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Is Madonna Just Hype?


baymad4her
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I clearly don't think this at all as I'm a huge Madonna fan and always will be, but, I ask this as I had a big argument with a friend of mine who said Madonna was overrated. 

She said, if Madonna is so great, why hasn't she had a million seller in the UK and why are her YouTube views so low and why can't she have a hit single anymore, then she mentioned Madonna's age, saying she should retire, then I said, it's interesting I never hear people saying Paul McCartney or Elton John need to retire. She said loads of other stuff but you get what I'm saying.

Why does Madonna get so much hate her way and why do people say she's all hype?

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8 minutes ago, baymad4her said:

 

She said, if Madonna is so great, why hasn't she had a million seller in the UK and why are her YouTube views so low and why can't she have a hit single anymore, then she mentioned Madonna's age, saying she should retire, then I said, it's interesting I never hear people saying Paul McCartney or Elton John need to retire. She said loads of other stuff but you get what I'm saying.

Yes! Exactly. I find myself saying that all the time when people talk about Madonna retiring.

I think that she's not all hype. Our forum would not exist if there were not a lot of people from so many different places who are fans of hers. The general public seems to dislike Madonna. At this point, I don't think there's anything any of us can do to change their minds.

And, they say that hype stuff about a lot of legendary artists. You're always going to have critics.

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Since the beginning, I've never understood why so many people hate so much on Madonna and won't give her the legendary credit she deserves? Sure, you don't have to like her or her music, but, the "legend" status is in all of her long time fans, hits,  and numbers. 

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How can you be overrated when you're the industry's standard and the best selling and most successful woman in said industry?

Her YouTube views suck but all that is due to the fact Madonna never cared about her legacy...and yes...that's hurting her in the long run. 

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Just now, Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues said:

How can you be overrated when you're the industry's standard and the best selling and most successful woman in said industry?

Her YouTube views suck but all that is due to the fact Madonna never cared about her legacy...and yes...that's hurting her in the long run. 

I was going to say, I do think that is a contribution. She said herself she was never really critically successful, and I think that’s primarily to do with her challenging rules in society, being sexual and intelligent at the same time, and being an independent woman in a male-oriented society. 

In my opinion, she deserves the hype more than anyone else, and she’ll probably get it when she’s no longer with us. :cry: 

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How old is your friend? 

There was a moment when EVERYBODY loved Madonna. Especially 1985-1991.

Things have changed mainly for three reasons:

1) Her total disinterest towards her legacy, to prove she is not a thing from the past. And her team didn't help.

2) She became a "gay" thing so her fan base is now more limited, in a way.

3) Age. Her type of music and shows have always appealed to young audiences, but obviously young audiences look for young stars. She got lost in this. Madame X album, especially the first tracks, shows how they tried to make her sound young, with a contemporary trap and reggaeton sound. She doesn't have the musical strenght of Paul McCartney or Elton John (who are not successful on the charts anymore either), and didn't focus on music even in this tour when she had the opportunity: and ended up with knee and hip injury.

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Sorry, but someone like Madonna as successful as she's been couldn't be just all "hype".  Obviously, your friend doesn't like Madonna.  That's okay, but she is one of the biggest selling females world-wide.  Hardly that can be done alone just by "hype".  Not to say, Madonna didn't take advantage of "hype" and controversies to make her music more popular.  But there's more than just "hype" to her.  And like with any aging musician that has experience extremely high popular, you'll eventually see a huge dip in their success and popularity.  No one can sustain such success that long.  Though, she still is quite popular and successful.  I'm sure there are plenty of younger artists or lesser known artists wish they could have 1/4th of the popularity and success she has right now.   And you're right, it's interesting people do not bring that up with artists like Elton and Paul McCartney. We can build a huge list of other musicians who are still working (or have) well into their golden years without the same huge success they used to have.  Artists like Madonna will always have some sort of success and popularity for their whole career because they still have huge fan bases.  She like other older artists will have an easy opportunity to continue recording and releasing music and touring for years to come because they've become a staple in music.  Paul McCartney has had a wave of success with the Beatles, Wings and a solo career.  I consider Madonna right up there with him.  He's still comfortably making music and performing on stage still.  He's hardly as successful and popular than he used to be.  Age plays the huge factor here.

 

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Tbh I’m just over these conversations for good... it’s just boring to keep on arguing. M is not overrated nor underrated... she’s just an artist from 80’s which happened to continue her passion till our current time. Like any other artist in the industry she had her ups & downs. & YouTube views didn’t existed until late 00’s. Let’s see who’s actually winning is our current time?? None... ?

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1 hour ago, Tiago Lisboa Rodrigues said:

How can you be overrated when you're the industry's standard and the best selling and most successful woman in said industry?

Her YouTube views suck but all that is due to the fact Madonna never cared about her legacy...and yes...that's hurting her in the long run. 

Maybe she doesn't put a lot of attention on her legacy, but that really hasn't anything to do with the Youtube views.  Let's keep in mind, Madonna's official videos were pulled from Youtube due to copyright/Youtube/Warner Bros. legal battles early on.  If I recall, the pulling of her videos happened twice.  I'm quite certain some of her iconic videos like Like A Prayer, Like A Virgin and Vogue would have more views than they have if they weren't pulled early on.  Just look around at the user (unofficial) channels that uploaded those same videos on Youtube and ended up gaining many views because it wasn't available on her own channel. 

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What kills me is the hypocrisy.  When she dies (hopefully not for 50 more years!), just watch all the accolades and tributes roll in from all the people hating on her now.  They did it with MJ and to a lesser extent with Prince and David Bowie, saying that they were over, they were weird, their music was irrelevant, whatever the complaint was at any given time.  Then when they died, everyone was falling over themselves to talk about how brilliant they were.  Idiots.

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What made her better than everyone else for me ? These 3 things when put together...

1. She was a dancer first so she could move better than most other artists 

2. She was daring and not afraid to change her look, style and sound, and learn when most artists stick to what sells and what they know

3. She has intelligence and humour

 

 

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Madonna doesn't go out of her way to be liked, like most other artists. She'll never beg for acceptance. The GP find her off-putting for her attitude or behaviour, but for many of her fans, her feistiness and strength is endearing. I'd rather she be real and unpopular than fake and be loved by everyone.

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1 hour ago, Ayham said:

Tbh I’m just over these conversations for good... it’s just boring to keep on arguing. M is not overrated nor underrated... she’s just an artist from 80’s which happened to continue her passion till our current time. Like any other artist in the industry she had her ups & downs. & YouTube views didn’t existed until late 00’s. Let’s see who’s actually winning is our current time?? None... ?

Exactly, it’s absurd that people are expecting her music videos to have the same amount of views as the likes of Katy Perry, Ariana Grande etc when they were uploaded way past her peak in popularity.

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2 hours ago, Enrico said:

 

There was a moment when EVERYBODY loved Madonna. Especially 1985-1991.

 

Uh, no. Many fans of "The first Album" & "Like A Virgin" hated her with "True Blue" (her first re-invention). But she gained a lot of new fans in 1986. And many "macho-man" fans hated her with Express Yourself and Vogue. But she gained, again, a lot of new fans. 

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9 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

Uh, no. Many fans of "The first Album" & "Like A Virgin" hated her with "True Blue" (her first re-invention). But she gained a lot of new fans in 1986.

With the first two albums, she definitely attracted a lot of teeny boppers and females.  It was with True Blue that she lost and gained fans because of her transformation.  I felt her female fans declined some by the True Blue era, and more male fans (especially gay) came aboard.  Not to say either weren't part of her fan base before and after, but I personally noticed that trend.  She was less of a teeny bopper artist as the mid to late 80's progressed for her.

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4 hours ago, baymad4her said:

I clearly don't think this at all as I'm a huge Madonna fan and always will be, but, I ask this as I had a big argument with a friend of mine who said Madonna was overrated. 

She said, if Madonna is so great, why hasn't she had a million seller in the UK and why are her YouTube views so low and why can't she have a hit single anymore, then she mentioned Madonna's age, saying she should retire, then I said, it's interesting I never hear people saying Paul McCartney or Elton John need to retire. She said loads of other stuff but you get what I'm saying.

Why does Madonna get so much hate her way and why do people say she's all hype?

Tell your friend that while Madonna might not have had a million seller in the UK, she did have 63 TOP 10 hits. That's SIXTY THREE - more than twice what Beatles managed. If marketing and hype was all that was needed to maintain this type of success, we would still be talking about Debbie Gibson, Transvision Vamp, Sophie B. Hawkins or whoever else was touted as the "new Madonna" at one time or another. 

For a lot of people in our society to admit that Madonna is talented would be to admit that a woman can be sexual AND smart/gifted at the same time. We're not brought up to see women that way and those who challenge this are seen a threat that some people instinctively want to shut up and dismiss by saying their success is all marketing or that they slept their way to the top.  :)

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The people who write Madonna off would be the same people to put acts that are just as great but not nearly as successful as ABOVE her. Even though she has outlasted EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. Just think of all the acts that used to dominate the radio/charts that have come and gone... She is the only one who remains besides a handful like Celine Dion and Mariah Carey. There are so many acts that these people or your friend either don't know about or have forgotten that just put it all in perspective. Anyone remember when Hootie and the Blowfish were played 24/7. Or Dave Matthew's Band. Limp Biscuit. The Prodigy? Salt N Peppa.... En Vogue, Boys II Men... Sheryl Crow, Shania Twain?? WHOLE GENRES have come and gone and yet she remains. Grunge, trip hop, New Jack Swing, Boy bands... Huge artists like TLC, Lauren Hill, Mya, Missy Elliot, Phil Collins, Paula Abdul, No Doubt...not to mention all the other flavors of the month that are too countless to name. Many who were stated to be the next Madonna. 

Its so easy to hear 4 decades in the business and just write it off... because they don't know what it actually means. 

I haven't actually done this... but I wonder if we looked at Best Album and Best Song Grammy winners from he past, how many are currently successful now. I would imagine not many. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nobody Knows Me said:

Exactly, it’s absurd that people are expecting her music videos to have the same amount of views as the likes of Katy Perry, Ariana Grande etc when they were uploaded way past her peak in popularity.

THIS! I just can’t even explain... I feel I’m wasting my time. People must learn to read history & search for facts more often... we can’t even compare our days with the past! A success in the 80’s & 90’s = PURE physical sales & actually fans really paying MONEY for music... can’t even start with how lame is the current trends... ?

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22 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

The people who write Madonna off would be the same people to put acts that are just as great but not nearly as successful as ABOVE her. Even though she has outlasted EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. Just think of all the acts that used to dominate the radio/charts that have come and gone... She is the only one who remains besides a handful like Celine Dion and Mariah Carey. There are so many acts that these people or your friend either don't know about or have forgotten that just put it all in perspective. Anyone remember when Hootie and the Blowfish were played 24/7. Or Dave Matthew's Band. Limp Biscuit. The Prodigy? Salt N Peppa.... En Vogue, Boys II Men... Sheryl Crow, Shania Twain?? WHOLE GENRES have come and gone and yet she remains. Grunge, trip hop, New Jack Swing, Boy bands... Huge artists like TLC, Lauren Hill, Mya, Missy Elliot, Phil Collins, Paula Abdul, No Doubt...not to mention all the other flavors of the month that are too countless to name. Many who were stated to be the next Madonna. 

Its so easy to hear 4 decades in the business and just write it off... because they don't know what it actually means. 

I haven't actually done this... but I wonder if we looked at Best Album and Best Song Grammy winners from he past, how many are currently successful now. I would imagine not many. 

 

 

True!!! 

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I think it's hype that a Madonna album and lead single shoots atop the charts for a week, referring to all her recent work. A new artist with the exact same work would probably never go on top like that but would have better endurance and single success on the charts due to radio. Now if we're talking about her entire career, of course she's not hype. She's been killing almost every genre and made quality songs in every decade, famous or not. There was always great music to back up whatever gossip was keeping her relevant.

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