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No hating but...what happened to Madonna after 2007?


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Madonna needs INTENSE VOCAL LESSONS, so she can learn how to use her new aged voice (which is normal and ok)

This way, she doesnt have to relly on extreme / annoying autotune or high-pitched, fake studio vocals.

 

Id love for her to make an album with minimal autotune....

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2 hours ago, steady75 said:

I think even the most ardent defenders of Todays M would, if given the option,take a Madonna that made different choices from the Hard Candy period onwards, back tomorrow if given the chance.

That's a massive NO from me. In fact, a hell no.

Personal and managerial issues aside...I'm a life-long fan, seen it all, and have genuinely found innumerable things to enjoy and love through all her various work in the last decade+. There truly is so much to enjoy and appreciate, that is quintessentially 'Madonna' through and through. Madame X, of all things, solidifies that. I don't think it's been a difficult decade at all. In fact, she's given us some of her best stage work, incredible music (and lots of it), and some of her most passionate - and timely - messages that no other pop star (let alone a female one) has even dared to do at this stage in a pop career.

 

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The thing is 90's Madonna was a bitch and had that whole in-your-face attitude but she was professional, Madonna of the last 10 (?) years is not. It's not ok to think you can enter the stage at any time you want just because you're "the queen" and have a "so what" attitude about it. And that's only one unpleasant thing.  And don't come with injuries and "she's not young anymore" excuses, if you can't do a show that tear you down you then don't.
One thing I see is that pre 2007 Madonna "out of costume" was a thing, everytime paparazzis caught her in a non-business thing she was just a woman with gym clothes, no make up, no attitude, a lot of times with messy hair, minding her life. Something changed for sure.

About the plastic surgeries, I think is well know that Madonna had work done back to the late 90's/early 00's so is not like we want her with gray hair and dressed like our grandmother, she's just doesn't look good/healthy/in proportion to human standards anymore.

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22 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

Yes she’s changed.

Firstly she had those ass injections. Then she did the disastrous Eurovision performance which was vocally her worst ever. Then there that crazy post about the New York Times. Plus all the MX promo which she didn’t seem her usual self to me.

Then she’s been shortening shows and cancelling shows last minute. Yes I know she had her reasons but there were various cancellations and postponements before the injuries. Not only that but she was dancing around nye posting it on insta when her fans believed she was healing. She also went to a party the night she was supposed to be performing in Lisbon. With many cancellations she made little or no acknowledge of it, no apologies and the refunds were often handled terribly by her team or live nation/ticketmaster. All of the above a PR disaster.
 

Ultimately I think she made a poor choice continuing the tour into Europe, it was a let down for a lot of people that travelled far and wide to see her. I’m not saying it’s all her fault but it’s a far cry from the Madonna of yesteryear who had an almost perfect track record with this stuff. She could have postponed but perhaps it wasn’t the best financial decision for her, I can’t think of any other reason why a person with injuries would put themselves through that.

Then since then we’ve had the quarantine diaries, fried fish, the bath video and now this recent thing. I don’t know what it is but somethings up with her for sure.

Yup. I can't even believe I'm reading people saying this is just an evolution for her. Compare Madonna in interviews back in the day...hell even from 2012 on Graham and 2019. 

She reached a point where she's not even comfortable sharing a sofa with other celebrities. This is NOT the evolution anyone expected from her. No way. When she was around other celebs she used to be funny, cheeky, probably saying something to push their buttons, etc

Hell even when she was pushing people's buttons in the early 90s there was a reason for it. She was talking about practicing safe sex, being a sexual woman comfortable and owning her sexuality, etc.

If this Madonna was living in the early 90s we would have now old interviews of her advising people to try supposed cures for AIDS that weren't even tested or in many cases did more harm than good. This is where we're heading. She just did that but with a different thing.

But yes guys, keep up being in denial...

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6 hours ago, bedtimestory said:

Madonna needs INTENSE VOCAL LESSONS, so she can learn how to use her new aged voice (which is normal and ok)

This way, she doesnt have to relly on extreme / annoying autotune or high-pitched, fake studio vocals.

 

Id love for her to make an album with minimal autotune....

oh thank you @bedtimestory:kissy:

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5 hours ago, Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues said:

She reached a point where she's not even comfortable sharing a sofa with other celebrities. This is NOT the evolution anyone expected from her. No way. When she was around other celebs she used to be funny, cheeky, probably saying something to push their buttons, etc

Or maybe she just a had a bad day cause she's human after all... like the rest of us.

I'm not in denial, I don't like her being late on stage, etc. but some of you love that image of the indestructible, perfect icon that is simply not real. She's never been like that and that's the reason why she's still alive. 

She's been breaking that since day one. "Like A Virgin" on the VMAs 1984: everyone thought it was all over for her. But it worked. "Truth Or Dare", "Erotica", "American Life"... she's always been like this. The only difference? The world is so completely different now that it doesn't work anymore. But it's the way she is, for better or for worse.

Some of you love that 00s image of mature Madonna Ritchie but let me tell you something: maybe it wasn't real after all? So you prefer a perfect fake image instead of the real thing? Well maybe she doesn't... she tried and we all know how that ended up.

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This article makes me very very sad and anxious...

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/02/madonna-destroying-legacy-13064598/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

Madonna’s Instagram has seen her bathe in milk, sing about ‘fried fish’ to the tune of Vogue and compare herself to Nelson Mandela. And Martin Luther King, And John Lennon. And Jesus.

But, with her most recent jaw-droppingly misjudged post, the debate is no longer charmingly eccentric or utterly cringe-inducing, but something else entirely. On Thursday, the Material Girl shared a Covid-19 vaccination conspiracy theory. 

Instagram promptly flagged her account for spreading misinformation and deleted the post, but the damage was done.

Madonna is an active Instagram user 

In her message, the 61-year-old claimed a vaccine was being concealed, adding: ’They would rather let fear control the people and let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.’ David Baddiel put it best when he then said on Twitter: ‘Madonna knows she’s rich, right?’ The backlash was unprecedented, with everyone from Annie Lennox – who called the post ‘dangerous quackery’ – to Gay Twitter coming for the Hung Up singer.

I, for one, am confused. As recently as 12 months ago I thought Madonna’s icon status was carved in stone. Back then, a reasonable response to her surreal social media conduct was a simple ‘someone should take her phone away from her’, followed by an eye roll, a laugh and another spin of Don’t Tell Me. But 2020 is a different beast.  Our collective patience has been pushed to the limit. We’re viewing the world, including celebrities and public figures, through a different lens.  Sure, famous faces survive multiple cancellations these days. They seem to get away with saying and doing increasingly controversial things. But not without the gentle erosion of a legacy. The point is, nobody’s untouchable anymore, including Madonna. For a die-hard fan like me, that’s worrying.  

Before I continue, let me be clear: I’m a huge Madonna fan. As a 90s gay kid, she was my spiritual mother; her seminal album Ray of Light, my Bible. I had The Next Best Thing on VHS. Upon moving to London in 2008, I headed straight to Leicester Square to catch a glimpse of her at the RocknRolla premiere.  I’ve previously said ‘Madonna will never be over. Deal with it.’ And I want to believe that’s still true.

But I’m just not sure anymore. What is unmovable, however, is her history. Madonna is the highest-selling female musician of all time. Even if she’s overtaken, no one can take this achievement away from her. Her prolific philanthropy is also undeniable, as is her HIV and AIDS activism, and amazing contribution to the progression of LGBT rights. But, evidently, it only takes one misstep to undo years of hard work. Case in point: that aforementioned Instagram post. In it, Madonna called anti-LGBT doctor Stella Immanuel – the source of the conspiracy – her ‘hero.’ This might not result in outright cancellation across the board, but for some queer people, often among the most loyal of fans, there’s no going back now.

I tell myself: ‘Surely she posted it without thinking, without researching?’ We’ve all been there, right? And now, the self-professed ‘Unapologetic Bitch’ is too proud to put things right. If so, she’s only doing what she’s always done. She’s provocation personified. Her daring has changed the way society talks about sex and many other once-taboo subjects, and for that we’re indebted.

So why should she change her behaviour now she’s in her 60s? Why should the woman who sang Express Yourself cease to… express herself?  The short answer is, she shouldn’t. And all criticism of her must be scrutinised for evidence of sexism and ageism. I hope mine comes from a constructive and loving place, and not one of subconscious prejudice. And I hope she can rectify the few genuine mistakes she’s made. I want to hear that upcoming Dua Lipa collaboration, after all. But I can’t deny I feel uneasy. Madonna’s fall from grace, once inconceivable, now seems a genuine possibility. What’s worse is we might already be in the middle of it. Metro.co.uk has contacted Madonna’s reps for comment. 

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Couldn’t agree more with you. I adore her and she means the world to me and she influenced me in more ways than I can count, but it’s like after her divorce, she became a completely different person, it’s like something broke and she was never the same. She has to be such a perfectionist with every single detail of her work, her image, her statements, her sarcasm, her performances, and everything felt polished and perfected with a high budget.

After S&S, she dropped the ball. While MDNA is one of my most favorite albums and the tour is my second most favorite Madonna Tour after Confessions Tour, I think she started to care less and less about her image and her art and it shows. From incredibly low quality single covers, to lack of proper magazine shoots to tone deaf statements and badly shot selfies and distasteful remarks here and there, to the messy performances and the ever declining quality of her work.

As much as I adore Madame X and Rebel Heart, so many of the songs feel like they were produced with simplistic equipments at home, with sounds appearing muffled or overly processed. It’s like she’s no longer the perfectionist she used to be, and no longer being managed by professionals. ROL Madonna would never approve of such mediocrity, but now it’s like everything is made with minimal budget and effort, like she doesn’t even have her heart into it anymore, and don’t get me started about her tardiness in Rebel Heart and Madame X, the drinking problems, the incredibly vile remarks she made at fans bodies, accents and looks. That’s just too much.

It is one thing to see people grow and change, ROL Madonna was completely different from LAP and Erotica Madonna and so was AL and COADF Madonna, but that’s was a growth and a change in a positive way, but after HC, it’s more like devolution or deconstruction, and the last 2 years were the worst, especially when it comes to what she wears, what she says and what’s she posts online. I love her, I adore her, she’s my No.1 and always will be, but at this point it’s not like the past when she didn’t care about haters, it’s like she doesn’t care about common sense either or her legacy.

She was at her peak from ROL to COADF but she dropped the ball after that and while we did have high budget production from MDNA and S&S, the following eras had great potential but the execution ruined so much of them. It really hurts because I don’t care what people say about her, but today people aren’t offended or shocked by her, they are more like appalled by her or laughing at her and I cannot accept that on her. That’s not how Madonna should be remembered. She’s too wrapped up in her world of yes people that she can’t take any form of feedback or change.

What I feel is that she’s just not happy. I watch Confessions Tour when she sings Get Together and she’s visibly happy, her face, her smile is coming from the bottom of her heart but in S&S, MDNA, RH, MX, she’s angry, she’s disappointed, she’s deeply hurt and listening to Looking for Mercy, Wash All Over Me and Falling Free pretty much confirms that she’s not happy and hasn’t been ever since the divorce.

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On 8/1/2020 at 12:36 AM, Prayer said:

Or maybe she just a had a bad day cause she's human after all... like the rest of us.

I'm not in denial, I don't like her being late on stage, etc. but some of you love that image of the indestructible, perfect icon that is simply not real. She's never been like that and that's the reason why she's still alive. 

She's been breaking that since day one. "Like A Virgin" on the VMAs 1984: everyone thought it was all over for her. But it worked. "Truth Or Dare", "Erotica", "American Life"... she's always been like this. The only difference? The world is so completely different now that it doesn't work anymore. But it's the way she is, for better or for worse.

Some of you love that 00s image of mature Madonna Ritchie but let me tell you something: maybe it wasn't real after all? So you prefer a perfect fake image instead of the real thing? Well maybe she doesn't... she tried and we all know how that ended up.

Nailed it.

I find it highly transparent that moments of mistake and weakness are when when some folks - particularly a certain subset of fans (and some of them even in the media) - decide to let out what really are long-held, pent-up resentments about her not being the artist or celebrity they think she should be...and even more specifically, to be 'the Madonna' that they fell in love with at what time they deemed to be her "peak"...with most fans that's ROL Madonna or Confessions Madonna. Newsflash, not all fans worship those eras as if they're infallible. Or that they even represent the totality of who Madonna is. No single era does.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think a lot of fans are dealing with seeing their icon as not infallible. As human. As messy. Sometimes contradictory. Sometimes confusing. And now, with age added, and no longer with massive commercial success to buffer it all. And thus, a great deal of confirmation biases and vulnerabilities in us fans are being brought out in ways they weren't before, and projected back onto her.

As I always say, hit the Google Earth button and never forget the bigger picture.

 

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I previously bought up the divorce, losing all her money and the menopause. The menopause is honestly one of the worst things a woman has to go through. It's unbelievably unsettling and your hormones are just all over the place. I also think the Rocco situation really rocked her. To have your own flesh and blood not want to be with you must have made her really sad.

I'm sure things are better now, but Rocco stayed with Guy and her Daughter has been over the other side of the world in New York for the two years or so she was in Lisbon. You can tell she utterly adores her adopted kids and that is obviously her "happy". She seems Happy enough with Malik and I wouldn't underestimate the joy and untainted wisdom in the unjaded view of a 26 year old dancer. He may be the light in her eyes.

...but I agree. She hasn't seemed as happy or content as we as fans have known he for at least a decade. I'll always wish her happiness more than anything else. If she never made another record again. Just lived a great life. That would be a very brave move for her.

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On 7/31/2020 at 11:15 PM, Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues said:

Yup. I can't even believe I'm reading people saying this is just an evolution for her. Compare Madonna in interviews back in the day...hell even from 2012 on Graham and 2019. 

She reached a point where she's not even comfortable sharing a sofa with other celebrities. This is NOT the evolution anyone expected from her. No way. When she was around other celebs she used to be funny, cheeky, probably saying something to push their buttons, etc

Hell even when she was pushing people's buttons in the early 90s there was a reason for it. She was talking about practicing safe sex, being a sexual woman comfortable and owning her sexuality, etc.

If this Madonna was living in the early 90s we would have now old interviews of her advising people to try supposed cures for AIDS that weren't even tested or in many cases did more harm than good. This is where we're heading. She just did that but with a different thing.

But yes guys, keep up being in denial...

that was one of the worst things she did last year after the Eurovision mess. The self-sabotage omg...

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  • 2 months later...
On 2/22/2020 at 7:28 PM, Alibaba said:

With the exception of a few posts throughout these four pages, there is a fundamental lack of attention given to the primary issue here. It has less to do with Madonna changing, and more to do with the concept of fame changing post-digital revolution. Madonna's type of fame was truly exceptional for the longest time, but she aged out of the Zeitgeist when corporate interests no longer saw her preeminence as commercially useful. There was more money to be made from youth-oriented culture. Doing business with an artist of Madonna's stature would have meant profit margins for the corporate entities were diminished because she could take a larger stake herself. As the industry changed and panic kicked in regarding dwindling sales and illegal downloading, replacing artists like Madonna with green-eyed younger and more malleable acts would have been a natural shift. As it turned out, Madonna and Oseary were prescient and understood that they needed to strike while the commercial iron of touring receipts was hot, thus her 360 deal with Live Nation. Sidenote: Recording music hasn't been a valid source of income for Madonna for well over a decade; she herself decided to use her records as showcases for her live performances. She approached her creative flow as a Broadway director does. The music is the soundtrack to the show. No one seems to get this. Look at how this has become a more cynical template for less successful legacy acts who all have some type of dreadful Broadway adaptation of their back catalogs in the works.

As much as it upsets many of Madonna's fans to face this truth, most of them have long stopped being a core capitalist demographic. In fact, whenever I consider Madonna's modern legacy I am more fascinated by how limited many of her fans' perspective on her evolution is. I read endless posts about how she should be promoting her music as she did Ray of Light...That she would be better off returning to Warner Bros, as if nostalgia holds some sort of commercial magic wand in an era when almost no one sells music anymore! It shows a fundamental lack of comprehension that the world itself has drastically changed over the course of Madonna's career, and the fact that her phenomenal stamina managed to give her a somewhat imperialistic hold on global pop culture for two and a half decades is unprecedented. That's enough within itself to make everything she has done since that imperial phase ended worthy of admiration and a much kinder assessment, but there is so much more to explore here. 

There is no doubt that the public essentially wrote her off after she returned to her raunchier persona post-divorce.  One cannot deny the dismal showing of Celebration was more than a commercial embarrassment; it was a global smack in the face to the woman; age seemed to offer the world the chance to finally kick her where it hurt. 

I am more shocked by people's surprise at Madonna's healthy appetite for self-preservation through plastic surgery than by the results of the surgery. In an era of digital film and photography, no one can afford to show signs of obvious aging, and as one of the world's most photographed women whose career was built in great part on the promise of video as art form, it seems entirely logical that she would succumb to the pressures of the industry. Surely people aren't shocked to learn that Madonna is vain and a narcissist? 

Madonna explained herself most effectively during her promotion for her film W.E. I don't think many actually caught on at the time when she made parallels between herself and Wallis Simpson by describing the limiting views of the masses that prevent a public person from having more than one or two characteristics. It had long become painfully obvious that Madonna could not simultaneously and successfully be a provocative showwoman, a film director, a recording artist, an actress, a business owner, a good mother, and a human being with an evolving intellect...She therefore seemed to step back until she eventually found the best way to enable her own version of that narrative to thrive by inventing the Madame X character; an empty vessel capable of being anything she wants to be at any given fork in the road. Tears of a Clown was her first foray into meta-identity-fucking, and she knew all along that the only way forward was to leave the past and its intransigent inhabitants behind. I believe Madonna is a deconstructionist at this point in her life, fully in charge and fully self-aware. Whatever anyone else thinks of her is merely a projection of something deep within themselves. The need to denigrate her choices and their results is most probably more indicative of the audience's inability to move beyond preconceived notions and prejudice. After all, in a world of bullies, everyone is somehow still a victim. Madonna's greatest achievement is that she is a living work of art, full of contradictions and the ability to elicit the fullest emotional spectrum no matter the brush stroke. 

Wow what an insightful response. I do have a bit of trouble understanding some of the context and the vocabulary  but I get what your saying 

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