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Madonna's Iconic Feminist Photos


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  • 4 weeks later...
On 8/26/2020 at 12:00 PM, into the erotico said:

she neverprofessed she was a feminist. Only few years back because she jumped into the sjw band wagon.

Don't be ignorant.  You know as well as anybody else that Madonna and her career have been looked at through a feminist perspective since the beginning of her career, as well as consistently discussing her experiences as a woman in both life and the music industry.  Your suggestion that she's jumping on a bandwagon in the name of political correctness is ridiculous.

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I agree with you that she was seen through a feminist perspective from '84- to '89 and from, '90 to '94. There was a certain academic interest on her work and the many facets of it. But Madonna herself never took a feminist stance or had specific/ upfront views on her work. In '94 she declined an interview with the famous - then- feminist scholar Camille Paglia who was a hardcore Madonna fannatic. Instead, for reasons of prestige/image, she chose Norman Mailer for her interview. I never was a 'fan' of Paglia's but this indicates a lot for Madonna, back then. In '85, during VT, feminists argued that she sets women back 30 years. In '92, some argued again that SEX was for shock value. Madonna in the beggining was adamant  but in '04, said something else. Again, as the years have progressesed she pretends to be a third wave feminist in order to save her name and legacy. When she was in her prime, career wise, she talked badly about ather pop artists and never was affiliated with another woman. So, i don't believe it. She milks them.

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6 hours ago, into the erotico said:

I agree with you that she was seen through a feminist perspective from '84- to '89 and from, '90 to '94. There was a certain academic interest on her work and the many facets of it. But Madonna herself never took a feminist stance or had specific/ upfront views on her work. In '94 she declined an interview with the famous - then- feminist scholar Camille Paglia who was a hardcore Madonna fannatic. Instead, for reasons of prestige/image, she chose Norman Mailer for her interview. I never was a 'fan' of Paglia's but this indicates a lot for Madonna, back then. In '85, during VT, feminists argued that she sets women back 30 years. In '92, some argued again that SEX was for shock value. Madonna in the beggining was adamant  but in '04, said something else. Again, as the years have progressesed she pretends to be a third wave feminist in order to save her name and legacy. When she was in her prime, career wise, she talked badly about ather pop artists and never was affiliated with another woman. So, i don't believe it. She milks them.

Really, just about everything you wrote is wrong.  The only accurate thing in this entire spiel is that some argued she was setting feminism back.  Which Madonna (among many others) have rebutted.  She didn't interview with Mailer instead of Paglia for prestige, she just thinks that Paglia is full of shit (that's an exact quote) because she's constant analyzing M and M's intentions but is way off the mark.  (Also pretty sure that the interview was a choice between Mailer and Carrie Fisher, and she just didn't want to meet Paglia, period),   Sex, among many, many, many, many other things, have been accused of being done solely for shock value, which--true or not--has nothing to do with whether or not she's a feminist (whether by word or by deed, and as a hint: yes, she is). And take a look at what contemporary reviewers are saying about Sex and Erotica these days.  Also watch the interview she did for Nightlife in 1990.  Then, as now, her actions and art are inherently feminist because they're all the result of choices that she's made for herself.  Madonna has been a direct influence on every single female pop star that has come along in her wake.  Like, every one.  Britney, Gaga, Dia Lupa, Beyonce, Rhianna, Christina, Ariana.  And she's an influence not just for her image or music, but because she broke down barriers for other women.  She's no less a feminist because other people say she's not.  I can say the sky is purple, but it doesn't mean I'm not full of shit for saying it.  This idea that she's suddenly trying to save her legacy by embracing feminism is so far removed from reality that it's into "stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself" territory.

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Yes, we agree on Paglia; she exagerated so much that she lost the main topic; that is way she had a career on liberal Western universities. As i see it, SEX was a very cold and bad taste book, an ego exercise on her part bacause she was untouched back then, having only been second to MJ. In 'Nightline' she defended her self and product in a fierce way trying to present all this bruhaha as mere art; yes she was ahead of the curb, yes she wasn't afraid to try new things by exposing lethally herself but only FOR her self and career. I've always admired her for that although i do not always agree with her. The stamement about the 10 years old; are you kidding me? did she do the same with her kids? she who didn't want them to watch tv or read magazines? is this a topic for children? her justification is at least, thin. The only barriers she broke were the ones that other singers have been through. Not everyday women. I never understood this argument; pop/ artist can change the lives of everyday people, us only US. To sum up, I believe that she always stood firmly about herself and no one else; she was pragmatic. She may be a semi third wave feminist that nowadays tends to self advertise it too much.

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At this point, I think we're just arguing semantics.  First off, the topic isn't whether M identifies as a feminist or not, it's about photos that show her as both iconic and a feminist.  Not liking Sex (and there are certainly plenty that don't, or at least didn't) still doesn't mean that it's not feminist or subversive.  In just about every interview she did at that time and for years afterwards, she talked about the double standards between men and women (often citing Prince as an example).  And yes, she always does whatever she wants for herself and her career, that doesn't mean it's not feminist.  I'm not sure what you're getting at as far as the 10 year olds are concerned?  Sure, she could be considered hypocritical for not allowing her own kids to watch TV or whatever, but it could be just as easily explained by the fact that in 1990 when she expressed those views, she was still almost a decade away from becoming a parent, which I imagine would change they way ANY person views a lot of different things.  But I can't agree that she didn't break barriers for everyday women as well as pop stars.  Its all about influence, from the way she looks to the way she acts.  I mean, the female employee in the lawyer's office probably isn't going to wear a bullet bra to work, but you don't think that that woman could have taken inspiration from M's take-no-shit attitude?  That legions of young women in every walk of life haven't been influenced to follow their own path, to stand on their own two feet independently of men, to express themselves and their sexuality more freely than they might have if it weren't for M paving the way with her work and her approach?  Pop stars can and do change the lives of everyday people--look at Kurt Cobain, Tupac, Biggie, as well as Madonna.  They influence culture, fashion, art.  These things, in turn, influence society and societal norms, and that's how progress occurs.  Of course nobody, pop star or otherwise, can change us directly; you're absolutely right, it IS only us that can change ourselves.  But the INFLUENCE is there, and the example set by people in the public eye absolutely has an effect.  Look at the correlation between Donald Trump's words and the rise in hate crimes across the U.S.   Obviously that's an example of negative influence, but it highlights how people with a platform can and do shape our everyday reality.  The bottom line is that Madonna has been a feminist from the beginning.  As an example, a man who sleeps exclusively with other men doesn't need to say "I'm gay"--but the fact that he's sleeping with other men exclusively kinda proves it, right?  She doesn't need to announce "yes, I am a feminist".  It's evident in her words, her art, her actions, her influence.

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