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GIRD YOUR LOINS M IS PERFORMING TONIGHT! @ The VMA'S!


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DiegoLCL

I'm sorry but there's nothing groundbreaking in this. I'm totally fine with cosmetic surgery and I'm sure Madonna started doing things to her face back in the late 90's, her body her choice indeed. Also, i'm totally fine with woman of any age exploring their bodies, Grace Jones is 70+ and was topless on her last tour bursting with confidence and defiance. BUT when your face becomes paralyzed, your lip line distorted and your breasts and ass are out of human proportions that's borderline body dys

Prayer

Bitch is still on fire and living her best life, on her own terms, at 63. She's always been this way (except for the Ritchie years, all we all know how that ended up). I mean: Classic M reveal. All the negative comments about her looks, attitude, etc. are getting tiring now. She's not gonna stop. And she's not gonna stop aging. You're not gonna see BAT Madonna, Dita, ROL Madonna, Confessions Madonna or any perfect image of her you have in your mind. That's the past. This is

Karma

I...did not expect so many negative reactions in this thread. I thought the opening sequence was brilliant. The nod to New York City, the classic "$35 dollars and a dream" story and watching all those iconic videos displayed at once in Times Square really put into context everything she has achieved in the past 40 years. It dawned on me that it will never be another megastar like Madonna and once again, it remind me of the sheer magnitude of her legacy. As for the actual appearance, I

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11 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

I guess her stance is that if Kim K or Nicki Minaj can do it so can she. Theirs also looks weird to me.

Yup Kim K's ass looks horrendous. When she wears Jeans it looks like she has shelves at her waist. I haven't seen Nicki is years but I remember her ass was too big for her small body. 

And M's ass looks awful. 

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5 hours ago, steady75 said:

I guess some of us just see her more than a dancing puppet and care about her well being health wise, physically, emotionally and mentally. I don’t think that’s reactionary, over blown or rageful. It’s concern, but if you chose to frame it that way that’s on you. 
 

We’ve seen concerning  behaviour from her peers in terms of body image, substance abuse and controlling relationships and most of them are now dead. 
 

I think I’ve been a fan long enough to warrant noting a moment or pattern of concern. 
Yes Madonna is person but she is also a cultural icon and her journey matters. 
I tend to flip between a cultural case study and a woman I love in terms of critique / praise / compassion. 
 

These lambasting “you’re all misogynistic ageists” comments that get thrown out actually attempt to kill the conversation dead and move the spotlight. There are those that are, there are also those that wonder what is going on rather than just screaming “yass mamma werq fuck the haters” 

Second to this we know she has is attempting to tackle ageism and her continued fight against misogyny so…. We’re talking about it right? 
As with most worthy causes there are some ways to go about it that are more successful than others. I’d argue extensive, bordering on body dysmorphic, procedures probably aren’t they best route but that’s another conversation. Choice vs pressure on women and the male gaze. Is she leaning / pushing against that or is she leaning into it or perpetuating it.. or is she past that? 
Fuck the patriarchy is something I am more than down with. Not sure a giant fake ass and two fingers up is gonna dismantle that. 
She’s a feminist icon. It would be amiss to not observe and discuss the validity of her actions and also how her personal life affects those actions. 

Its nuanced and not as you paint it.
No beef but that’s my view. 

Why this concern about her well being? 
You don’t know her. You don’t really know anything about her private life. 
She has a family, a boyfriend and plenty of friends. She’s also rich and can afford the best healthcare in the world. Also she’s not one of these celebrities going on tv and crying about how miserable she is. 
As far as we know she’s living her life and does her thing the way SHE CHOOSES to. 
The last thing she wants or needs is for a bunch of strangers’ unwarranted concern 

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17 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

Why this concern about her well being? 
You don’t know her. You don’t really know anything about her private life. 
She has a family, a boyfriend and plenty of friends. She’s also rich and can afford the best healthcare in the world. Also she’s not one of these celebrities going on tv and crying about how miserable she is. 
As far as we know she’s living her life and does her thing the way SHE CHOOSES to. 
The last thing she wants or needs is for a bunch of strangers’ unwarranted concern 

Not saying she isn’t happy. Not saying she’s got health issues. Not saying she needs the concern of strangers on the internet. Not saying I know her. 
 

I’m a fan. It’s perfectly legitimate for me to hypothesise about her motives and mental state of mind. In a world where we are now encouraged to talk about and look out for mental health issues I think it’s fair to question why someone wants to change and curate their appearance to such an elaborate degree, whilst also noticing their waning confidence levels in public appearances and interviews. 
Its just an observation that’s perfectly acceptable to discuss. 
I find the attempted shut downs a bit weird to be honest. 
2021 I guess. 

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43 minutes ago, steady75 said:

Not saying she isn’t happy. Not saying she’s got health issues. Not saying she needs the concern of strangers on the internet. Not saying I know her. 
 

I’m a fan. It’s perfectly legitimate for me to hypothesise about her motives and mental state of mind. In a world where we are now encouraged to talk about and look out for mental health issues I think it’s fair to question why someone wants to change and curate their appearance to such an elaborate degree, whilst also noticing their waning confidence levels in public appearances and interviews. 
Its just an observation that’s perfectly acceptable to discuss. 
I find the attempted shut downs a bit weird to be honest. 
2021 I guess. 

But think about. It’s kind of disrespectful.

What if you posted a photo or video online where you feel good about how you look and someone, even more so someone you don’t know and knows nothing about you, would comment “oh my god! You don’t look healthy. I’m concerned about your well-being.”

I know I’d be very pissed and it would make me feel extremely insecure and probably cause mental health issues where there might be none.

Obviously she’s flaunting it and everyone is in their right to express their opinion openly. But it’s one thing to say “oh I don’t like or approve” and it’s another to say “there’s something wrong with you” 

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11 minutes ago, thegoldencalf said:

But think about. It’s kind of disrespectful.

What if you posted a photo or video online where you feel good about how you look and someone, even more so someone you don’t know and knows nothing about you, would comment “oh my god! You don’t look healthy. I’m concerned about your well-being.”

I know I’d be very pissed and it would make me feel extremely insecure and probably cause mental health issues where there might be none.

Obviously she’s flaunting it and everyone is in their right to express their opinion openly. But it’s one thing to say “oh I don’t like or approve” and it’s another to say “there’s something wrong with you” 

But that’s kind of the point in part. The photos aren’t real. They’re hyper edited on top of the already huge amount of cosmetic work and the best stylist hair make up and wardrobe that money can buy. 
When is it enough? 
Who is the deceitful, disingenuous party? 
What message does that send to young girls, her daughters, anyone? 

We were fine to question Michael Jackson’s surgery and self body image… but not Madonna’s… because she is a woman… of a certain age? Double standards. 

I’m not stating what’s right or wrong? I’m pointing out that the messaging is worth debating. 

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How many young girls are looking to Madonna as an image role model though? 
 

I think most of her fans are older and not as impressionable.  I am the biggest Madonna fan in the world, but I have never looked at her Instagram and said to myself I must get Botox, a face lift, or get my butt or breasts enhanced to look like Madonna. 

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14 minutes ago, steady75 said:

But that’s kind of the point in part. The photos aren’t real. They’re hyper edited on top of the already huge amount of cosmetic work and the best stylist hair make up and wardrobe that money can buy. 
When is it enough? 
Who is the deceitful, disingenuous party? 
What message does that send to young girls, her daughters, anyone? 

We were fine to question Michael Jackson’s surgery and self body image… but not Madonna’s… because she is a woman… of a certain age? Double standards. 

I’m not stating what’s right or wrong? I’m pointing out that the messaging is worth debating. 

One of the reasons people questioned Michael Jackson was everything else in his life which made him seem maladjusted. He didn’t have normal friendships and romantic relationships, but spent his time with young boys and was basically a recluse. The plastic surgery was just one more thing on top of all that. 
Madonna has a boyfriend, tons of friends and is not a recluse. 

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At the end of the day Madonna WANTS the controversy. That's why she did this. So if there wouldn't be people bitching about it (like me lol) it wouldn't have succeeded. Continue to express yourselves, all of you. But be careful in trying to silence people and pulling the ageist and misogony card. That's done far too quickly: atleast amongst fans of Madonna. 

Since her gender is often brought up in this debate and how she can do whatever she wants because she is a woman and all that....

People SHOULD be able to question women. They are like men, capable of being reasonable sane adults. They are equal, So i treat them that way.

We need to be careful in tiptoing around women like they can't take it. No that doesn't mean to freely attack them. But dialogue and questioning should be allowed. If we can't hold them accountable, how does it help them? This goes for any gender. Bubblewrapping women from cririque like they are victims of this world is not helpful or empowering. Again doesn't mean to go on a rampage of roasting them. But questioning and discussing their behavior should be fine. 

In my opinion Madonna has alot of yes people around her.

I made comments earlier about Madonnas cheeks and stuff, well both sets of her cheeks. And i wouldn't post it under Madonnas photoa or on her social media. But this is a fan forum. I'm going to discuss, as others should be able to do so. 

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Of course women can be criticized, but I personally don’t think they should be criticized for their body which they have ownership over and doesn’t affect anyone else. They can and should be criticized for their opinions political and otherwise they say in interviews if they are problematic or people are offended. 
Society doesn’t comment on and judge  men’s bodies in the same way. 

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21 minutes ago, Glindathegood said:

I have to disagree with you there, it can be just as hard for a man, especially comments on weight that man has a big belly, he doesn’t have muscles, also that guy isnt masculine enough or that guy is too feminine the latter 2 especially apply to guys in the gay community. 

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8 minutes ago, Matty said:

I have to disagree with you there, it can be just as hard for a man, especially comments on weight that man has a big belly, he doesn’t have muscles, also that guy isnt masculine enough or that guy is too feminine the latter 2 especially apply to guys in the gay community. 

Maybe in the gay community but not in the mainstream media. Recently there has been more criticism of how men look, but I’m talking historically.  People talk a lot more about how Kamala Harris looks than they do Joe Biden. 

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10 minutes ago, Matty said:

I have to disagree with you there, it can be just as hard for a man, especially comments on weight that man has a big belly, he doesn’t have muscles, also that guy isnt masculine enough or that guy is too feminine the latter 2 especially apply to guys in the gay community. 

Matty please, the last two are personality related, not body related, and the first two are something only some shallow as fuck gay guys judge you for.

Women have to deal with both straight men and gay men who have an opinion on their bodies.

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16 minutes ago, slutpride said:

Matty please, the last two are personality related, not body related, and the first two are something only some shallow as fuck gay guys judge you for.

Women have to deal with both straight men and gay men who have an opinion on their bodies.

Women also have to deal with women. Don't forget them.

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7 hours ago, steady75 said:

I find it odd that you chose NOT to question anything more than anything else….. Apart from my point of view of course..You are happy to question that, seemingly only because it doesn’t marry with your, (dare I say), slightly myopic view. 

Is it not curious that you take no balanced view of any of the concerns and legitimate questions raised or hinted at by numerous forum members and chose to just … blindly defend her albeit legitimate choices? 
 

No one is saying she shouldn’t do exactly what she wants, but for me to just eradicate any thought process as to why she does it or what it does or doesn’t say about her particular mind set or brand of feminism or whatever, is utterly absurd. She can do what she wants, I can think how I want. Why is that so threatening to you? 
 

I find it weird that a fan of a woman who taught us to question, chooses …not to question her, but only those that question her. 
 

It’s clear we won’t agree, but my thoughts still stand and it would seem I’m not alone. 

Sorry I had to go to work...  Where to begin... First off, none of this is personal. I know sometimes things can sound personal or like an attack, but thats not the case. 

I find it odd that you chose NOT to question anything more than anything else….. Apart from my point of view of course..You are happy to question that, seemingly only because it doesn’t marry with your, (dare I say), slightly myopic view. 

I actually didn't offer an opinion or a viewpoint so I'm unsure how you can label my view as myopic. 

Is it not curious that you take no balanced view of any of the concerns and legitimate questions raised or hinted at by numerous forum members and chose to just … blindly defend her albeit legitimate choices? 

If you re-read what I wrote, I am not defending her. I am questioning why people are adding 1+2=5. My problem isn't with opinions or the questioning of why or how. My problem is with unreasonable assumptions. Just because she is pictured with a glass of champagne often doesn't mean she has a drinking problem. Just like if she doesn't post her kids on instagram for a week, it doesn't mean she left them on the side of the road. It's stupid. I'm all for debate and the such, but if that is the starting point there's nowhere to go. It's just like all those people in the 90's who thought her house was definitely a sex dungeon, because of Erotica and the Sex book.

 

 

 

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Madonna's now reached the level of scrutiny Michael Jackson did over allegations of plastic surgery. But it's not just Madonna. Kylie Jenner is much, much younger and reportedly had extensive work done. And there are French-Canadian stars Anne-Marie Losique and Julie Snyder who apparently had quite some work done. And there's Hunter Tylo: once considered one of the most beautiful women of daytime TV, she apparently had quite some work done as well.

And there are Cher, Meg Ryan, Courtney Love, Mylène Farmer, Britney Spears and plenty of others (incl. tons and tons of models and porn stars, many of whom are quite young) who seemingly had a number of procedures as well (Cher, Love and Spears have all admitted to some procedures at least). And we can add Marilyn Monroe to the list!

Madonna's therefore not the only one. If much younger stars like Jenner or Spears had work done, why is it such a scandal for Mo to do the same? And it's not just surgery or botox or fillers or implants. It's also all the cleansing, exfoliating, all the creams, serums, sophisticated facial treatments (blue light, the MDNA Skin wand, etc.) + some sleep (I hope) and good make up. Madonna's just exposing what many, many—numerous girls are doing. 

Victoria Beckham said it best: "If you haven't got it, fake it!"

Edited by Arckangel (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, Arckangel said:

Madonna's now reached the level of scrutiny Michael Jackson did over allegations of plastic surgery.

She hasn't. Of course is something that is commented from time to time cause it's obvious. But no way she's getting the heat MJ did for that.

Actually, the worst comments about the VMAs thing seem to be in this forum... press was quite good to her this time, focusing on the shock factor but that's it. 

https://www.womenshealthmag.com/fitness/a37575648/madonna-butt-vma-2021/

https://americansongwriter.com/2021-vmas-madonna-shocks-crowd-yet-again/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9984387/Madonna-SHOCKS-2021-VMAs-kicks-BDSM-look-surprise-appearance.html
 

 

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