Madonna's Sexual Identity

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

M has always been open about sexual fluidity, particularly her own and back in the 90s she was considered by some to be a bisexual icon. Yet in her later years this has waned and she's been portrayed as a LGBTI ally and not a queer person, which I would have assumed she is. 

I mean give me one woman who hasn't changed culture or society for the better that wasn't bisexual+ ( the + includes bisexuals, pansexuals, sexually fluid). 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by DeeperDeeper (see edit history)

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

“I think everybody has a bisexual nature. That’s my theory. I could be wrong.”

— Madonna

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by DeeperDeeper (see edit history)

[Fighter 28,797]

There's tons of women like her, who are more sexually fluid in their youth cos there's less taboo for women than men about openness and experimentation. I consider her heterosexual tbh, but it's her business. 

[A. A. Aardvark 4,830]

She likes BGC = Big Green Cash.

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

1 hour ago, Fighter said:

There's tons of women like her, who are more sexually fluid in their youth cos there's less taboo for women than men about openness and experimentation. I consider her heterosexual tbh, but it's her business. 

If they're sexually fluid, then they're not heterosexual. 

What has made m significant is her expression of sexuality which has broken down boundaries and transcended labels. 

“In itself, homosexuality is as limiting as heterosexuality: the ideal should be to be capable of loving a woman or a man; either, a human being, without feeling fear, restraint, or obligation.” ― Simone de Beauvoir

 

[me1981 1,358]

19 minutes ago, Ashley said:

If they're sexually fluid, then they're not heterosexual. 

What has made m significant is her expression of sexuality which has broken down boundaries and transcended labels. 

“In itself, homosexuality is as limiting as heterosexuality: the ideal should be to be capable of loving a woman or a man; either, a human being, without feeling fear, restraint, or obligation.” ― Simone de Beauvoir

 

Madonna herself has said going back to 1994 that she has never been with a woman. I think that is the end of that.

M has always loved women who are in love with her and dote on her, like Ingrid. Purely ego stroking and nothing more

I agree though that sexuality is about emotional/romantic attachment as well as the physical/sexual interaction, many people might be hetero romantic and sexually bi or pansexual. Madonna, again, has never stated she has ever had a romantic or sexual involvement with any woman, ever. In fact she has stated numerous times she has had neither

If you are sexually fluid, but only romantically interested in the opposite sex, then maybe you are not hetero, but you are not gay or bi either

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

13 minutes ago, me1981 said:

Madonna herself has said going back to 1994 that she has never been with a woman. I think that is the end of that.

M has always loved women who are in love with her and dote on her, like Ingrid. Purely ego stroking and nothing more

I agree though that sexuality is about emotional/romantic attachment as well as the physical/sexual interaction, many people might be hetero romantic and sexually bi or pansexual. Madonna, again, has never stated she has ever had a romantic or sexual involvement with any woman, ever. In fact she has stated numerous times she has had neither

If you are sexually fluid, but only romantically interested in the opposite sex, then maybe you are not hetero, but you are not gay or bi either

Robyn Ochs definition of bisexuality sums it up best - “I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.” 

Also where has she stated this? 

[me1981 1,358]

13 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Robyn Ochs definition of bisexuality sums it up best - “I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.” 

Also where has she stated this? 

From an LA Times interview 1994. I know she has said other things in interviews from memory, but can't remember them exactly

She’s asked about speculation that she’s had affairs with women. “What it boils down to is very good friends who happen to be lesbians and the public automatically assuming that I’m sleeping with them because I have this sexual image. I never bothered to say I’m not, because my attitude is, ‘What if I am? Do you have a problem with it?’ It’s irrelevant. I’m not a lesbian, but I thought it was undignified to say so. 

[me1981 1,358]

Just wanted to add. The feeling I got was Madonna was more than okay for people to think she is gay or bisexual, but if she really were, she would be open about. I think she would have happily had a relationship with a woman by now if she were interested in women.

I accidentally left out the last quote which is ambiguous. She states "I won't say I have never slept with a woman but.....I love men" So maybe she has, though I remember her flat out denying she had ever been initmate with a woman.

[Jackie 8,023]

Look I think if the strap on fits she won't mind if it's Lenny with it on or Ingrid :P

[Mp1992 259]

She's straight but never cared if people thought she was bisexual or gay

 

It's a million times easier for a female to be bisexual or gay in our culture than a male is, hell even some women who call themselves liberal, won't go anywhere near a bisexual male and won't date them

 

And of course all straight guys love seeing women together

 

Women, like Madonna, have benefited tremendously from the priveledge and double standard, let's be honest here

[Semtex1 840]

The most important interview for me, that had a huge impact on my life was the  Jonathan Ross interview in London in 1992 during the Erotica period. Hearing those words 'so what if i am..who cares' and 'would you like me to be?' gave me all i needed. I don't know if i would have been ok if i hadn't have seen this and i think she knew 100% what she was doing. And i don't believe she said this just to be controversial either. She knew she'd be speaking for those fans struggling 

[Mp1992 259]

1 minute ago, Semtex1 said:

The most important interview for me, that had a huge impact on my life was the  Jonathan Ross interview in London in 1992 during the Erotica period. Hearing those words 'so what if i am..who cares' and 'would you like me to be?' gave me all i needed. I don't know if i would have been ok if i hadn't have seen this and i think she knew 100% what she was doing. And i don't believe she said this just to be controversial either. She knew she'd be speaking for those fans struggling 

Her intentions were good and she did have a point, however....

 

 

A heterosexual women, even if she experimented with the same sex at one time, can never understand the BS that gay and even bi (sometime it's worse ) MEN have to.put up with .  Most of society is fine with, don't mind or fetishise female bisexuality or lesbian antics, most of that same society hates, is disgusted by or just barely "tolerates" gay/bi men

 

Again, that double standard at play, funny how many "feminists" never want to talk about this and always want to play victim

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

2 hours ago, Mp1992 said:

Her intentions were good and she did have a point, however....

 

 

A heterosexual women, even if she experimented with the same sex at one time, can never understand the BS that gay and even bi (sometime it's worse ) MEN have to.put up with .  Most of society is fine with, don't mind or fetishise female bisexuality or lesbian antics, most of that same society hates, is disgusted by or just barely "tolerates" gay/bi men

 

Again, that double standard at play, funny how many "feminists" never want to talk about this and always want to play victim

Straight men tend to accept bisexual men, since they're both attracted to women and it allows straight guys to explore their own sexual fluidity if they want to without dismissing their attraction to women.  Gay guys tend to harass and pressure straight men into sex more often than most people realise. 

Gay men also are very dismissive and discriminatory of bisexual men and lesbians. They also tend to be the worse misogynists, even if they're self proclaimed feminists. 

Straight women generally perceive gay men as eunuchs, because society puts heterosexual women way above homosexual men on the social hierarchy and since gay guys aren't deemed a sexual threat and have less privilege, straight women tend to dominate over gay guys and treat them as playthings and confidents (like the role eunuchs played) who can be easily discarded when they're no longer any use. Also a straight woman can easily get a straight guy or other women to sort the gay guy out if there is trouble. 

Many straight women also consider bisexual men, butch lesbians and trans men as deviants. For some reason femme lesbians and post-op femme trans women get a pass. 

This is coming from the perspective of a bisexual guy as well. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by DeeperDeeper (see edit history)

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

 I have to say M's bisexual expression made it very easy for me to accept my own sexuality. Especially with the sex book and seeing Joey Stefano in the Gaiety Section and  how sexual fluidity was depicted in sex as just a natural expression of sexuality and not pornographic. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by DeeperDeeper (see edit history)

[Mp1992 259]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

Straight men tend to accept bisexual men, since they're both attracted to women an  it allows straight guy to explore their own sexual fluidity if they want to without dismissing their attraction to women.  Gay guys tend to harass and pressure straight men into sex more often than most people realise. 

Gay men also are very dismissive and discriminatory of bisexual men and lesbians. They also tend to be the worse misogynists, even if they're self proclaimed feminists. 

Straight women tend to perceive gay men as eunuchs, because society puts heterosexual women way above homosexual men on the social hierarchy and since gay guys aren't deemed a sexual threat and have less privilege, straight women tend to dominate over gay guys and treat them as playthings and confidents (like the role eunuchs played) who can be easily discarded when they're no longer any use. Also a straight woman can easily get a straight guy or other women to sort the gay guy out if there is trouble. 

Many straight women also consider bisexual men, butch lesbians and trans men as deviants. For some reason femme lesbians and post-op femme trans women get a pass. 

This is coming from the perspective of a bisexual guy as well. 

 

 

Yeah I'm a bisexual guy and actually get along better with straight men than gay guys or straight women.  I tend to have predominantly straight men and lesbians as friends

 

I'm very masculine, so I'm told, and unless I say something, I'm assummed to be straight all the time.  I've also been in a relationship with a woman for almost 3 years now

[Mp1992 259]

It's is also very telling how liberal women hate male bisexuality and they'll experiment on their own and say they're pro gay rights and hang with the most flamboyant gay guys but are scared to death of male bisexuality

 

Kind of makes a majority of them sound like hypocrites, doesn't it?

[Guest DeeperDeeper]

1 hour ago, Mp1992 said:

It's is also very telling how liberal women hate male bisexuality and they'll experiment on their own and say they're pro gay rights and hang with the most flamboyant gay guys but are scared to death of male bisexuality

 

Kind of makes a majority of them sound like hypocrites, doesn't it?

Yep. Totally. 

That's where Madonna has been completely different in her acceptance of bisexual men. She dated Tony Ward who's bisexual and mainstream didn't blink an eye-lid. 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by DeeperDeeper (see edit history)

[Fighter 28,797]

4 hours ago, Ashley said:

If they're sexually fluid, then they're not heterosexual. 

What has made m significant is her expression of sexuality which has broken down boundaries and transcended labels. 

“In itself, homosexuality is as limiting as heterosexuality: the ideal should be to be capable of loving a woman or a man; either, a human being, without feeling fear, restraint, or obligation.” ― Simone de Beauvoir

 

But has she continued to be sexually fluid? Experimenting in your youth and then deciding you are straight is common for women. 

[EgoRod 5,430]

I think she is/was a sexual person. The ideas of her bisexuality raised when she was hanging out with Ingrid and Sandra.

Sandra kept saying on interviews how they have sex with each other because was a way to provoke the constant media on them.

It was a time when Madonna was a provoker and sex was part of her social persona. Everything worked perfectly with Truth or Dare- Justify my Love - Erotica.

Tabloids keep spotting them in places having fun and being themselves. Because women can't be friends specially if one is a lesbian, so it means Madonna was having an affair. They had a laugh and play their crap, because keep them guessing was better than have no attention whatsoever.

After that when things start to cool down and puritans could'nt accept the queen of pop with her dominatrix alter ego, she changed.

Madonna sexuality became sensuality. Then it became maternity.

Now she is back fighting for her right to be older but enjoy sex and her right to be with partners younger than her.

And she is again getting attention and critics from every side. But I think she is too tired  for it.

I would describe her as a sexual heterosexual fag hag.

[EgoRod 5,430]

3 minutes ago, Fighter said:

But has she continued to be sexually fluid? Experimenting in your youth and then deciding you are straight is common for women. 

and men!

[EgoRod 5,430]

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

 I have to say M's bisexual expression made it very easy for me to accept my own sexuality. Especially with the sex book and seeing Joey Stefano in the Gaiety Section and  how sexual fluidity was depicted in sex as just a natural expression of sexuality and not pornographic. 

Yeah same to me. When I started meddling with sex, I had a bisexual approach to it . Years later my relationship ended being more homosexual.

However I did this for experimentation and I have no issue talking about GFs on the past, it was'nt a closeted thing. In fact I never had to come out in any way. If tomorrow I'll fancy  someone that's not a man, I would'nt fight it either.

And Madonna on the 90s was a beacon on light for me on that department. Instead of beating myself down because of the people's opinion, I became prouder and louder and did things on my own way.

[VogueMusic 677]

3 hours ago, Ashley said:

Gay guys tend to harass and pressure straight men into sex more often than most people realise. 

Gay men also are very dismissive and discriminatory of bisexual men and lesbians. They also tend to be the worse misogynists, even if they're self proclaimed feminists.

These are some gross, disgusting generalizations.

Every group has their fair share of assholes, but to paint the whole lot that way...not cool. I'm sure if someone did the same with bisexual men y'all wouldn't like it so much...

In fact, that first remark is the exact kind that straight people have made of us for centuries - "society's evil predators". I mean, really? Do you know much work we've had to do to dispel that mentality, all the while trying to find our own sexual liberation?

Yeah, some gay folks are dismissive and discriminatory. As are bisexuals, lesbians, and straight folk. And no doubt gay men have also projected society's misogyny on to women, particularly their female icons like Madonna. But there's been as many, if not probably more, of us who have gone to bat for women long before it was ever cool. The difference is we don't hold the societal power straight people, particularly straight men, have when it comes to the power of sexism/misogyny. Truly, you want to talk about the "worst", look at the power and history of straight men...

 

[Fighter 28,797]

2 hours ago, Mp1992 said:

It's is also very telling how liberal women hate male bisexuality and they'll experiment on their own and say they're pro gay rights and hang with the most flamboyant gay guys but are scared to death of male bisexuality

Kind of makes a majority of them sound like hypocrites, doesn't it?

There are many reasons for this, it's harder for men be taken seriously as "real men" if they experiment or are bisexual because of how society sees masculinity. And also people are paranoid of bisexual partners because there's more competition. 

Bisexual people are usually not taken seriously, even in the gay community. It's like they should pick a side or they aren't being real. It happens to pansexuals as well. 

[steady75 9,566]

I have no doubt Madonna has had a sexual relationship with a woman but we have to think about Madonnas relationship with the gay community. She knew at the time she lived in a conservative society. She’s trying to break barriers and make things better for everyone. To come about as a lesbian or bisexual would have taken her power away to cries of “ugh she’s one of them”.

Madonna knew her power was to present as an ally. The most famous ally in the world. To throw your arms and fight for the rights of a community you are not part of is more powerful to others who are not part of that community.

People would be like “of course she’s fighting for gay rights she’s gay”

If she had come out even as bisexual.

The smart move politically was to do exactly what she did.

This is one of the real power moves of her career. I thank her for it.