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16 minutes ago, survivalartist said:

I think it’s “neat” they are filling in blanks like Paper Faces remix of Let It Will Be. I also noticed on GHV2 Deeper & Deeper is now labeled 7’’ Edit I remember when that was a Hot Topic here if it was or was not album version.

Maybe it's just Johann Delebarre (aka Emily) coming back from the buffet...

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14 hours ago, clkelley39 said:

I don't see that image anywhere in the source code. And I don't understand why it would even be in the source code if it's not on the page. Can you elaborate?

Insert the link here https://www.view-page-source.com and you'll find this image

https://linkstorage.linkfire.com/medialinks/images/799e5c72-a763-4e90-b41a-1feadc0ae237/artwork-600x315.jpg

I just changed the image size to 440x440 to match TUTBMP and voilà.

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3 hours ago, Anapausis said:

Maybe it's just Johann Delebarre (aka Emily) coming back from the buffet...

What I'm really curious about is why did they remove so many things we used to have? I remember on itunes back in the day we had ALL the club mixes AND edits. I actually purcahsed quite a few back in the day. 

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6 hours ago, survivalartist said:

I think it’s “neat” they are filling in blanks like Paper Faces remix of Let It Will Be. I also noticed on GHV2 Deeper & Deeper is now labeled 7’’ Edit I remember when that was a Hot Topic here if it was or was not album version.

"Deeper And Deeper" on "GHV2" has always been labeled as "7'' Edit", of course in the original physical release in 2001 but also later on digital. There hasn't been a recent change on that one - cause it's always been correct.

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I’ve always been curious why Holiday didn’t get a ‘U.S. Mix’ / ‘New Mix’ like both Borderline and Lucky Star did for their 12” singles. 

The Madonna album was already available, so wouldn’t a new mix have encouraged 12” sales more than just giving the full length album version?

ok, looking at Wikipedia am I correct that Holiday was only released on a 12” in the US backed with Lucky Star? It seems they intended a double A side, but then decided to go with Holiday and not treat it as a double A side after all? 
 

I’m so used to thinking of Holiday as a thrice released single in the UK, that it’s strange to see Warner in the US not squeezing more format variants out at all of her early signature song 

 

Edited by MadonnaDave (see edit history)
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20 minutes ago, BoyToyMark said:

The good thing is they're aware fans would like both Who's That Girl and Causing A Commotion and both are copyrighted and ready to go. 

Even more importantly, kind of hoping for Dress You Up next month and the remix edit.

And the Cherish edit in August.

Dress You Up is very eagerly awaited 

 

🤞 

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5 hours ago, MadonnaDave said:

I’ve always been curious why Holiday didn’t get a ‘U.S. Mix’ / ‘New Mix’ like both Borderline and Lucky Star did for their 12” singles. 

The Madonna album was already available, so wouldn’t a new mix have encouraged 12” sales more than just giving the full length album version?

ok, looking at Wikipedia am I correct that Holiday was only released on a 12” in the US backed with Lucky Star? It seems they intended a double A side, but then decided to go with Holiday and not treat it as a double A side after all? 
 

I’m so used to thinking of Holiday as a thrice released single in the UK, that it’s strange to see Warner in the US not squeezing more format variants out at all of her early signature song 

 

In the US the Holiday/Lucky Star 12” was only a promo release for club djs to see which song got a better reception. Holiday did so it was chosen as the single. It was only commercially released as a 7” with the edit.

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8 hours ago, MadonnaDave said:

I’ve always been curious why Holiday didn’t get a ‘U.S. Mix’ / ‘New Mix’ like both Borderline and Lucky Star did for their 12” singles. 

The Madonna album was already available, so wouldn’t a new mix have encouraged 12” sales more than just giving the full length album version?

ok, looking at Wikipedia am I correct that Holiday was only released on a 12” in the US backed with Lucky Star? It seems they intended a double A side, but then decided to go with Holiday and not treat it as a double A side after all? 
 

I’m so used to thinking of Holiday as a thrice released single in the UK, that it’s strange to see Warner in the US not squeezing more format variants out at all of her early signature song 

 

The album version was already 6 minutes in length, so it was basically an Extended Mix in itself. Probably an entra minute was not needed and/or worth it for that one.

Plus, the original was already produced by Jellybean, so it's not like he could twist it or add things to it. It was already done by him, unlike the other tracks from Reggie Lucas he remixed from that album.

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8 hours ago, MadonnaDave said:

I’ve always been curious why Holiday didn’t get a ‘U.S. Mix’ / ‘New Mix’ like both Borderline and Lucky Star did for their 12” singles. 

The Madonna album was already available, so wouldn’t a new mix have encouraged 12” sales more than just giving the full length album version?

ok, looking at Wikipedia am I correct that Holiday was only released on a 12” in the US backed with Lucky Star? It seems they intended a double A side, but then decided to go with Holiday and not treat it as a double A side after all? 
 

I’m so used to thinking of Holiday as a thrice released single in the UK, that it’s strange to see Warner in the US not squeezing more format variants out at all of her early signature song 

 

Madonna's debut was mainly produced by Reggie Lucas who at one point abandoned the project and left Madonna with a bit of a half-baked album. She was not very satisfied with the outcome.

Jellybean, her boyfriend at that time, offered her Holiday which he produced himself. So, there kind of wasn’t a need for a new remix of the song. Lucky Star and Borderline still sounded quite rough on the album which is why Jellybean offered to remix them for the single release.

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11 minutes ago, MaDöner Kebab said:

Madonna's debut was mainly produced by Reggie Lucas who at one point abandoned the project and left Madonna with a bit of a half-baked album. She was not very satisfied with the outcome.

Jellybean, her boyfriend at that time, offered her Holiday which he produced himself. So, there kind of wasn’t a need for a new remix of the song. Lucky Star and Borderline still sounded quite rough on the album which is why Jellybean offered to remix them for the single release.

This is not true. Reggie Lucas completed his project. He was the only experienced produced there, not her, not Jellybean. She was the one feeling her voice hadn't been heard (fair point) and that's why she brought some songs to Jellybean. But he simply remixed and tweaked some parts, he only produced "Holiday" - an easy job considering the original writers have a band a they simply performed it entirely, Jellybean just directed the whole thing. Then he went around claiming credit for the success of that album, while it was Lucas the one who had made the work mainly.

Jellybean was a DJ, not a producer. He won the narrative and convinced everyone he was the man, but it wasn't the case.

Reggie Lucas was always super professional and never really entered any public war, but he talked about it with Rolling Stone and The Atlantic in 2013 within their pieces about the 30th anniversary of the debut album:

Rolling Stone:

https://archive.is/20240502005311/https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/how-madonna-became-madonna-an-oral-history-94288/

When Warner Brothers called me about working with Madonna, I was the big score. It seems ridiculous in retrospect, but I was an established professional and she was a nobody. I met with her at a tiny little apartment she had in the Lower East Side. I thought she was vivacious and sexy and interesting, and had a lot of energy.

“Borderline” has a stylistic similarity to “Never Knew Love Like This Before” [the 1980 Grammy-winning Stephanie Mills song that Lucas co-wrote and co-produced], particularly in the front, with Dean Gant’s electric piano introduction.

This was the first record I ever used a drum machine instead of a drummer. And the bass on “Borderline” is an ARP 2600 synthesizer, but the great Anthony Jackson – who did that intro on the O’Jays’ “For the Love of Money” – is playing along on an electric bass guitar, and they’re playing so tight you can’t tell the difference.

The Atlantic:

https://archive.is/20240206021619/https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/07/the-vicious-competition-for-credit-over-launching-madonnas-career/277974/

“Just for the record, one tires in a lifetime of hearing someone taking credit for something that you’ve done.”

Many people think other famous producers launched Madonna’s career. What are your feelings about that?

I’ve refrained over the years in addressing aspects of Madonna’s career because I’m not a person who likes negative discussions. But what I will say is that in Madonna’s ascent to fame and fortune, there’s been a pretty vicious competition for credit in being involved. In other words, someone will say, “I launched Madonna.” If I talk to a lot of people today, I will say I was Madonna’s first producer. I produced six of the eight tracks on her first record. I would say nine times out of 10, their response will be, “Oh yeah, I thought Jellybean did that.” But Jellybean didn't do that. Jellybean was a remixer, and we didn’t have time to remix records. It wasn’t something that I was interested in doing. Somewhere in this process of publicists and personal relationships, somehow he came out as the guy.

I was a traditionalist and probably a little naive at the time, but I started out working for Billy Paul. Billy and his wife Blanche were like parents to me. They took me under their wing. I was a little kid. They took me on the road. They looked after me. They supported me. I joined Miles Davis’s band. Miles introduced me to the world of big-time jazz success. I played at the greatest halls in the world and stayed at the finest hotels. Miles was like a surrogate father to the guys in the band. You got credit for the work you did. You were a member of Miles’s band. When I worked for Roberta Flack, Stephanie Mills, and Phyllis Hyman, we made the records and people would say, “Oh, you produced that record.” You produced one good record for Stephanie Mills and take her from selling no records to selling gold records; they would call you back and treat you better.

So this Madonna record was my first and worst introduction to the notion that you wouldn’t have a linear continuation with someone who you’ve had success with. It totally blindsided me. I understand it a little bit better now, but not really. Just for the record, one tires in a lifetime of hearing someone taking credit for something that you've done. Jellybean produced “Holiday” and he remixed a couple of tracks, but remixing tracks for radio isn’t the same thing as producing one of the major breakout pop stars of the 1980s. Now there’s Wikipedia and you'll always find these distortions in Wikipedia. My kids find this stuff and they fix it for me. [laughs] I don’t think there’s really ever been someone to clear this up. Madonna certainly hasn't helped at all. I think if it were left up to Madonna, she wouldn't talk about anybody.

The bottom line is that, I think, the kind way that Madonna has always tried to refer to me is that I was just an R&B producer. There are two things that I dislike about that. First thing is, that it treats being an R&B producer as pejorative, as if it were something less than being a pop or rock producer. Second thing is, that I didn’t make an R&B record for her. I made a crossover pop record of the highest order. So the notion that she similarly dismissed me because I was just an R&B producer is offensive on multiple levels to me.

It’s hurtful because I didn’t understand it. I did the same thing I always did. I came in and worked my ass off to support the artist and cast them in a good light. Everybody but her reciprocated by saying they liked the record, and let's make another one. Between her and Jellybean, they try to pretend the records I did weren’t any good. It’s almost like I was fired or something. I wasn't fired. I finished the record, I put it out, and they took it and put it out and sold a bunch of records. And everybody else ran around trying to take credit for it because it was so big that they couldn’t help themselves.

----

Sorry for the long texts but I think it's about time that Madonna fans acknowledge Reggie Lucas over Jellybean.

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3 hours ago, Prayer said:

This is not true. Reggie Lucas completed his project. He was the only experienced produced there, not her, not Jellybean. She was the one feeling her voice hadn't been heard (fair point) and that's why she brought some songs to Jellybean. But he simply remixed and tweaked some parts, he only produced "Holiday" - an easy job considering the original writers have a band a they simply performed it entirely, Jellybean just directed the whole thing. Then he went around claiming credit for the success of that album, while it was Lucas the one who had made the work mainly.

Jellybean was a DJ, not a producer. He won the narrative and convinced everyone he was the man, but it wasn't the case.

Reggie Lucas was always super professional and never really entered any public war, but he talked about it with Rolling Stone and The Atlantic in 2013 within their pieces about the 30th anniversary of the debut album:

Rolling Stone:

https://archive.is/20240502005311/https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/how-madonna-became-madonna-an-oral-history-94288/

When Warner Brothers called me about working with Madonna, I was the big score. It seems ridiculous in retrospect, but I was an established professional and she was a nobody. I met with her at a tiny little apartment she had in the Lower East Side. I thought she was vivacious and sexy and interesting, and had a lot of energy.

“Borderline” has a stylistic similarity to “Never Knew Love Like This Before” [the 1980 Grammy-winning Stephanie Mills song that Lucas co-wrote and co-produced], particularly in the front, with Dean Gant’s electric piano introduction.

This was the first record I ever used a drum machine instead of a drummer. And the bass on “Borderline” is an ARP 2600 synthesizer, but the great Anthony Jackson – who did that intro on the O’Jays’ “For the Love of Money” – is playing along on an electric bass guitar, and they’re playing so tight you can’t tell the difference.

The Atlantic:

https://archive.is/20240206021619/https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/07/the-vicious-competition-for-credit-over-launching-madonnas-career/277974/

“Just for the record, one tires in a lifetime of hearing someone taking credit for something that you’ve done.”

Many people think other famous producers launched Madonna’s career. What are your feelings about that?

I’ve refrained over the years in addressing aspects of Madonna’s career because I’m not a person who likes negative discussions. But what I will say is that in Madonna’s ascent to fame and fortune, there’s been a pretty vicious competition for credit in being involved. In other words, someone will say, “I launched Madonna.” If I talk to a lot of people today, I will say I was Madonna’s first producer. I produced six of the eight tracks on her first record. I would say nine times out of 10, their response will be, “Oh yeah, I thought Jellybean did that.” But Jellybean didn't do that. Jellybean was a remixer, and we didn’t have time to remix records. It wasn’t something that I was interested in doing. Somewhere in this process of publicists and personal relationships, somehow he came out as the guy.

I was a traditionalist and probably a little naive at the time, but I started out working for Billy Paul. Billy and his wife Blanche were like parents to me. They took me under their wing. I was a little kid. They took me on the road. They looked after me. They supported me. I joined Miles Davis’s band. Miles introduced me to the world of big-time jazz success. I played at the greatest halls in the world and stayed at the finest hotels. Miles was like a surrogate father to the guys in the band. You got credit for the work you did. You were a member of Miles’s band. When I worked for Roberta Flack, Stephanie Mills, and Phyllis Hyman, we made the records and people would say, “Oh, you produced that record.” You produced one good record for Stephanie Mills and take her from selling no records to selling gold records; they would call you back and treat you better.

So this Madonna record was my first and worst introduction to the notion that you wouldn’t have a linear continuation with someone who you’ve had success with. It totally blindsided me. I understand it a little bit better now, but not really. Just for the record, one tires in a lifetime of hearing someone taking credit for something that you've done. Jellybean produced “Holiday” and he remixed a couple of tracks, but remixing tracks for radio isn’t the same thing as producing one of the major breakout pop stars of the 1980s. Now there’s Wikipedia and you'll always find these distortions in Wikipedia. My kids find this stuff and they fix it for me. [laughs] I don’t think there’s really ever been someone to clear this up. Madonna certainly hasn't helped at all. I think if it were left up to Madonna, she wouldn't talk about anybody.

The bottom line is that, I think, the kind way that Madonna has always tried to refer to me is that I was just an R&B producer. There are two things that I dislike about that. First thing is, that it treats being an R&B producer as pejorative, as if it were something less than being a pop or rock producer. Second thing is, that I didn’t make an R&B record for her. I made a crossover pop record of the highest order. So the notion that she similarly dismissed me because I was just an R&B producer is offensive on multiple levels to me.

It’s hurtful because I didn’t understand it. I did the same thing I always did. I came in and worked my ass off to support the artist and cast them in a good light. Everybody but her reciprocated by saying they liked the record, and let's make another one. Between her and Jellybean, they try to pretend the records I did weren’t any good. It’s almost like I was fired or something. I wasn't fired. I finished the record, I put it out, and they took it and put it out and sold a bunch of records. And everybody else ran around trying to take credit for it because it was so big that they couldn’t help themselves.

----

Sorry for the long texts but I think it's about time that Madonna fans acknowledge Reggie Lucas over Jellybean.

I am not saying he was inexperienced or unprofessional. He abandoned the project in spite of Madonna not being satisfied with the final result. I am aware that Jellybean was a DJ and not a producer but his tweaks on Burning Up, Physical Attraction, Lucky Star and Borderline all sounded far better than Reggie’s final takes. Jellybean’s mixes made these songs timeless.

Also, as far as I know Jellybean mostly demanded co-production credit which is a fair point. He added quite a lot of new elements to some songs and even replaced some of the original instrument stems. Reggie got enough credit. He even got writing credit for songs he didn’t write himself entirely. 

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39 minutes ago, MaDöner Kebab said:

He even got writing credit for songs he didn’t write himself entirely. 

What do you mean? Reggie wrote Borderline and Physical Attraction specifically for Madonna!

Maybe you are confusing with Everybody and Ain't no big deal? Both written by Madonna and Steve Bray but eventually each of them got single credits to both (Everybody to Madonna, Ain't no big deal to Steve)

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17 hours ago, Prayer said:

"Deeper And Deeper" on "GHV2" has always been labeled as "7'' Edit", of course in the original physical release in 2001 but also later on digital. There hasn't been a recent change on that one - cause it's always been correct.

If you say so, I remember I had to go onto my Serato DJ program and take screen shots of the sound waves to show/prove the difference to folks on here that said it was not.

e45ca000-4a98-4a72-89d7-56ac9a4056aa_tex

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7 minutes ago, survivalartist said:

If you say so, I remember I had to go onto my Serato DJ program and take screen shots of the sound waves to show/prove the difference to folks on here that said it was not.

e45ca000-4a98-4a72-89d7-56ac9a4056aa_tex

Who claimed that? The album version is even longer, 5:33 vs 4:54 of the "7'' Edit" on "GHV2", so just for that fact alone it's crystal clear they're different I think.

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Guys, instead of discussing the past and its could've's, should've's and would've's, why not try flood Rhino's socials asking them to upload whole Just Say Yes compilations to streamings so we can have finally Goodbye to Innocence?? You could team to stans to the other artists linked to the volumes to get a louder noise if necessary! Imho it's the only possible way to have this on streamings! If I haven't put my mental health first and above all socials, I'd do my part! Warner could even add the "by demand" tag if they don't want to get to controversy! Imo it's much better than crying on how useless madonna.com has been since Madonna left Warner!

At least there's a chance to get the compilations on the Spotify's so...

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19 minutes ago, Anapausis said:

Guys, instead of discussing the past and its could've's, should've's and would've's, why not try flood Rhino's socials asking them to upload whole Just Say Yes compilations to streamings so we can have finally Goodbye to Innocence?? You could team to stans to the other artists linked to the volumes to get a louder noise if necessary! Imho it's the only possible way to have this on streamings! If I haven't put my mental health first and above all socials, I'd do my part! Warner could even add the "by demand" tag if they don't want to get to controversy! Imo it's much better than crying on how useless madonna.com has been since Madonna left Warner!

At least there's a chance to get the compilations on the Spotify's so...

"Instead of discussing the past let's discuss other time of the past" :shade2:

If we can't have all of official stuff uploaded, hoping for a random charity compilation is just wishful thinking. Not gonna happen. I'd wait for an "Erotica" expanded edition for "Goodbye To Innocence" to have a home in streaming, honestly, makes more sense.

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