Will we ever get real 4k videos? Mariah Carey did it with Fantasy

[amscity 565]

Today Mariah Carey released Fantasy, both the original and remix videos, in 4K.

 

 

Unlike the previous "upgrades" for almost all her videos, these ones really look like real 4K and not upscale.

Do you think we'll ever get this from Madonna? I was just imagining videos like Like A Virgin, Papa Don't Preach, Like A Prayer, Express Yourself, Vogue, Bedtime Story, Die Another Day and her entire videography in this quality. The best we've gotten so far is the Hung Up one.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

[realityisalways 4,011]

This fucking formula of releasing a single with a remix that has alternate lyrics and flow, and releasing two videos with different scenes is fucking heaven. This idea probably came from Tommy Mottola. I wish artists did this more often, would have loved for Madonna to do this.

[Régine Filange 2,582]

no 

but hung up, erotica and frozen quality is equally good as the fantasy one, 4k or not

[Spanky1995 2,831]

She has her Christmas money to spend before October when it all starts again lol 

[Fighter 28,798]

thats gorgeous quality, I hope one day it happens for some Madonna video at least ?

[deathproof 10,582]

33 minutes ago, realityisalways said:

This idea probably came from Tommy Mottola.

Mariah! ?

[realityisalways 4,011]

26 minutes ago, Fighter said:

thats gorgeous quality, I hope one day it happens for some Madonna video at least ?

Hopefully its not for Dear Jessie.

[Fabiolous 5,489]

No

[Karma 2,818]

From what I have heard, it's an expensive and difficult process, considering most of her videos were not originally shot on 35mm film but I think a more knowledgeable fan could explain the process better 

I think landmark music videos like "Vogue" and "Like A Prayer" deserve to be enjoyed in full 4k glory but I'll take a 1080p upscale if it's done tastefully (her team did a great job with "Papa Don't Preach" and "Cherish", credit where credit is due).

That being said, "Bedtime Story", "Material Girl" and "Dress You Up" were exhibited in theaters back in the day, so the 35mm film reels DO exist somewhere and it can be done if they ever find them.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/35mm-music-videos-to-blu-ray-e-g-madonna.1450601/

And there's also the soundtrack singles ("Into The Groove", "Don't Cry For Me Argentina", "Crazy For You"). The original movies are already available on 1080p Blu-Ray, they just need to recreate the music videos.

[Husam Elzien 656]

Eventually but probably for the biggies only.

[artlover 3,956]

2 hours ago, realityisalways said:

This idea probably came from Tommy Mottola.

That was her idea. 

[Karma 2,818]

39 minutes ago, OlracKrap said:

Most of Madonna's music videos were shot on film except probably anything pre-1984, it's not THAT expensive to transfer film to 4K (most companies charge per 100 ft of film). It's not difficult or complicated. The film elements are fed into a 4K/8K scanner (like the SPIRIT 4K scanner) and scanned very quickly depending on the running time of the footage. The only 'difficult' part is when there are some issues with splices, sprocket hole damage to the 35mm negative or older nitrate film which doesn't concern us here. If there is a lot of dust and dirt they just do a 'wet scan' which temporarily fills in scratches and removes most of the dirt while scanning. (which you can see from the AVS article you linked).  The problem is the longer Madonna and her team waits the less chance there is to save the negatives before they start to deteriorate and discolor, sharpness will be lost and eventually irreversible damage. This is disturbing especially when lesser known artists with far less money have done right by their fans and is committed to preserving their art.

Some fans are happy with 'upscaling' but a lot of fine detail like color vibrancy, film grain and sharpness is lost and the end result has a 'waxy' smearing effect to it.

https://youtu.be/5SVlUKxbRAo

Wow, thanks for the reply! This is a very informative post. On one hand, I respect the idea that Madonna probably still sees herself as a current artist focused in the present who doesn’t need to constantly remind people about her prime (Alanis, Bonnie, Spice Girls, Cyndi, etc. had fairly short-lived commercial runs, so they pretty much have no choice) but on the other hand, I agree that is questionable that the catalogue of someone as wealthy and culturally significant as the Queen Of Pop isn't preserved in the highest quality possible. Maybe that will change with the upcoming biopic campaign, though. Despite the randomness of it all, I think the digital maxi singles and the video upscales are leading into her "legacy" era.

[Blue Jean 15,194]

1 hour ago, Karma said:

 

And there's also the soundtrack singles ("Into The Groove", "Don't Cry For Me Argentina", "Crazy For You"). The original movies are already available on 1080p Blu-Ray, they just need to recreate the music videos.

Into the Groove and a Crazy for You both contain footage that are not in the movies

[realityisalways 4,011]

It could be worse though, I mean Janet uploaded a video in 360p in 2009
 

 

[lucasciccone 4,221]

I don't think it's happening any time soon but I hope eventually in the future it's going to happen.  Can you imagine seeing her videos in true 4k HD... Like A Prayer, Express Yourself, Vogue, Bedtime Story... Ugh. A dream!

[thegoldencalf 12,575]

The more this issue is brought up and the more it’s done by other artists the bigger the chance of it actually happening. 
If those reels still exist, I estimate we’ll get them in about 5 years from now, judging by the lag her catalogue has compared to other artists 

[Rocco Comelon 5,252]

Let me add this topic, Spandau Ballet music video for "Gold" was remastered in HD as it is used to be originally uploaded in their YT account in 240p only.

 

In my opinion, it is possible to remaster her 80s MV in 4k but I don't know if it that's part of Madonna or her team's plan.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Robertson II
grammar (see edit history)

[anton5000 1,493]

2 hours ago, OlracKrap said:

Most of Madonna's music videos were shot on film except probably anything pre-1984, it's not THAT expensive to transfer film to 4K (most companies charge per 100 ft of film). It's not difficult or complicated. The film elements are fed into a 4K/8K scanner (like the SPIRIT 4K scanner) and scanned very quickly depending on the running time of the footage. The only 'difficult' part is when there are some issues with splices, sprocket hole damage to the 35mm negative or older nitrate film which doesn't concern us here. If there is a lot of dust and dirt they just do a 'wet scan' which temporarily fills in scratches and removes most of the dirt while scanning. (which you can see from the AVS article you linked).  The problem is the longer Madonna and her team waits the less chance there is to save the negatives before they start to deteriorate and discolor, sharpness will be lost and eventually irreversible damage. This is disturbing especially when lesser known artists with far less money have done right by their fans and is committed to preserving their art.

Some fans are happy with 'upscaling' but a lot of fine detail like color vibrancy, film grain and sharpness is lost and the end result has a 'waxy' smearing effect to it.

https://youtu.be/5SVlUKxbRAo

Thanks for the thorough explanation! My concern is for the music videos shot after the 1990s (when editing software began to appear, rather than manual cut and paste, transition effects, etc)... which yes, could've been shot in film but then if it was scanned at whatever resolution the machine was capable at the time (576p probably), feed that into the video editing program and edit from there, the master would be locked at that resolution (or whatever resolution a master tape would handle, but I doubt 4K or even HD). Unless specifically it was re-exported back into film.

So in that case, it would be somewhat of a complicated job as they'd have to scan all the original film footage again in 4K, and have someone to re-edit the music video (or replicate it frame by frame as the original) to have the same result. I think George Michael did that with one of his videos (the director himself was involved in the re-editing process) and it looked amazing. However, I doubt Warner/Madonna would invest that much money, time, and people power into doing something like this... which is very sad considering she has many best videos ever in the pop music history :( Maybe they'll put an effort only with big videos like Vogue.

[Rocco Comelon 5,252]

2 hours ago, OlracKrap said:

Most of Madonna's music videos were shot on film except probably anything pre-1984, it's not THAT expensive to transfer film to 4K (most companies charge per 100 ft of film). It's not difficult or complicated. The film elements are fed into a 4K/8K scanner (like the SPIRIT 4K scanner) and scanned very quickly depending on the running time of the footage. The only 'difficult' part is when there are some issues with splices, sprocket hole damage to the 35mm negative or older nitrate film which doesn't concern us here. If there is a lot of dust and dirt they just do a 'wet scan' which temporarily fills in scratches and removes most of the dirt while scanning. (which you can see from the AVS article you linked).  The problem is the longer Madonna and her team waits the less chance there is to save the negatives before they start to deteriorate and discolor, sharpness will be lost and eventually irreversible damage. This is disturbing especially when lesser known artists with far less money have done right by their fans and is committed to preserving their art.

Some fans are happy with 'upscaling' but a lot of fine detail like color vibrancy, film grain and sharpness is lost and the end result has a 'waxy' smearing effect to it.

https://youtu.be/5SVlUKxbRAo

Absolutely. Very detailed. I hope they could do it to her other MVs like Vogue if those pre-1984 MVs are losing its ability to be available in 4k. We're still hoping for the pre-1984 too.

[blondebenji 1,884]

i just have fingers crossed for the current upgrades of Lucky star, Like a virgin, Like a prayer, oh father, Vogue, Justify my love, Human nature  you'll see and power of goodbye atm

[ITG 3,321]

NO!

[RayofPrayers 581]

2 hours ago, realityisalways said:

It could be worse though, I mean Janet uploaded a video in 360p in 2009
 

 

Um, and Madonna's team uploaded Celebration in 240p in that same year 

[Blue Jean 15,194]

3 hours ago, anton5000 said:

Thanks for the thorough explanation! My concern is for the music videos shot after the 1990s (when editing software began to appear, rather than manual cut and paste, transition effects, etc)... which yes, could've been shot in film but then if it was scanned at whatever resolution the machine was capable at the time (576p probably), feed that into the video editing program and edit from there, the master would be locked at that resolution (or whatever resolution a master tape would handle, but I doubt 4K or even HD). Unless specifically it was re-exported back into film.

So in that case, it would be somewhat of a complicated job as they'd have to scan all the original film footage again in 4K, and have someone to re-edit the music video (or replicate it frame by frame as the original) to have the same result. I think George Michael did that with one of his videos (the director himself was involved in the re-editing process) and it looked amazing. However, I doubt Warner/Madonna would invest that much money, time, and people power into doing something like this... which is very sad considering she has many best videos ever in the pop music history :( Maybe they'll put an effort only with big videos like Vogue.

Honestly I do not want Madonna’s team to attempt to re-edit her old videos. You know they will get it wrong. They will probably even put Snapchat filters on her 

I was looking at Prince’s insta today and I was thinking how suave all the promos, graphics etc advertising the new album and the podcasts they’re doing. Same thing for the Sign O the times rerelease. Which was also A gorgeous package. Meanwhile Madonna’s team are posting cheap looking ads for a Cherish upscale using the Bedtime Stories font.

I hate to say this but I think sometimes these things are handled better when the artist is gone and can’t interfere.

[Warm Gun 186]

4K? I'm not that greedy. I'd be very happy with grainy, more saturated, filmic looking native HD Blu-rays. I don't think we will ever get anything as packed as the Celebration DVDs, though. Not even close to it.

[Prayer 14,331]

2 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

Honestly I do not want Madonna’s team to attempt to re-edit her old videos. You know they will get it wrong. They will probably even put Snapchat filters on her 

I was looking at Prince’s insta today and I was thinking how suave all the promos, graphics etc advertising the new album and the podcasts they’re doing. Same thing for the Sign O the times rerelease. Which was also A gorgeous package. Meanwhile Madonna’s team are posting cheap looking ads for a Cherish upscale using the Bedtime Stories font.

I hate to say this but I think sometimes these things are handled better when the artist is gone and can’t interfere.

The fact that videos need to be re-edited for the 4K version would be a recipe for disaster in Madonna's case, I agree. I'm sure a key moment would be out or changed and we'd be all pissed off. 

About Prince's Estate: yeah, they're working their a***s off with all the Deluxe editions and "new" albums, in terms of promotion and marketing. They're doing a great job. BUT there are quality issues too. The latest album, "Welcome 2 America", seems to be sourced from a CD-R that Prince had, not original files or anything, hence it has some glitches and stuff and some fans are very unhappy about that.