinion. In fact, the OP isn't a diss at Madonna and it comes from a place of someone that actually cares and doesn't kiss her ass every single time.

It's okay to be a fan of Madonna and still not enjoying every single thing she's doing. Specially with the rough year we're having right now as fans. (unless i also can't comment on that shameless lottery program, going on stage 3 hours late, "is she performing or not? is she canceling 2 hours before showtime or not?" etc).

Well it's actually you who mentions "boy toys" twice in your original post along with plastic surgery (twice again), the Drake kiss and wearing grills as examples of her "awful behaviour" and how she's changed for the worse. 

What nobody says is that you don't have the right to open up a topic like this. Type away. But people are also free to disagree with you (not to state the obvious). The vibe I'm getting however is that of a well-meaning family relative who criticises your life choices every Christmas but when confronted say they're only doing it out of concern and love for you.

I do take issue with your generalisations in terms of her fanbase though cause I've actually loved this era and I know I'm not alone in this. There are plenty of things I didn't care about in her career but I love this album, the videos and especially the tour (and that comes from someone whose 3 out of 4 shows were cancelled, 2 last minute in Lisbon and 1 in London). 

[kesiak 2,313]

-

[steady75 5,106]

I mean, here in the UK we were pretty much here for everything she ever did up until Hard Candy campaign. We were there through Erotica Who's That Girl and American Life. We always showed up and even though the British press were tough on her, the public always held her dear. She always felt very much like one of us in spirit. The US audiences always seemed harder on her than Europe. 

There's no doubt the first very "obvious" surgery around 2008 caused a bit of a disconnect with the casuals and even some of her regular fanbase. The building of the Madonna LEGACY artist phase by roping in Britney, Justin through to Nikki and co has been a tough pill for a lot of fans to swallow. Madonna simply works better on her own for the most part and although she's always collaborated with people it was nowhere near as front pedelled as it has been in the last decade+. 

All cool but actually...If anything,,it made her appear older than she actually was. Seeing her perform, attempt to out dance and and try so hard next to artist half her age had the adverse affect. This came to a head when Gags arrived and the Celebration era felt like a bit of a Jubilee / abdication. 

MDNA was neither forward thinking or well written and produced and Rebel Heart was probably her final chance to claw back....but the leaks and the fall at the Brits seemed to undermine it all. I think the song Rebel Heart would have made an amazing lead single and put her back in the main frame. I think she has conceeded to the commercial peak being over and now wants to make the music she wants to make.

Good for her.

[Angelo 4,845]

17 hours ago, thelioncourtheart_ said:

People handle divorces differently. Sure, she put on a brave face but imagine the rumors that your husband is cheating and then takes a huge wad of your hard earned money that your publicist releases the amount due to the bragging from Guy's family. He's also showed his true colors in the whole Rocco situation, cropping David out of photos etc. She has mentioned many times he didn't like some of the things she did or said regarding her career so she compromised. She shrugged multiple projects, moments and seemed to have compromised with him. Sure, her work post Ray of Light was great but her marriage influenced (along with Kabbalah) a lot of her material. She toned down her image but once the divorce happened, she seemed to stopped regretting things like SEX and no longer wanted to be an English dame. 

The Aretha thing at the VMA's was winged because it was given to her at the last minute and she did what she could to do so. As for the outfit, well you do know she was spending time in multiple places and was showing appreciation for cultures she came across. Let's not act this is the first Madonna has done this especially in this very transparent and hypocritical SJW phase. As for the boy toys, grillz and other things, well it isn't that off radar to what she had done prior. Gold tooth, dating models and other men and stunts isn't new to Madonna. We're no one to judge her relationships as long as their legal and not harming anyone. Clearly, she doesn't think marriage is good for her and what's the harm in a partner, good sex and a good family unit for her kids. Eurovision was a mess but let's not forget she didn't deliver at BBMA's and disregard all the good she did during the HC, MDNA and RH eras where she killed performances, interviews and such. Seems to be baiting for the sake of pointing out the bad versus the majority she has given to us. I'm critical of Madonna but to say she didn't give good vocal, choreography wise performances despite her slowing down during the RHT is pretty much selling her short. 

Madonna has always toured new material from the very beginning. Songs were always from their supporting albums that created half the setlists or more so it's nothing new. To complain and think she's Cher or some other artist who does the same GH set for every tour is a reach. It only seemed to be GH in her early shows because those songs came from the records at the time. I don't know, you guys want Madonna to tour the same songs again and again but also want her to push her creativity and artistry - she does a mix of both. I'd rather she continue doing inspired sets rather than simply going the cliched route of trotting out Lucky Star, Holiday to people who couldn't care less unless they hear the hits and begin bashing her the very next day. Was there not criticism of how boring and uninspired songs on RHT were despite being dusted off for the public? It's the album version and not reinvented were the criticisms. I've learned the fanbase is fickle and never content. The one thing is yes, I wish Madame X had her natural voice and didn't rely on the tricks as she knows she has a good singing voice.

Instagram is easy to target because it is SHE responding. Most of the time you had Liz Rosenberg and others speaking to the press and media while she handled the music, TV interview junket side. I wouldn't be surprised she responds out of anger or frustration of what she reads said about her, her looks, how irrelevant and washed up she is from people and her own fans. She's evolved and changed through the years like any human being will and does things that will either be a hit or miss as a person but that's the beauty of her. Had she done what the public always wanted and craved, you could honestly have kissed her goodbye and gone to some fair in Chicago with other 80's acts. I may not agree with her choices or artistic ventures but it's the risk she takes that has kept her relevant and afloat the music industry along with the hard work, talent and foresight. To simply diminish her decades of struggle, exploration and endurance over silly features, facelifts or whom she dates is rather an unfair criticism to the woman. 

What's next? Quite frankly I don't want her to go the lazy route and perform a greatest hits show simply to regain public favor that will drop once her body slows even more or god forbid health issues arise. I would rather continue seeing the Madonna I know, the one who takes risks whether they rise or go down like a lead balloon, challenging people through music, visuals, themes and subjects and continue paving the way for performers that will no longer be judged by age. I mean look at the acclaim and praise J-Lo and Shakira got! To say there aren't things that can't be improved on is untrue. I wish she'd take voice lessons to bring out her voice that shines during moments on tour, certain performances, push her in finding new talent and producers no one has worked with or are under the radar and show the fickle GP and fans alike, she's still a force to be reckoned with. There's also the truth to be faced that she is 61 years old and will be getting older and biology doesn't spare anyone. If you're expecting MDNA Tour Madonna or BAT Madonna, I would hope you realize she probably will not hit that bar again choreography wise but that doesn't mean or say she is any less of a performer.

She needs a publicist like Liz again to handle bumps in the road and shoot down the rumor mills or people who come after her as flawlessly as Liz used to. It wouldn't hurt to also honor the show start time (within reason, an hour post opening act) and perhaps down the road negotiate with Warner in regards of proper reissues, DVD/BR sets of her tours, videos and remastering her work for today's standards.

THANK U <3

[clkelley39 310]

I think about this a lot. Why was "Give It 2 Me" released as a single instead of "Candy Shop"? Why is she licking a scarf on the cover of the Hard Candy album? Why was "Celebration" the lead single from Celebration instead of "Revolver"? Think of how different things could have been...