Why did Madonna go with a Spanish theme for the Take a Bow video?

[Mr. Peanutbutter Horseman 3,652]

25 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Paradise Not For Me clearly has a kabuki theatre sound. 

This has a kabuki theatre sound...

 

[EgoRod 5,430]

16 minutes ago, emanon said:

the term cultural appropriation sounds a bit negative, in general. I'm not saying it about anything in this thread, or any of you.

The way I've been hearing about this it's almost like people are commiting a crime. If there is something really cool in a different culture, why shouldnt we use it? Nowadays, if we use something from a different culture on a video, on a movie some people come with their negativity an say it's a cultural appropriation, that we are stealing it...

Example: Madonna used fado as a inspiration visually and musically...Imagine if all the reall fado singers got together and said it was a cultural appropriation, that she was stealing it...Hope you get what I mean.

Cultural appropiation is when a dominant culture take advantage or elements of a culture that has been opressed and/or ridiculised by a dominant group, the dynamic of power is what makes a difference.

Cultural exchange on the other hand is when people or different groups share cultural elements, like the Fado you  mention.

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Peanutbutter Horseman said:

This has a kabuki theatre sound...

 

This is more the influence for PNFM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du2TRSjgr-U

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

1 minute ago, EgoRod said:

Cultural appropiation is when a dominant culture take advantage or elements of a culture that has been opressed and/or ridiculised by a dominant group, the dynamic of power is what makes a difference.

Cultural exchange on the other hand is when people or different groups share cultural elements, like the Fado you  mention.

And Lisboa is a cultural melting pot, that's why Madame X is such a musically and linguistically diverse album

 

[EgoRod 5,430]

A clear example comes with Batuka. Madonna uses her platform to bring a culture/sound of a group to a mainstream audience.

She features them within her music as a sharing cultural event.

That's a good example of not appropiating but showcasing or sharing.

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

1 minute ago, EgoRod said:

A clear example comes with Batuka. Madonna uses her platform to bring a culture/sound of a group to a mainstream audience.

She features them within her music as a sharing cultural event.

That's a good example of not appropiating but showcasing or sharing.

She did the same with the Kolpakov Trio on S&S tour and the Kalakan trio on MDNA tour. 

Also given Madonna's band and dancers have always been diverse on tours, it would look very strange for her not to have some diverse culturally influences on her tours. 

[EgoRod 5,430]

2 minutes ago, Ashley said:

She did the same with the Kolpakov Trio on S&S tour and the Kalakan trio on MDNA tour. 

Also given Madonna's band and dancers have always been diverse on tours, it would look very strange for her not to have some diverse culturally influences on her tours. 

True but we also know she had few faux pas too. (Black Madonna anyone?) And Vogue will be always on the verge of controversy of how much she helped the Ballroom culture or how much she profited from it.

 

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

11 minutes ago, EgoRod said:

True but we also know she had few faux pas too. (Black Madonna anyone?) And Vogue will be always on the verge of controversy of how much she helped the Ballroom culture or how much she profited from it.

 

Even her decision to adopt Malawi born children will always be a controversial point. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by DeeperDeeper (see edit history)

[EgoRod 5,430]

1 minute ago, Ashley said:

Even her decision to adopt Malawi born children are going to be a always a controversial point. 

On the other hand Gwen did a whole album tokenising japanese teenagers

And the Native american theme video!

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

2 minutes ago, EgoRod said:

On the other hand Gwen did a whole album tokenising japanese teenagers

And the Native american theme video!

Then there's Katy Perry and Lady Gaga. 

 

[EgoRod 5,430]

Just now, Ashley said:

Then there's Katy Perry and Lady Gaga. 

 

Haha yeah I was thinking about those two too.

[Voguerista 11,738]

If I had to choose between her Asian or Latin performances and videos, I couldn’t do it. Both are so out of this world excellent. I love love love when Madonna dives into other cultures in her work. 

[deathproof 10,555]

1 hour ago, emanon said:

the term cultural appropriation sounds a bit negative, in general. I'm not saying it about anything in this thread, or any of you.

. It only has a negative perception if you want it to be negative.

[Certified Fuck Up 10,494]

4 hours ago, EgoRod said:

If she went for the oriental approach even considering this was the 90s. It would aged really bad because of the cultural appropiation.

I was living in Spain at the time and I remember she was obssesed with the culture. She had the Banderas crush and she was meddling in the scene. The bullfighter in the video is  a real bullfighter and the media gave lots of interest because of the supposedly affair between them.

Top of that she was after Evita's role already and her character on the videos show her closer to the persona she developed after .

Evita/Banderas has nothing to do with the chosen theme as she 1st wanted to visually portray a tragic love story with a movie star. As the director filmed some bullfightings and they discussed the idea of a matador instead was born!   So Spanish culture was not the 1st conception -Ta-daah .. 

[Certified Fuck Up 10,494]

No Bull!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9HPogwAzVE

 

[Certified Fuck Up 10,494]

.

[EgoRod 5,430]

12 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Evita/Banderas has nothing to do with the chosen theme as she 1st wanted to visually portray a tragic love story with a movie star. As the director filmed some bullfightings and they discussed the idea of a matador instead was born!   So Spanish culture was not the 1st conception -Ta-daah .. 

I remember reading she sent a copy  to Alan Parker to make her point.

I did'nt say that was the only reason to choose the theme. As we know in the creative world lots of elements push and change the direction of any artistic piece.

I said that were some of the influences at the time.

[Certified Fuck Up 10,494]

16 minutes ago, EgoRod said:

I remember reading she sent a copy  to Alan Parker to make her point.

I did'nt say that was the only reason to choose the theme. As we know in the creative world lots of elements push and change the direction of any artistic piece.

I said that were some of the influences at the time.

I haven't contraddicted you nor crucifying you we all know she's always been into Spanish culture anyway and thank God as the video is just one of her best - if not the best? Ay Ay Ay Arriba Arriba Andale Andale!!!

guess she did more  to make her point as she started learning Spanish and wrote him a never ending letter ... 

 

 

[EgoRod 5,430]

9 minutes ago, Ryder said:

I haven't contraddicted you nor crucifying you we all know she's always been into Spanish culture anyway and thank God as the video is just one of her best - if not the best? Ay Ay Ay Arriba Arriba Andale Andale!!!

guess she did more  to make her point as she started learning Spanish and wrote him a never ending letter ... 

 

 

True. However while she always was attracted to Hispanic/Latin culture after living in NY. When she went to Spain and met Pedro Almodovar, Banderas and the cool people at the time there. (Almodovar's Matador is all about sexualizing bullfighting) she got into Spanish culture.

Andale andale is a expression attributed to Mexico, thou. Spanish went and raped, destroyed and exploited Mexico. However they still two different cultures with language variants. As US and UK do.

[Mp1992 259]

Madonna is at least half Italian

 

Italians were considered the original Latin's, read up on it

 

Italians weren't even considered "white" by most people until about 100 years ago

 

I'm half Italian and half Black and I  STILL know people who tell me that "Italians aren't white" and because of that I'm not half white

[EgoRod 5,430]

Latin

10 hours ago, Mp1992 said:

Madonna is at least half Italian

 

Italians were considered the original Latin's, read up on it

 

Italians weren't even considered "white" by most people until about 100 years ago

 

I'm half Italian and half Black and I  STILL know people who tell me that "Italians aren't white" and because of that I'm not half white

Latin is a language it does'nt refer to culture or race. All of the romantic languages and cultures come from it. French, Spanish, Italian.

The reason italians, spanish or other 'tanned' europeans were'nt consider white has to do with the third reich and the vision of the nazis as an aryan race as being the pure perfection.

So anyone that was'nt sickly pale, rosy cheeks and blue/green eyes was'nt 'white.

However black culture as african or tropical origin is a different thing.

Spanish with the support of the Catholic church (Vatican) took over south america and brought the Christian/Latin culture into it. Or better said destruction and appropiation.

[EgoRod 5,430]

The construction of race on the current times has to do more with power than actual colour.

Thats' why countries like Spain that were colonisers are considered white but then hispanic and latin countries are not.

[Voguerista 11,738]

(*this thread is fascinating* lovesss)

[Juan Moncada 166]

what makes me laugh the most about this topic that they started talking about the Take A Bow video, and ended up talking about world cultures ????

[Voguerista 11,738]

9 minutes ago, Juan Moncada said:

what makes me laugh the most about this topic that they started talking about the Take A Bow video, and ended up talking about world cultures ????

I love when that happens here...and it happens a lot for the deep and diverse  thinkers we have. ✨✨