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"I'll be Israel, if they're incarcerated"


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25 minutes ago, PlayPause said:

absolutely

I'm not defending war criminals and war crimes, never will. 

In my opinion, the line "I'll be Israel if they're incarcerated" can't be interpreted as a comment on the contemporary Palestinian tragedy. How do you understand "incarcerated" if so ? 

Lynch mob mentality.

Antisemitism is still happening.

Despite the brutal and unforgivable actions of Israel in Palestine, don't feed the monster. That's what the song is about.

 

 

In her own words the song is about the “oppression of patriarchy”. And yet, present day Israel, is a clear example of that. So that lyric is very ignorant and goes against the message of the song. Which is why she changed it…

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That's not even the only problematic line. She also used the term "Indians" to refer to Native Americans. I really love this song, but there are a couple of lines that should have been written differently and were a bit disappointing coming from Madonna. I expect better from someone who calls herself "woke" 

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 I’m late but my thoughts are that Madonna wrote this song for whoever has and is being oppressed. It’s happened to every country and people at one time or another ... and that we should put ourselves in their shoes and try to find a way to help and be loving and forgiving instead of hating and making it worse. It’s about finding a way to peace. 

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4 hours ago, thegoldencalf said:

And yet, present day Israel, is a clear example of that

Present day Israel = 73 years since the country was created.

Israel as a community = millennia

Why do you feel the need to be so reductive?

Since you keep on believing that she's referring to Israel as if she were a supporter of the state, what does "incarcerated" mean? Do you think she would be against the imprisonment of some political leaders or the military for bombing Gaza? Does it make sense with what we know of her or with what she sings in Batuka?

Since American Life, it's quite clear that M isn't very fond of governments, especially the warmongering ones.

3 hours ago, Fabiolous said:

"Indians" to refer to Native Americans

Same same

I agree that the lyrics are clumsy and it was noted by the critics since the album was released.

Being woke does not solve problems though, it's just a modern way of acknowledging the injustice and social issues. Patriarchy is a mindset, a timeless, transcultural, transnational system, so the way of fighting it cannot be brought down to vocabulary.

Would history have been different if Native Americans were called by that name when their land was taken? Obviously, no. "Native Indian" can also be interpreted as a finger pointed to the misjudgments and preconceptions of the KWAP, referring to their beliefs when this invasion happened. They were wrong all along.

Not every line in the song is about present times. Actually, very few are a commentary on the world as it is today. "The gay" being burned is hopefully not something that happens very often nowadays, but it's still a very moving and nightmarish image.

I really think that these lyrics are written on purpose, as a provocation. Her choice of words is not THAT simplistic. Ask yourselves: who is she talking about? Is Madonna an ignorant person?

Don't fall into the trap. Fight the real enemy, don't party with the killers.

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1 hour ago, PlayPause said:

Present day Israel = 73 years since the country was created.

Israel as a community = millennia

Why do you feel the need to be so reductive?

Since you keep on believing that she's referring to Israel as if she were a supporter of the state, what does "incarcerated" mean? Do you think she would be against the imprisonment of some political leaders or the military for bombing Gaza? Does it make sense with what we know of her or with what she sings in Batuka?

Since American Life, it's quite clear that M isn't very fond of governments, especially the warmongering ones.

Israel is not a community it’s a country with a government and policies. A community would be Jews.

That’s like saying United States as a reference to Native Americans 😂

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"The gay", "Africa", "the poor", "the children", "Islam", "Israel", "the Indian", "a woman" : these categories are all seen as inferior or expendable or unwanted people by their oppressors. The vagueness expresses how little the patriarchy feels concerned about them. It's metaphorical dehumanization, one of the most powerful weapons used by exploiters.  The lack of consideration for their targets' humanity makes it easier to party after they've killed them, guilt-free.

M takes the side of these anonymized victims.

M doesn't sing about specific events throughout the song. Only "I'll be a woman if she's raped..." is a nod to her personal experience, and it means that every previous label in the lyrics designates people. She recollects her rape as a sad and painful realization of what it feels like for a girl to live in the world where killers (another dehumanized category that includes rapists) just want to have fun. A way of saying that, the day it happened, she wasn't Madonna sexually assaulted by criminals, she was just another woman living under the patriarchal rules.

In the end, after all these symbolic characters not seen as real persons, she asks herself and the listener: do you know who you are? The outro mirrors Dark Ballet: the storm isn't in the air, it's inside of us.

(so the change for Palestine in the live version kind of breaks her metaphor, and brings a political and contemporary meaning to the song)

Again, and I'm done with this nonsensical conversation, about the use of Israel, she says "they", so it's literally several people, not one country. This should have rung a bell from day one.

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1 hour ago, PlayPause said:

"The gay", "Africa", "the poor", "the children", "Islam", "Israel", "the Indian", "a woman" : these categories are all seen as inferior or expendable or unwanted people by their oppressors. The vagueness expresses how little the patriarchy feels concerned about them. It's a metaphor for dehumanization, one of the most powerful weapons used by exploiters.  The lack of consideration for their humanity makes it easier to party after they've killed them.

M takes the side of these anonymized victims.

M doesn't sing about specific events throughout the song. Only "I'll be a woman if she's raped..." is a nod to her personal experience, and it means that every previous label in the lyrics designates people. She recollects her rape as a sad and painful realization of what feels like for a girl. A way of saying that, the day it happened, it wasn't Madonna sexually assaulted by criminals, it was just another woman living in the patriarchal world.

(so the change for Palestine in the live version kind of breaks her metaphor, and brings a political and contemporary meaning to the song)

Again, and I'm done with this nonsensical conversation, about the use of Israel, she says "they", so it's literally several people, not one country. This should have rung a bell from day one.

You've typed this long analysis of the song and it's really well written, but I still think Israel was a very poor choice in words. She could have definitely made less ambiguous. 

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5 hours ago, Fabiolous said:

You've typed this long analysis of the song and it's really well written, but I still think Israel was a very poor choice in words. She could have definitely made less ambiguous. 

Why?

She’d have to be literal because people cant be bothered to think a little?

Or not assume the worst?

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