Madonna and Diablo finished the script!

[Fighter 28,797]

1 minute ago, me1981 said:

Also my apologies for going off topic, I won't post anymore that isn't related to the topic, but I also just wanted to explain why I felt Madonna felt more threatened under Bush than Trump. I think it is legit, others may disagree. I will leave it there

I understand your point but I don't agree. We don't know how the Trump situation will play out. I was pretty young during the Bush years but I don't remember there being any danger of him installing himself as dictator? supporting white terrorism? supporting militias attempting to kidnap governors? killing hundreds of thousands with a virus for political purposes? Openly attempting to dismantle and cheat in a presidential election? Openly threatening to arrest political opponents? Openly working with foreign fascist governments? Openly praising dictatorships? Openly inciting violence and hatred 24/7 on the internet? I know the whole 9/11 situation was sketchy but at least for the public, there were reasons why Bush did the things he did and for a while there most people felt it was justified, for Trump there aren't any reasons. He's just openly taking advantage for his own power every step of the way, however he can get it, and there are millions who support it due to massive disinformation compaigns and decades of propaganda and a gradual slide into fascism, yes Bush was a part of it, so were others before but now it is actual fascism. Trump has also destabilized the world in a number of ways. I would find it very hard to believe that she's less worried now.

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

18 minutes ago, Fighter said:

I understand your point but I don't agree. We don't know how the Trump situation will play out. I was pretty young during the Bush years but I don't remember there being any danger of him installing himself as dictator? supporting white terrorism? supporting militias attempting to kidnap governors? killing hundreds of thousands with a virus for political purposes? Openly attempting to dismantle and cheat in a presidential election? Openly threatening to arrest political opponents? Openly working with foreign fascist governments? Openly praising dictatorships? Openly inciting violence and hatred 24/7 on the internet? I know the whole 9/11 situation was sketchy but at least for the public, there were reasons why Bush did the things he did and for a while there most people felt it was justified, for Trump there aren't any reasons. He's just openly taking advantage for his own power every step of the way, however he can get it, and there are millions who support it due to massive disinformation compaigns and decades of propaganda and a gradual slide into fascism, yes Bush was a part of it, so were others before but now it is actual fascism. Trump has also destabilized the world in a number of ways. I would find it very hard to believe that she's less worried now.

Regan - Bush - Clinton - Bush - Obama Presidencies were no different to Trumps. 

This is why any study on Madonna has to factor the Regan politics of the 80s in her early work. Especially with True Blue and Like A Prayer. 

 

[me1981 1,358]

1 hour ago, Fighter said:

I understand your point but I don't agree. We don't know how the Trump situation will play out. I was pretty young during the Bush years but I don't remember there being any danger of him installing himself as dictator? supporting white terrorism? supporting militias attempting to kidnap governors? killing hundreds of thousands with a virus for political purposes? Openly attempting to dismantle and cheat in a presidential election? Openly threatening to arrest political opponents? Openly working with foreign fascist governments? Openly praising dictatorships? Openly inciting violence and hatred 24/7 on the internet? I know the whole 9/11 situation was sketchy but at least for the public, there were reasons why Bush did the things he did and for a while there most people felt it was justified, for Trump there aren't any reasons. He's just openly taking advantage for his own power every step of the way, however he can get it, and there are millions who support it due to massive disinformation compaigns and decades of propaganda and a gradual slide into fascism, yes Bush was a part of it, so were others before but now it is actual fascism. Trump has also destabilized the world in a number of ways. I would find it very hard to believe that she's less worried now.

"For a while there most people thought it was justified". That is exactly what made Bush so much more dangerous. His ability to convince people what he was doing was right. Trump is an idiot with the razzle dazzle, but Bush had the Repubs behind him and the lies and manipulations of the media on his side. 

Again don't like Trump, push him out, but all the horrors of racism, homphobia and more began with Bush, were buried with Obama (though barely) and rose again with Trump. These MAGA wearing Trump supporters were not just born. They voted Bush in twice and almost destroyed the US and many countries around the world.

The election was rigged against Al Gore. The busted chads came out of that and Nancy Pelosi basically had to make a judgement call that saw Bush win when everyone and their dog knew Gore should have clinched it easily. It was a massive scandal, with Bush's brother Jeb in power in Florida and basically rigging things down there at that time. 

Bush basically took all your freedoms away, all the spying and the Patriots Act, which means you can be arrested on suspicion of terrorism without evidence and held in jail without charges and without legal support. Oddly enough Obama chose to continue that law and made it worse, even Rachel Maddow was shocked by that move.

Bush just wasn't as loud and obnoxious as Trump at taking away your freedoms and the press protected him, that is also why he banned left leaning journalists from press conferences and refused to talk much initally. The truth is we know a lot more about Trumps bad deeds than Bush as so much was done in the background and he way too many supporters in high places. Trump is a PR nightmare, even Repubs won't support him.

Look at how many people were trashed just for saying they hated Bush. Madonna included. Now look at how many are trashed for saying they like Trump. 

I think many people are too young to remember how much of a fascist Bush was. He basically decided democracy and freedom of the press didn't exist. He took your freedoms away, started a war that almost bankrupted the world and made millions lose their homes. Obama had a shit ton to clean up when he got in. He barely got the US back on its feet before Trump came in. You are right, we hardly know the damage Trump has done yet, but Bush was a egomanical right wing facist war mongering homo hating dumb loser. MAGA is Bush, Trump is just more open about it. 

ETA: Don't want a second term with Trump, he and Bush are two peas in a pod and the US will be in ruins if Trump survives. Bush did so much damage though, never ever forget

[Fighter 28,797]

3 hours ago, me1981 said:

"For a while there most people thought it was justified". That is exactly what made Bush so much more dangerous. His ability to convince people what he was doing was right. Trump is an idiot with the razzle dazzle, but Bush had the Repubs behind him and the lies and manipulations of the media on his side. 

Again don't like Trump, push him out, but all the horrors of racism, homphobia and more began with Bush, were buried with Obama (though barely) and rose again with Trump. These MAGA wearing Trump supporters were not just born. They voted Bush in twice and almost destroyed the US and many countries around the world.

The election was rigged against Al Gore. The busted chads came out of that and Nancy Pelosi basically had to make a judgement call that saw Bush win when everyone and their dog knew Gore should have clinched it easily. It was a massive scandal, with Bush's brother Jeb in power in Florida and basically rigging things down there at that time. 

Bush basically took all your freedoms away, all the spying and the Patriots Act, which means you can be arrested on suspicion of terrorism without ecidence and held in jail without charges and without legal support. Oddly enough Obama chose to continue that law and made it worse, even Rachel Maddow was shocked by that move.

Bush just wasn't as loud and obnoxious as Trump at taking away your freedoms and the press protected him, that is also why he banned left leaning journalists from press conferences and refused to talk much initally. The truth is we know a lot more about Trumps bad deeds than Bush as so much was done in the background and he way too many supporters in high places. Trump is a PR nightmare, even Repubs won't support him.

Look at how many people were trashed just for saying they hated Bush. Madonna included. Now look at how many are trashed for saying they like Trump. 

I think many people are too young to remember how much of a fascist Bush was. He basically decided democracy and freedom of the press didn't exist. He took your freedoms away, started a war that almost bankrupted the world and made millions lose their homes. Obama had a shit ton to clean up when he got in. He barely got the US back on its feet before Trump came in. You are right, we hardly know the damage Trump has done yet, but Bush was a egomanical right wing facist war loing homo hating dumb loser. MAGA is Bush, Trump is just more open about it. 

ETA: Don't want a second term with Trump, he and Bush are two peas in a pod and the US will be in ruins if Trump survives. Bush did so much damage though, never ever forget

I mean people thought what he did was justified because of 9/11 and they were rightfully scared. I don't wanna go into conspiracy territory and say Bush did 9/11. Trump didn't just lie about WMDs, he has constructed a whole fake reality and also actively fuels conspiracy theorism in true Goebbels style. His "enemies" are not just on the other side of the world, they are everyone he can point his finger at. The press, minorities, liberals, democrats, BLM, governors, elected officials, scientists, the list keeps growing. There's an intense psy-ops operation on the population through targeted propaganda on social media to make them believe a fake reality and turn them violently opposed to anyone who goes against The Leader. Completely dystopian. Other presidents were steps on a ladder, whether on purpose, or by mistake or short sightedness, but Trump has been the most dangerous so far as he is looking to be the end of democracy full stop. He has many supporters in high places and republicans have not dropped him, we don't know how much further he can go in his power grab or what happens after he is "gone". There's no comparison with anything else in my opinion. We don't know what the future looks like at all right now. 

I need a drink 

[NowRadiate 3,331]

This is the political thriller sequel to the biopic.

[Fighter 28,797]

7 minutes ago, NowRadiate said:

This is the political thriller sequel to the biopic.

Please, the plot is so convoluted and the characters so terrible it would fit right in with Body Of Evidence and The Next Best Thing 

[NowRadiate 3,331]

24 minutes ago, Fighter said:

Please, the plot is so convoluted and the characters so terrible it would fit right in with Body Of Evidence and The Next Best Thing 

I love both movies. *guilty pleasure*

[Fighter 28,797]

16 minutes ago, NowRadiate said:

I love both movies. *guilty pleasure*

I do like BOE  

[me1981 1,358]

12 hours ago, Fighter said:

I do like BOE  

Yeah same

[Certified Fuck Up 10,494]

 

16 hours ago, Ashley said:

Regan - Bush - Clinton - Bush - Obama Presidencies were no different to Trumps. 

“It's best to appear stupid and a keep a mouth shut than open it and dispel any doubt”...

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity.” But what is much more widespread than the actual stupidity is the playing stupid, turning off your ear, not listening, not seeing.

[Voguerista 11,743]

Can politics be kept to the Member forum? One: it’s everywhere and I come to the Madonna forums here to escape it. Two: I really hate it when people get dumped on or called stupid etc if one doesn’t agree on everything politics with someone. It’s so bad in this time period that I’ve seen and experienced friendships ending, threats made to people and their homes will be set on fire if you don’t vote a certain way etc etc. ...and the craziness, threats and exaggerations etc come from all sides not just one. Please, let’s rise above and try and be patient and understanding....and love as time is so short.   I love everyone here no matter who you support and what you believe as you have your reasons I know. Please ..just take it to the Member forum.

[Glindathegood 772]

17 minutes ago, Voguerista said:

Can politics be kept to the Member forum? One: it’s everywhere and I come to the Madonna forums here to escape it. Two: I really hate it when people get dumped on or called stupid etc if one doesn’t agree on everything politics with someone. It’s so bad in this time period that I’ve seen and experienced friendships ending, threats made to people and their homes will be set on fire if you don’t vote a certain way etc etc. ...and the craziness, threats and exaggerations etc come from all sides not just one. Please, let’s rise above and try and be patient and understanding....and love as time is so short.   I love everyone here no matter who you support and what you believe as you have your reasons I know. Please ..just take it to the Member forum.

I agree. I think it’s okay to discuss something political Madonna actually said and whether you agree or disagree with it. But a lot of the discussion in this thread seem to be just general opinions, not related to Madonna specifically. 

[Fighter 28,797]

3 hours ago, Voguerista said:

Can politics be kept to the Member forum? One: it’s everywhere and I come to the Madonna forums here to escape it. Two: I really hate it when people get dumped on or called stupid etc if one doesn’t agree on everything politics with someone. It’s so bad in this time period that I’ve seen and experienced friendships ending, threats made to people and their homes will be set on fire if you don’t vote a certain way etc etc. ...and the craziness, threats and exaggerations etc come from all sides not just one. Please, let’s rise above and try and be patient and understanding....and love as time is so short.   I love everyone here no matter who you support and what you believe as you have your reasons I know. Please ..just take it to the Member forum.

No, it cannot. If I have to read endless threads about how minorities are getting too rowdy and PC and endless criticisms towards people of color in every single thread, it's only fair we talk about "both sides" as you put it. I know where you lean politically and it may bother you, but this is not a conservative safe space. It's only fair for there to be equal time for different opinions, even if we go off topic sometimes. You don't have to participate in it, then again you and many others have participated in such discussions in the past. 

ANYWAYS. I do agree with the loving each other part but most of what Trumpism represents is hatred and division, that's not a both sides issue. Hating nazis is not unjustified. I just hope no one here is actually that way. 

That discussion was over, but yeah, now we can go back to talking about the movie. 

[Voguerista 11,743]

2 hours ago, Fighter said:

No, it cannot. If I have to read endless threads about how minorities are getting too rowdy and PC and endless criticisms towards people of color in every single thread, it's only fair we talk about "both sides" as you put it. I know where you lean politically and it may bother you, but this is not a conservative safe space. It's only fair for there to be equal time for different opinions, even if we go off topic sometimes. You don't have to participate in it, then again you and many others have participated in such discussions in the past. 

ANYWAYS. I do agree with the loving each other part but most of what Trumpism represents is hatred and division, that's not a both sides issue. Hating nazis is not unjustified. I just hope no one here is actually that way. 

That discussion was over, but yeah, now we can go back to talking about the movie. 

But there wasn’t equal time. You called a member a moron because they didn’t agree with you. All I asked was to take it to the member forum and not turn this thread into hate and division since many of us come to the Madonna forum’s to talk and read about Madonna Not to see someone called names which I thought you disagreed with but it’s ok for you to do.  You can now delete my membership. I won’t up with any disrespect when I’ve done nothing to deserve it. Thanks for everything. And that goes for everyone here especially those who reached out to me when my mom died. I’ll never forget all of your kindness and love. 

[Levon 2,223]

On 10/19/2020 at 6:39 AM, me1981 said:

Yeah by 2004 it was much safer to criticise Bush and the war.

No. Criticizing Bush (nearly) ended many careers, while today it is a common thing to criticize Trump. Nobody endangers his/her career by doing so.

[Fighter 28,797]

6 hours ago, Voguerista said:

But there wasn’t equal time. You called a member a moron because they didn’t agree with you. All I asked was to take it to the member forum and not turn this thread into hate and division since many of us come to the Madonna forum’s to talk and read about Madonna Not to see someone called names which I thought you disagreed with but it’s ok for you to do.  

I don't like that someone tries to destroy the discussion with BS, people here spend all their time spewing conservative toxicity and shitting on minorities but when it's time to talk about u know, the other side, suddently it's "well everyone's bad :/", "please don't talk about it ://". Do you see the problem? it's very dishonest. 

[Fighter 28,797]

12 minutes ago, Levon said:

No. Criticizing Bush (nearly) ended many careers, while today it is a common thing to criticize Trump. Nobody endangers his career by doing so.

People like Kathy Griffin suffered a ton of backlash in the early days of his presidency for the photshoot she did with the bloody Trump head and lost jobs, friends, etc. But since Trump insults everybody, nobody expects people to be civil towards him anymore, it would be pretty ridiculous. 

[me1981 1,358]

1 hour ago, Levon said:

No. Criticizing Bush (nearly) ended many careers, while today it is a common thing to criticize Trump. Nobody endangers his/her career by doing so.

Yes in th beginning that was very true and it did end careers. By 2004/05 Bush was seen as a joke and made fun of constantly. Comedians began roasting him and the floodgates opened.

I remember this, because I kept thinking if only Madonna had released AL a year or so later, she probs would not have been so affected

 

ETA: It was during his second term

[Levon 2,223]

4 hours ago, Fighter said:

People like Kathy Griffin suffered a ton of backlash in the early days of his presidency for the photshoot she did with the bloody Trump head and lost jobs, friends, etc. But since Trump insults everybody, nobody expects people to be civil towards him anymore, it would be pretty ridiculous. 

Her photo shoot was over the top and reminded of the victims who were really decapitated in terrorist attacks at that time. "I want this man dead" is a very dubious kind of humor or criticism - even for Ms. Griffin. With this act, she would have gotten her ass kicked at other times too. She wanted to shock, promote her show - but had miscalculated the reactions. I like her, but that risky PR stunt went thoroughly wrong.

2 hours ago, me1981 said:

Yes in th beginning that was very true and it did end careers. By 2004/05 Bush was seen as a joke and made fun of constantly. Comedians began roasting him and the floodgates opened.

Yes, but Madonna's American Life video came out exactly at the time when Bush - united with all US media - drummed to war. Outside the USA Madonna was celebrated for it, but in the USA it was almost the deathblow for her career. Since then she has been considered un-American and is ignored by many US radio stations.
It might have been better if she hadn't withdrawn the video anyway - it just wasn't her way, but back then a real media hurricane blew against her, not to be compared with the mild shitstorms of today.

[Certified Fuck Up 10,494]

5 hours ago, Fighter said:

People like Kathy Griffin suffered a ton of backlash in the early days of his presidency for the photshoot she did with the bloody Trump head and lost jobs, friends, etc. But since Trump insults everybody, nobody expects people to be civil towards him anymore, it would be pretty ridiculous. 

I think it's not a question of either agreeing or disagreeing with Ashley's comment - he's entitled to his own opinion and he's welcome to think Trump is a box-office with his Trumpisms and showing off his enormous ego and as you correctly say he's managed to offend pretty much everyone and everything ...As Trump consider himself as a very stable genius and thinks he’s rather brilliant at identifying the intelligence of those around him but a broken clock may be right twice a day but, still can’t tell the time. Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock 

[NowRadiate 3,331]

Please go and vote early. Please end the madness that’s happening in real life out there.

[Enrico 15,790]

Shouldn't this political discussion be moved to a different topic?

[Shoful 8,549]

I think the moral of the story is: “I’m drinking a soy latte, I get a double shot-e. It goes right through my body, and you know I'm satisfied
I drive my Mini Cooper, and I'm feeling super-dooper” 

[PWCCA 2,498]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:59 PM, Enrico said:

Yes, it used to happen all the time. You had to remove a small bit to make it not-recordable:

 

I used to do this all the time and record over my sister's cassettes to make her cry hahaha 

[Fighter 28,797]

5 hours ago, Enrico said:

Shouldn't this political discussion be moved to a different topic?

Someone already asked for this and I already answered that we won't move the discussion to another topic or section, since it wasn't that off topic, and several other reasons. I hope we don't look like the team is all over the place on things. 

Anyways we're back fully on topic talking about the movie now.... I'll probably stream it on putlocker or 123movies when it comes out