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The Talk - Sharon Osbourne: Madonna Is 'a victim of her own ageism'


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sharon has lost her edge if she ever had any.  shes just a cackle of socialite girls who live in glass houses but enjoy throwing stones. i didnt find her words here to be too critical of Madonna but shes done so before. just think about it. she has a daily show which give her little recognition unless she dishes on someone. Madonna just has to sit in a bathtub nude in the middle of a pandemic and shes all over the news.

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You know I agree with Sharon a bit on this. I want to be careful though on holding up one image of an older woman as the "image" that all older women must strive for. 

Helen Mirren could just be "being Helen Mirren." She is being herself and that is what is most attractive about anyone. Being proud of who they are. 

I am not sure if Sharon is saying Helen Mirren is the template for older women or if she is saying she is proud of herself and that's why she admires her. "I am thinking" the latter is what Sharon is saying and if so I would agree that I am not sure Madonna is being completely true to herself. 

What I agree with is "Madonna is a victum of her own ageism," or fight against ageism.  It's complicated. 

It's very very complicated. 

Madonna has never accepted unfairness. She has always fought against it. Nature is unfair to women. Ultimately it is unfair to everyone but it begins with women while they still have many years before them. Madonna fought unfairness that could be moved. Nature can not be moved. So the fight seems futile....or is the fight to see people for who they are on the inside? 

The soul/ spirit is forever, the body isn't. This is where Madonna confuses me and where I think she loses the plot. I believe she believes this but her actions suggest otherwise. I think she is caught in between rebelling against the unfairness towards women and empowering her strong belief in one's own spirit. The less spiritual we become the more power the physical mindset has and ageism will thrive. 

Feminism has in some ways hurt the lives of older women because of the unmovable physical unfairness towards women.  I think the feminist side to Madonna's art has been lost on the "so called liberal minded" youth culture of today. Everything Madonna exposed about the use of women is celebrated. They love younger "beautiful" women and women in thier 90s. 

 We now live in a society where women can be discarded with no repercussion. Guy Ritchie went on his merry way and Madonna gets scrutinized for taking a bath and having a thought. 

I think Madonna is trapped by her need to rebel. Does she show ageism against older men out of revenge for what society allows them to do mostly unscathed? 

I like to say my concern for Madonna not my problem with Madonna because my problem is not her problem. 

My concern for her is I do not think she is being or is showing true authenticity to herself. I have heard it in her music still thank goodness but have seen kind of a empty life besides her relationship with her children which I am sure she has not let go of as she seems to have done with her love live and public life. 

I do agree with Sharon but I think she is a victum of rebelling against ageism which in itself can look like ageism. 

It's complicated. 

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On 5/22/2020 at 8:57 AM, Enrico said:

I grew up in the Eighties and maybe Italy was different, but songs like If I could turn back time and Shoop shoop song were everywhere, and praised. Of course the first one was "scandalous" at the time. Not to mention Believe, or Walking in Memphis or, in recent years, a stunning song like You've never seen the last of me.

It's true Cher says she is not a Cher fan, but being a talented actress and an incredible entertainer she has created an enduring legacy.

As for the sexy, you can call me ageist, but it's natural that 20-30 is sexier than 50-60. And I am almost 50! It's hard to be sexy at a certain age, but you can still look fabulous.

It's good that M is still fighting her social wars, but my impression is that she is losing. She is not kicking any door, she simply is being left outside. And what is scary is that she can't even convince many of us fans, who have been listening to her for three decades. The reason is not the cause itself, but probably that she is not good in communication. And she is not nice to people, that's at least the most common impression she gives. 

In your paragraph that begins "as for the sexy," does that equally apply for men and women? 

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On 5/21/2020 at 10:41 AM, Matty said:

Personally I don't think Sharon's being horrible towards Madonna in some aspects I agree with her. 

I've always wanted Madonna to address the 'grandma' 'age' issues in work, I'm not saying she dress her age because that's ridiculous she looks amazing but I think she could turn the tables on the media without being accused of being desperate or trying to stay young

I would love her to dress up as an old lady in a video or even on tour and turn a performance into a fuck you attitude god think of the attention Justify My love or even Erotica would get if she did this?? It's like she is taking control of this media attention and she's not ashamed of her age  but deep down we know she's has issues with it and she can't be ironic with it because it's the constant need to look young and that's why I think she get's more stick than any other artist.

That's a brilliant idea. So I'm sure it'll never happen.

 

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I think there are a lot of people in this debate who need to take a long hard look in the mirror and stop projecting upon Madonna the emptiness of their own lives. Ridiculous doesn't even cover the level of a lack of self-awareness that would make a person think Madonna's life is empty, or that she is losing at anything. 

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39 minutes ago, Alibaba said:

I think there are a lot of people in this debate who need to take a long hard look in the mirror and stop projecting upon Madonna the emptiness of their own lives. Ridiculous doesn't even cover the level of a lack of self-awareness that would make a person think Madonna's life is empty, or that she is losing at anything. 

Well of course we can only go by what she portrays or shows. That is why I often say "I think" or "it seems."  

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Madonna does age herself by fighting aging so much and her view of what being old means to her. Its like getting Botox and lip filler in your 20's, people instantly and ironically appear older trying to look younger.

The boyfriend situation also has the same energy of older men who only date younger women. Its an identity thing and gives away a-lot.

 

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Can not say I personally think about Madonna's age... I more notice if I like the music she makes or not... I have no interest in getting her to act her age... hell I am not interested in acting a special age myself... just want to be myself and can not say that I have interests that are specific for men my age :lol:

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I actually agree to a certain extent. There is certainly ageism in the industry, but that’s also dictated by the buying/streaming public - there younger now and less likely to be interested in music from that age group. It’s also a relatively modern thing - last twenty years - prior to that it wasn’t such a big deal. You had lots of older artists in the charts. But also, back then music was dictated by the labels - now a days - anyone and everyone can publish music, which is great! But it means with so much choice, competition, ways to rig the system - it’s a lot harder for anyone to make it, regardless of age.

That aside, I think, she is slightly, by aggressively accusing society of it, I think she’s inadvertently making herself a target.

if we go back to the 90’s, by being so in your face with SEX she drew a lot of attention good and bad, but made herself a target.
 

If you fast forward to Ray of Light, that era was probably her most provocative - she would often wear see through tops, she performed Power Of Goodbye in a see through corset - but because she wasn’t making a statement, no one blinked an eye - and I think by making a statement, you invoke opinion and you’ll always get supporters and haters.

My point is, if she didn’t focus so much on it, didn’t continue to make out like she’s a Joan or Arc she wouldn’t get the criticism.

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On 5/22/2020 at 7:24 AM, Enrico said:

I wouldn't call this a "calm old lady":

1200px-CherO2201019-6_(48933060976)_crop

But I love how Cher does it with humour.

She looks glamourous without trying to look young and sexy, while Madonna with grillz and other... ehm... additions ends up being ridiculous.

Cher looks ridiculous in that fright wig, be real.

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