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Crowds celebrate Biden win with LIKE A PRAYER!

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31 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

It’s the boomer generation. They have PTSD from the Cold War and they’d rather embrace radical capitalism than conservative socialism.

They benefited from the privileges of capitalism that are not available to millennials and gen z. They bought their houses, had their reasonable private healthcare and fattened their 401k. Also, generationally, current social issues are not even in their radar.

yeah the amount of cold war propaganda boomers consumed and how they passed that down to their children, i always thought that was a big factor to all of this... explains why the same ideological shifts are happening across the western world

1 hour ago, NowRadiate said:

From a European perspective, it is absolutely incomprehensible how one can come up with the socialist argument.
It seems like they don’t even know what socialism is.

Anything that doesn’t fit into the right-wing spectrum is immediately labeled as “socialist“. People should look up what socialism really means.

I mean it's not real. It's just propaganda. It almost seemed like Trump had a plan for defeating Bernie and then just crossed his name and change it to Biden. He only had attacks about socialists and the radical left when Biden is anything but. :dead:

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32 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

It’s the boomer generation. They have PTSD from the Cold War and they’d rather embrace radical capitalism than conservative socialism.

They benefited from the privileges of capitalism that are not available to millennials and gen z. They bought their houses, had their reasonable private healthcare and fattened their 401k. Also, generationally, current social issues are not even in their radar.

I'd be careful with the gross generalisation of Boomers. Remember these were the people who were on the front line of gay liberation and other social justice movements. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I'd be careful with the gross generalisation of Boomers. Remember these were the people who were on the front line of gay liberation and other social justice movements. 

 

They were not actually or in very small numbers. The people who spearheaded most of these movements are older people from before the boomers

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25 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

They were not actually or in very small numbers. The people who spearheaded most of these movements are older people from before the boomers

Yes the civil rights were started by earlier generations, but the boomers were still on the front line of a lot of social justice activism from the late 70s onwards. 

You're trying to win an argument by using over generalisations and platitudes. In reality it's a lot more complex. 

Remember Madonna is a baby boomer.

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11 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Most social movements were started by older generations, yet there were still boomers on the front lines of social change during the 70s and 80s. Especially during the HIV/AIDs epidemic.  Also I would like to point out I did say front line of social justice movements and not the starts of the civil rights movement - two different terms. 

You're making gross generalisations about an entire generation based on a generation category. 

Remember Madonna is a baby boomer. 

Yes I know what you meant. And there were great people in that generation but not the overall mindset. 
Madonna is a boomer but none of the people that she looks up to or that shaped her opinions are. 
And she developed as an artist and as an activist in the bubble of the “far left” version of the late 70s

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2 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

Yes I know what you meant. And there were great people in that generation but not the overall mindset. 
Madonna is a boomer but none of the people that she looks up to or that shaped her opinions are. 
And she developed as an artist and as an activist in the bubble of the “far left” version of the late 70s

I wouldn't say she was far left, otherwise she would have been a radical feminist and anti capitalist back then. 

Again you're generalising about Boomers, it's just as bad as generalising about Millennials or Post-Millennials. 

If anything Regan and Thatcher were the ones who were behind the neo-liberalism which consequences we see today. They weren't Boomers. 

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4 hours ago, Ashley said:

What's concerning me is the comments like 'If you voted for Trump, you're no ally of LGBTI people, POC or women - there's no debate'. 

It's this shutting down of views from mainly white progressives and their white saviourism which is the biggest problem.

Malcolm X called it out years ago and it's something we all need to listen to in times of BLM. 

 

First off, you can't just pluck something from 1960 and apply it to today's politics with no other statement. I'm sure in the 60's BIPOC were used by both sides as a political tool rather than actually having them be a part of the process. I would argue only Republicans continue to do it to this day. 

 

And yes, if you (not you specifically) chose to vote for Trump, you voted for him KNOWING he was hostile against large groups of people. That is inexcusable and un-American... and not debatable in my opinion. That is not "white saviourism", it's standing up for what's right. 

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2 hours ago, Ashley said:

I'd be careful with the gross generalisation of Boomers. Remember these were the people who were on the front line of gay liberation and other social justice movements. 

 

Generations do get more conservative with age generally speaking and boomers were the ones hit the most by the rapid information age in their middle age. There's definitely a susceptibility to misinformation, for instance with Covid, the amount of weird things I heard my parents say about it.... the pandemic was an eye opener on how much certain groups of people politicized it and were completely paranoid over it. :confused: 

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14 minutes ago, Fighter said:

Generations do get more conservative with age generally speaking and boomers were the ones hit the most by the rapid information age in their middle age. There's definitely a susceptibility to misinformation, for instance with Covid, the amount of weird things I heard my parents say about it.... the pandemic was an eye opener on how much certain groups of people politicized it and were completely paranoid over it. :confused: 

I'm from a library background and saw this a lot over the years with older generations. It's not new, the internet has just made it more prolific. 

 

 

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Speaking from my own point of view age does have an effect on your outlook. My ideals are largely the same now as when I was young ... but the difference is when you are young your ideals seem just that because you have your whole life ahead of you and you essentially have enough time left on the clock for ideals. As you get older time starts running out and you realise that your not going to see those ideals come to fruition  in your lifetime and the ticking clock of human biology forces you to live in the now more. That reluctantly makes you compromise on your ideals.
Life is complicated and the more you age the more you realise ideals are often like online shopping. The pictures look great on the screen but when they turn up at the front door the material is itchy, the zip is finicky, it’s two sizes too small  and completely impractical for your life. 
It’s  often not conservatism it’s reality and practicality. 
In an odd way getting older actually plays into the eternal message of being young through the ages which is “just live your life, it’s short”. 
It’s an odd duality to live with. 

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20 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

First off, you can't just pluck something from 1960 and apply it to today's politics with no other statement. I'm sure in the 60's BIPOC were used by both sides as a political tool rather than actually having them be a part of the process. I would argue only Republicans continue to do it to this day. 

 

And yes, if you (not you specifically) chose to vote for Trump, you voted for him KNOWING he was hostile against large groups of people. That is inexcusable and un-American... and not debatable in my opinion. That is not "white saviourism", it's standing up for what's right. 

What Malcom X said back in the 60s is still pertinent today - Democrats and Republicans still use POC as part of their game. 

Read more work by POC and listen to POC and you'll see the same theme and argument appear. 

Here's an example. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/22/black-americans-joe-biden-democratic-party-relationship

 

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47 minutes ago, Ashley said:

What Malcom X said back in the 60s is still pertinent today - Democrats and Republicans still use POC as part of their game. 

Read more work by POC and listen to POC and you'll see the same theme and argument appear. 

Here's an example. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/22/black-americans-joe-biden-democratic-party-relationship

 

This doesn’t show that at all. It’s just listing all of his ”faults “ in her eyes and applying them to how she perceives they affected people of color. Mostly, his PAST.

There’s too much to respond to in this piece, but at the end of the day... a lot of the things she’s listing are detrimental to ALL people. And America’s wars and bombing can’t be placed on his shoulders alone. This is what our country does. I don’t agree with it either. But it’s also not HIS fault. 
 

Meanwhile Trump is meeting with Kanye West, Lil Wayne, 50 cent, and Ice Cube... and for what? What do you think is going to come of that? That is USING people of a certain race for political purposes. 
 

 

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6 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

This doesn’t show that at all. It’s just listing all of his ”faults “ in her eyes and applying them to how she perceives they affected people of color. Mostly, his PAST.

There’s too much to respond to in this piece, but at the end of the day... a lot of the things she’s listing are detrimental to ALL people. And America’s wars and bombing can’t be placed on his shoulders alone. This is what our country does. I don’t agree with it either. But it’s also not HIS fault. 
 

Meanwhile Trump is meeting with Kanye West, Lil Wayne, 50 cent, and Ice Cube... and for what? What do you think is going to come of that? That is USING people of a certain race for political purposes. 
 

 

You sir need to learn more about racism and how it works. People don't erase racist attitudes, beliefs and behaviours because they decide to label themselves as progressive. 

Also Biden/Harris's past behaviour harmed people and the effects of their decisions still impact people. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Ashley said:

You sir need to learn more about racism and how it works. People don't erase racist attitudes, beliefs and behaviours because they decide to label themselves as progressive. 

Also Biden/Harris's past behaviour harmed people and the impact of their decisions still impact people. 

 

I think u got so woke u starting to go backwards. :04:

We were talking about Democrats and Republicans USING people of color for political gain. Not if they've ever made ANY mistakes in their entire life. And unfortunately when people discuss past policy, it's usually generalized to the point of having no understanding of political climate, the state of the country, someone's intention, or if maybe they voted for a certain bill because it had something else baked into it to appease people on both sides. Politics is not black and white and you can't just look back in time with your woke glasses and say that anyone who voted for this and that is racist or had mal intentions. It's stupid and you'll end up with no one left. 

 

This is why Nancy Pelosi wasn't agreeing to another stimulus package with Republicans. They were baking all these other things into it (that had nothing to do with Coronavirus Relief) in the hopes she would agree to them. She wasn't budging, so I would assume they were bad news. and then the Republicans can go around saying she's being stubborn and not working for the American people. 

 

Here's another example of what we are discussing... again which is not the same thing as digging in someone past to try and paint them as some racist villain. 

 

 

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On 11/8/2020 at 5:40 AM, baymad4her said:

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this thread at all. I don't come on here to talk or read about politics, certainly, not from far left, woke, cretins. I also do not support Joe Biden who is an IRA advocate, I've lived through IRA bombings but as long as you far left idiots on here are happy. 

This is a Madonna fansite, not a political arena, I'm sick of it. I won't be reading or replying to any comments on this crap thread. If I've offended anyone, I don't care, block me, ban me, I don't give a shit.

I’m not in favor of talking politics in the madonna forums either. I prefer it in the Member forum in most cases if it’s not related to Madonna(but this one is related to Madonna), but I assure you we are a great mixed bag of people and fans of all political beliefs here.  Also, just because someone is left or right means they are a bad person. Many reasons can shape why people are who they are and that’s not a bad thing but a good one that keeps our world interesting, diverse and free. 

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10 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

I think u got so woke u starting to go backwards. :04:

We were talking about Democrats and Republicans USING people of color for political gain. Not if they've ever made ANY mistakes in their entire life. And unfortunately when people discuss past policy, it's usually generalized to the point of having no understanding of political climate, the state of the country, someone's intention, or if maybe they voted for a certain bill because it had something else baked into it to appease people on both sides. Politics is not black and white and you can't just look back in time with your woke glasses and say that anyone who voted for this and that is racist or had mal intentions. It's stupid and you'll end up with no one left. 

 

This is why Nancy Pelosi wasn't agreeing to another stimulus package with Republicans. They were baking all these other things into it (that had nothing to do with Coronavirus Relief) in the hopes she would agree to them. She wasn't budging, so I would assume they were bad news. and then the Republicans can go around saying she's being stubborn and not working for the American people. 

 

Here's another example of what we are discussing... again which is not the same thing as digging in someone past to try and paint them as some racist villain. 

 

 

First of all you’re not correct and go by the Republican misinformation agenda.

What was “baked” in the stimulus package and Pelosi was firm on was additional money for states to upgrade their voting counting facilities so the mail in ballots could be counted faster. That’s directly connected to the pandemic. The dems wanted people to vote safely and have a smooth election. But Trump and his hounds were determined to let everyone suffer just to be able to put on the circus that’s unfolding now and hinder a smooth transition of power.

 Also I don’t get why you posted that horrendous video that plainly shows how racist and obscene this president is...

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2 hours ago, Voguerista said:

I’m not in favor of talking politics in the madonna forums either. I prefer it in the Member forum in most cases if it’s not related to Madonna(but this one is related to Madonna), but I assure you we are a great mixed bag of people and fans of all political beliefs here.  Also, just because someone is left or right means they are a bad person. Many reasons can shape why people are who they are and that’s not a bad thing but a good one that keeps our world interesting, diverse and free. 

The issue at hand is that this is far beyond politics. It’s about what we should all stand for as Madonna fans and as humans. 
I don’t believe for one second that all Trump voters are bad people. Absolutely not. I just think they allowed themselves to be misinformed and drawn into a horrible cult. Trump literally took advantage of their vulnerabilities for his personal gain.

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34 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

The issue at hand is that this is far beyond politics. It’s about what we should all stand for as Madonna fans and as humans. 
I don’t believe for one second that all Trump voters are bad people. Absolutely not. I just think they allowed themselves to be misinformed and drawn into a horrible cult. Trump literally took advantage of their vulnerabilities for his personal gain.

It's the personality politics which has evolved over the last few decades. Jacinda Ardern in NZ is also a result of personality politics. Also Biden/Harris aren't perfect, they have histories whilst in public office that they need to be held accountable for and I can't see either of them being popular with the public in a years time. Which may give rise to another Trump. 

I have a strong feeling that this U.S. election is not over by a long shot and it's clearly not cut and dry. We may end up seeing politics and elections around the globe changing due to this. 

 

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1 hour ago, thegoldencalf said:

First of all you’re not correct and go by the Republican misinformation agenda.

What was “baked” in the stimulus package and Pelosi was firm on was additional money for states to upgrade their voting counting facilities so the mail in ballots could be counted faster. That’s directly connected to the pandemic. The dems wanted people to vote safely and have a smooth election. But Trump and his hounds were determined to let everyone suffer just to be able to put on the circus that’s unfolding now and hinder a smooth transition of power.

 Also I don’t get why you posted that horrendous video that plainly shows how racist and obscene this president is...

Re read what I wrote. You got it all wrong

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I don’t know if you guys watch SNL. But Dave Chappelle was the guest, as he was four years ago when Trump was elected and he ends it on a note that really shifted my view instantly. Made me want to reconcile with my Aunt who I had a political argument with and haven’t spoken to since. 

It’s a bit long at 16 minutes... but if you want to skip to the part I’m speaking of it’s at 14:30 

 

 Also, sorry @Voguerista for my attitude on your post the other day. This whole rollercoaster of political “campaigns”,  online trolls (not here), and just all the lying going on really has made me high strung lately. This stuff is really taxing on ones soul. 

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41 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

Re read what I wrote. You got it all wrong

Correct. Re-reading it I got what you meant to say.

And to that point, I’m not sure what Kamala did that is questionable but Biden certainly doesn’t have a spotless track record. The difference is the he SEEMS to understand that and apologized for it and is trying to do better.

We are not demonizing Trump for things he did 20 years ago but for what he’s doing today and has been doing unapologetically on daily basis for the past 4 years.

I think we all forced ourselves to give him the benefit of a doubt when he won the election and he constantly disappointed 

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1 hour ago, Ashley said:

I have a strong feeling that this U.S. election is not over by a long shot and it's clearly not cut and dry. We may end up seeing politics and elections around the globe changing due to this. 

What do you mean exactly?

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