Why did Madonna go with a Spanish theme for the Take a Bow video?

[BlackPanther86 22]

This is something that has always puzzled me as Take a Bow is my fave Madonna track but i absolutely hate the video for it.  To my ears the song sounds very Chinese/Oriental i mean just listen to the opening notes of the song. What i would have done is made the video traditional Chinese and have Madge wear traditional women's Chinese clothing and things like that. I just don't get the Spanish themed video for this song when the song don't even sound Spanish/Latin.

Edited August 15, 2020 by BlackPanther86 (see edit history)

[dylanlioncourt 5,780]

It was pretty much a video audition for her to secure the role of Evita and to show those involved she'd be great for the role.

[EgoRod 5,448]

8 minutes ago, BlackPanther86 said:

This is something that has always puzzled me as Take a Bow is my fave Madonna track but i absolutely hate the video for it.  To my ears the song sounds very Chinese/Oriental i mean just listen to the opening notes of the song. What i would have done is made the video traditional Chinese and have Madge wear traditional women's Chinese clothing and things like that. I just don't get the Spanish themed video for this song when the song don't even sound Spanish/Latin.

If she went for the oriental approach even considering this was the 90s. It would aged really bad because of the cultural appropiation.

I was living in Spain at the time and I remember she was obssesed with the culture. She had the Banderas crush and she was meddling in the scene. The bullfighter in the video is  a real bullfighter and the media gave lots of interest because of the supposedly affair between them.

Top of that she was after Evita's role already and her character on the videos show her closer to the persona she developed after .

[Aiwa08 16,215]

14 minutes ago, BlackPanther86 said:

 I just don't get the Spanish themed video for this song when the song don't even sound Spanish/Latin.

Excuse me, but this is almost offensive. What do you think? Spaniards only sings flamenco music? We have thousands of ballads similar to "Take A Bow" singing in spanish. And disco music, and rock, and heavy metal, and classical music...

Bufff

[Fighter 28,798]

I think because she finds the bullfighter concept and latin culture in general very romatic and passionate.  Its one of her most beautiful videos tbh

[BlackPanther86 22]

17 minutes ago, thelioncourtheart_ said:

It was pretty much a video audition for her to secure the role of Evita and to show those involved she'd be great for the role.

That makes sense.

[BlackPanther86 22]

30 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

Excuse me, but this is almost offensive. What do you think? Spaniards only sings flamenco music? We have thousands of ballads similar to "Take A Bow" singing in spanish. And disco music, and rock, and heavy metal, and classical music...

Bufff

That wasn't my intention at all and that argument can go both ways e.g. cultural appropriation. Madonna isn't Spanish yet here she is in full Spanish traditional ware. So take your faux outrage and shove it. Seems you were looking for something to be offended by in my opening post when that wasn't what i was getting at all. Are you like 12?

[Aiwa08 16,215]

3 minutes ago, BlackPanther86 said:

That wasn't my intention at all and that argument can go both ways e.g. cultural appropriation. Madonna isn't Spanish yet here she is in full Spanish traditional ware. So take your faux outrage and shove it. Seems you were looking for something to be offended by in my opening post when that wasn't what i was getting at all. Are you like 12?

...

[BlackPanther86 22]

11 minutes ago, Aiwa08 said:

...

I'm sorry you feel offended but it honestly wasn't my intention at all to appropriate anyone or anything. I was just pointing out that the video being in a Spanish setting while the song sounded Chinese/Oriental didn't really make much sense.

Edited August 15, 2020 by BlackPanther86 (see edit history)

[nito84bcn 2,748]

1 hour ago, BlackPanther86 said:

This is something that has always puzzled me as Take a Bow is my fave Madonna track but i absolutely hate the video for it.  To my ears the song sounds very Chinese/Oriental i mean just listen to the opening notes of the song. What i would have done is made the video traditional Chinese and have Madge wear traditional women's Chinese clothing and things like that. I just don't get the Spanish themed video for this song when the song don't even sound Spanish/Latin.

Same reason as she sings in French in Paradise, but she's a geisha... 

[Aiwa08 16,215]

9 minutes ago, BlackPanther86 said:

I'm sorry you feel offended but it honestly wasn't my intention at all to appropriate anyone or anything. I was just pointing out that the video being in a Spanish setting while the song sounded Chinese/Oriental didn't really make much sense.

Don't worry. Never mind. But in my opinion, "Take A Bow" sounds like any other ballad made in Spain/Europe (obviously not so good like "Take A Bow").

[BlackPanther86 22]

Just now, Aiwa08 said:

Don't worry. Never mind. But in my opinion, "Take A Bow" sounds like any other ballad made in Spain/Europe (not so good like "Take A Bow).

But the song is written in a pentatonic scale which is commonly used in far eastern countries like China, Japan etc. Musically speaking there is hardly any Latin sound to it at all.

[EgoRod 5,448]

36 minutes ago, nito84bcn said:

Same reason as she sings in French in Paradise, but she's a geisha... 

That has to do with Mirwais fascination for Japanese imagery and futurism. There was a big wave during the 2000's of white people appropiating asian cultures.

[Voguerista 11,798]

I have never been a fan of the song but omg the video is pure perfection and one of Madonna’s best story telling videos. I’m so glad she went with a Spanish theme. Just perfection! ?✨?

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

Madonna and Latin culture are a perfect match. 

 

 

 

[MisterMistere 833]

2 hours ago, BlackPanther86 said:

This is something that has always puzzled me as Take a Bow is my fave Madonna track but i absolutely hate the video for it.  To my ears the song sounds very Chinese/Oriental i mean just listen to the opening notes of the song. What i would have done is made the video traditional Chinese and have Madge wear traditional women's Chinese clothing and things like that. I just don't get the Spanish themed video for this song when the song don't even sound Spanish/Latin.

I perfectly get your point, you were talking about INSPIRATION and not acting with a discriminating behaviour.

I was expecting a Chinese/Oriental video the first time I heard the song.

The "Evita" audition makes perfectly sense, plus add the fact the Oriental concept could have been too predictable and Madonna does not like to be predictable. She always chose the most unexpected option and likes to mix different cultures inspirations to create something new. 

 

Anyway, yes, the song has an evident Chinese / Oriental vibe. In terms of melody and in terms of instruments / arrangements. Even if masked by the r'n'b sound is still evident.

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

1 hour ago, EgoRod said:

That has to do with Mirwais fascination for Japanese imagery and futurism. 

More to do with Madonna's fascination with Japanese culture. During the Ray of Light era she was inspired by the book Memoirs of Geisha and that's the inspiration for the Nothing Really Matters video and also during the late 90s Jean Paul Gaultier had geisha and oriental inspired collections which she lapped up. This flowed over into the Music/Drowned World era. 

 

 

[EgoRod 5,448]

1 minute ago, Ashley said:

More to do with Madonna's fascination with Japanese culture. During the Ray of Light era she was inspired by the book Memoirs of Geisha and that's the inspiration for the Nothing Really Matters video and also during the late 90s Jean Paul Gaultier had geisha and oriental inspired collections which she lapped up. This flowed over into the Music/Drowned World era. 

 

 

True, that too.   Mirwais production was heavily inspired by the Japanese fever at the time. Stephane Sednaoui was another common link to both of them and his video Disco Science or GBI for Towa Tei had similar imagery.

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

23 minutes ago, MisterMistere said:

I perfectly get your point, you were talking about INSPIRATION and not acting with a discriminating behaviour.

I was expecting a Chinese/Oriental video the first time I heard the song.

The "Evita" audition makes perfectly sense, plus add the fact the Oriental concept could have been too predictable and Madonna does not like to be predictable. She always chose the most unexpected option and likes to mix different cultures inspirations to create something new. 

 

Anyway, yes, the song has an evident Chinese / Oriental vibe. In terms of melody and in terms of instruments / arrangements. Even if masked by the r'n'b sound is still evident.

It has pentatonic strings which give it the impression of a Japanese opera influence - this is the song which was allegedly an influence on the sound. 

 

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

4 minutes ago, EgoRod said:

True, that too.   Mirwais production was heavily inspired by the Japanese fever at the time. Stephane Sednaoui was another common link to both of them and his video Disco Science or GBI for Towa Tei had similar imagery.

The French are notorious for cultural appropriation of Asian cultures and fetishisation of Asian and other POC and it stems from their colonisation and orientalism - that's where Mirwais and Sednaoui get that from. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by DeeperDeeper (see edit history)

[nito84bcn 2,748]

8 minutes ago, Ashley said:

The French are notorious for cultural appropriation of Asian cultures and fetishisation of Asian and other POC and it stems from their colonisation and orientalism - that's where Mirwais and Sednaoui get that from. 

But Mirwais didn't do anything oriental in Paradise, right? It was Madonna chosing that look for the video, and singing in French, because the song has 0 oriental influence... 
Same case as with Take a bow but reversed, in this case it's a song that sounds oriental but the video is about the Spanish-Andalucia look...

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

6 minutes ago, nito84bcn said:

But Mirwais didn't do anything oriental in Paradise, right? It was Madonna chosing that look for the video, and singing in French, because the song has 0 oriental influence... 
Same case as with Take a bow but reversed, in this case it's a song that sounds oriental but the video is about the Spanish-Andalucia look...

Paradise Not For Me clearly has a kabuki theatre sound. 

[EgoRod 5,448]

16 minutes ago, Ashley said:

The French are notorious for cultural appropriation of Asian cultures and fetishisation of Asian and other POC and it stems from their colonisation and orientalism - that's where Mirwais and Sednaoui get that from. 

Exactly.Also French artist had a interest on futurism with an Asian influence.  Comics like Metal Hurlant showcase that and were a massive influence to movies like Blade Runner.

[emanon 2,377]

the term cultural appropriation sounds a bit negative, in general. I'm not saying it about anything in this thread, or any of you.

The way I've been hearing about this it's almost like people are commiting a crime. If there is something really cool in a different culture, why shouldnt we use it? Nowadays, if we use something from a different culture on a video, on a movie some people come with their negativity an say it's a cultural appropriation, that we are stealing it...

Example: Madonna used fado as a inspiration visually and musically...Imagine if all the reall fado singers got together and said it was a cultural appropriation, that she was stealing it...Hope you get what I mean.

[cake 320]

M had also done an Asian themed video Rain like a year before. She was criticized for glorifying the art bullfighting as well.