Jump to content

Madame X, Dave Chappelle, ‘Transphobia’ & Cancel Culture


tajybajyboo
 Share

Recommended Posts

Okay, very serious topic to discuss, which is potentially quite volatile, but I’m genuinely interested to know where other Madonna’s fans sit on this debate.

As I’m sure most of you know by now, comedian Dave Chappelle featured in the recent Madame X movie, where he gave a lengthy speech about art and freedom. Obviously the Madame X movie only premiered a couple of weeks ago, but the clip was filmed during the L.A shows, in 2019.

Chappelle is now under fire (again) for ‘transphobic’ jokes in a recent stand-up special, called ‘Closer’, available on Netflix. Today, some Netflix employees (we’ll see how many) are staging a walk-out in response to their employees’ refusal to take-down the Chappelle special.

I strongly advise anyone who hasn’t seen Closer to watch it ASAP, so you can form your own opinion of Chappelle’s comments before it gets taken down. He also speaks at length about cancel culture, which is deeply ironic given the current situation.

Clearly Madonna is no stranger to provocation and controversial opinions, and she has unfailingly supported freedom of speech throughout her career.

However, her support for the LGBT+ community is also legendary and she even showed an image of a ‘black trans lives matter’ placard during I Rise, towards the end of the Madame X concert special.

So my question is this - what should she do in regards to Dave Chappelle ‘transphobic’ controversy?

She could say nothing, but that might risk some accusing her of silently supporting Chappelle’s alleged transphobia.

She could publicly reiterate her support for him and freedom of speech, but that would almost certainly land her in hot water, with accusations of transphobia and double standards.

She could jump on the cancel culture band wagon, and remove his segment from the show, and denounce his opinion.

I’m genuinely curious to know what people think. I suspect this topic could be a hot potato, so for the sake of not being wishy-washy, I am happy to state my opinion first.

Having watched the Closer special, I don’t think Chappelle is transphobic. I do believe it should remain on Netflix for everyone to see and judge for themselves. I definitely don’t think Chappelle’s speech should be removed from the Madame X concert special, and I do believe Madonna should risk her own popularity and publicly state her support for all artists right to freedom of speech.

She’s talked an awful lot about being a freedom fighter, particularly over the last 2 years. The controversy surrounding Chappelle is a genuine opportunity to ‘walk the walk’ and put action to her words. Much like J.K. Rowling, I believe Madonna’s too big (and already far to divisive) to really be cancelled at this point in her career, but if she really believes in freedom of speech, then now is the time to speak out in support of Chappelle, and risk her own popularity for what she truly believes in. She may even gain some new fans in the process.

Thoughts? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 88
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

PaperFaces

Making a joke about something does not necessarily reveal your true feelings about it. Sometimes we need to laugh at something in order to process what it all means. It is intellectually, morally and socially irresponsible to reduce someone to a thought they might have, a feeling they express or a statement they make.  We are more than just those things. And it is important to have all of these in order to discuss  and debate.  It is through discussion and debate that we find progress.

Roland Barthes

Chappelle is a transphobic asshole and so is anyone who supports and defends him. Now if you can't live with being called transphobic then don't be. As for Madonna she should have included Lil Nas X instead of Chappelle whom no one cares about outside of the US and his coming out as terf is not his first nasty comment about the lgbt community. So if Madonna gets in hot water for standing by this moron it will be deserved because it makes her look like a hypocrite. She benefited from the trans co

robder

Great question....and there are no shoulds. ...but this is a community that needs allies. Plus the exclusionary conversations around trans people (privileged people discussing what rights you should have in the next room etc) mirror the 90s era of homophobia almost exactly. DC shouldn't be cancelled - indeed, he hasn't and will probably never be cancelled. Neither have trans people got 'thin skin' as he puts it. The trans narrative is one of survival...you have to be pretty hardco

10 minutes ago, Roland Barthes said:

Chappelle is a transphobic asshole and so is anyone who supports and defends him. Now if you can't live with being called transphobic then don't be. As for Madonna she should have included Lil Nas X instead of Chappelle whom no one cares about outside of the US and his coming out as terf is not his first nasty comment about the lgbt community. So if Madonna gets in hot water for standing by this moron it will be deserved because it makes her look like a hypocrite. She benefited from the trans community with Vogue so she should at least support them when they are attacked not only by this sack of shit but also by a huge company like Netflix whom after boring everyone with their series by (most ofthe time) ridiculously including every possible minority in the cast to boost their streaming ratings are now showing its true face.

By that same logic should Viacom (who own  Paramount + and MTV), insist on removing the Chappelle segment from Madame X or remove the show completely if Madonna refuses to comply? 
 

Should she publicly denounce Chappelle’s statements? It’s worth noting Chappelle has been accused of transphobia, homophobia, racism and misogyny long before his speech during the Madame X L.A show, so this ‘new’ controversy is only the latest in a string of accusations.
 

Madonna would have been aware of those accusations, so by including him in the film I believe she has already stated her support for his right to have an opinion, EVEN if she doesn’t necessarily agree with it.

‘Express Yourself’ is the cornerstone of Madonna’s career and surely the point of freedom of speech, is that differing opinions should not be silenced, just because one group doesn’t agree with another? I’m not trying to be antagonistic here, but who has the right to dictate what another person says or thinks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tajybajyboo said:

So my question is this - what should she do in regards to Dave Chappelle ‘transphobic’ controversy?

Great question....and there are no shoulds.

...but this is a community that needs allies.

Plus the exclusionary conversations around trans people (privileged people discussing what rights you should have in the next room etc) mirror the 90s era of homophobia almost exactly.

DC shouldn't be cancelled - indeed, he hasn't and will probably never be cancelled. Neither have trans people got 'thin skin' as he puts it. The trans narrative is one of survival...you have to be pretty hardcore to deal with that! He does however need to be publicly challenged (and repeatedly).

There's nothing more annoying than successful people with HUGE fan bases and 100,000's of followers on social media complaining about being cancelled (JK Rowling for one).

It's also lazy "comedy" because he's not talking about lived experience. This is a great youtube on the subject (just replace Ricky Gervais with David Chapelle): 

Madonna may be a trans ally and staunch supporter of gay and women's rights but she's been fairly quiet around trans politics.

I'd love to hear her speak up - whilst allowing Dave Chapelle to fail. Dialogue is important after all!...and he's got it very wrong on this occasion. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never really liked Chapelle and always found him kind of phoney. His remarks in the Netflix special were inappropriate and uncalled for and there wasn’t a context around it. 
But people should have ignored it because all this just gave him free publicity. Which is exactly what he wanted. 
Also he’s entitled to say whatever stupid bullshit he wants in his special. The problem is with Netflix for allowing that kind of hatred on their platform to begin with.

I think it would be smart for Madonna to make a statement about supporting the trans community and condemn this kind of rhetoric. 
But she shouldn’t remove his appearance  since there’s nothing wrong with it. You can agree with someone on some points and disagree on others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, at this point, from a PR standpoint, I wouldn't really address it at all unless some individual or outlet makes it an issue. No need for unnecessary drama surrounding a project that's just been released and doing well.

As for Madonna, or anyone for that matter, I think we need to remember that just because you like someone, or are friends (or even family), doesn't mean you see eye to eye on everything, or agree with everything. Just not how life works. We KNOW M's feelings about gay and trans issues. She's made that quite clear for decades. She is one of the tried-and-true ORIGINAL allies. If anything, and if she were to speak up, she could simply say what she always has - that she has always supported and stood up for the marginalized, particularly LGBTQ+ folks, and if anything, maybe she could say something like she'd like to sit down with her friend and have a discussion with him about it so he can learn more (or introduce him to Trans folks she knows to possibly facilitate that discussion). That's his issue. I don't get the vibe he's an outright hater...but I do get the feeling he's simply not educated enough about the wider Trans issue and perspectives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with most points here...other than "I don't think David Chapelle is transphobic." 

I get what's meant by this, but it's important to deconstruct what transphobia means, along with the forms it can present in.

It doesn't necessarily need to mean direct anger/abuse/insults...

Transphobia is fear of the trans agenda and what it represents. Indirect transphobia includes spouting comments that cause harm, even without the express/surface intent to do so.

I've experienced indirect homophobia millions of times in the form of tiny micro-aggressions. An example could be, "I LOVE the gays but i don't think they should be able to marry in churches simply because religion states that this kind of union should be between man and woman." (etc yawn).

David Chapelle is transphobic. But this doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be a social pariah - it just means he needs challenging; publicly, loudly and repeatedly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sick of us giving the benefit of the doubt to people who say harmful things, like you just did, @PaperFaces. What about the people who simply don't say stupid shit ever, and just want to live their lives in peace? Who gives them a gold star and lists everything good they've ever done when they make a mistake? Chappelle is going to be fine, he's got his money, his family, his lawyers, literally nothing will happen to him. Who will be accountable when they find yet another trans person murdered? Definitely not Chappelle, even though his actions pushed that trigger a micrometer more. They're an easy target for all of these terrible out-of-touch celebrities because they're almost powerless. The Netflix employees who walked out got fired. Why was their "express yourself" stance shut down brutally, while Chappelle walks away with 23 million dollars? Are you okay?

In just one of the multitude of ways he was wrong, he posits this debate as "white LGBTs" vs. "uneducated ignorant blacks", as if DaBaby isn't also a millionaire, and as if a person can't be simultaneously black and trans, making them poorer than both marginalized groups. This is called intersectionality, which he clearly knows nothing about, since he hasn't been a regular normal human being in decades. The same is true for Madonna, and it shows on occasion (let's all suppress the memory of the witch doctor whose opinions she shared on her platform with millions of followers). Celebrities need to shut up on things they know nothing about, and should uplift the voiceless. Not attack the weakest parts of society, which are already targets without their involvement. You can't use your oppression to oppress others, that's not how it works.

As for Madonna, I hope she will say something trans-supportive, no context needed. She doesn't need to cut Chappelle, she didn't do anything wrong.

I do agree that saying "Chappelle said something transphobic" and "Chappelle is a transphobe" are... sort of two different things? The other is generalization. The first can be apologized for, amended, learned from. The second is often a place where you can't return from, and I still hope this isn't yet another lost soul on the path of evil and bigotry. If he has a history of transphobia, I'm sorry for, ironically, giving him the benefit of the doubt as well. There's no excusing for what he did, just hope that he's not going to go Graham Linehan on us from now on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, New_Boy said:

I'm sick of us giving the benefit of the doubt to people who say harmful things, like you just did, @PaperFaces. What about the people who simply don't say stupid shit ever, and just want to live their lives in peace? Who gives them a gold star and lists everything good they've ever done when they make a mistake? Chappelle is going to be fine, he's got his money, his family, his lawyers, literally nothing will happen to him. Who will be accountable when they find yet another trans person murdered? Definitely not Chappelle, even though his actions pushed that trigger a micrometer more. They're an easy target for all of these terrible out-of-touch celebrities because they're almost powerless. The Netflix employees who walked out got fired. Why was their "express yourself" stance shut down brutally, while Chappelle walks away with 23 million dollars? Are you okay?

In just one multitude of ways he was wrong, he posits this debate as "white LGBTs" vs. "uneducated ignorant blacks", as if DaBaby isn't also a millionaire, and as if a person can't be simultaneously black and trans, making them poorer than both marginalized groups. This is called intersectionality, which he clearly knows nothing about, since he hasn't been a regular normal human being in decades. The same is true for Madonna, and it shows on occasion (let's all suppress the memory of the witch doctor whose opinions she shared on her platform with millions of followers). Celebrities need to shut up on things they know nothing about, and should uplift the voiceless. Not attack the weakest parts of society, which are already targets without their involvement. You can't use your oppression to oppress others, that's not how it works.

As for Madonna, I hope she will say something trans-supportive, no context needed. She doesn't need to cut Chappelle, she didn't do anything wrong.

I do agree that saying "Chappelle said something transphobic" and "Chappelle is a transphobe" are... sort of two different things? The other is generalization. The first can be apologized for, amended, learned from. The second is often a place where you can't return from, and I still hope this isn't yet another lost soul on the path of evil and bigotry. If he has a history of transphobia, I'm sorry for, ironically, giving him the benefit of the doubt as well. There's no excusing for what he did, just hope that he's not going to go Graham Linehan on us from now on.

Thanks for proving my point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, PaperFaces said:

Thanks for proving my point.

EVERYONE says stupid shit at some point. 

Ive seen many comedians make gay jokes and i can still laugh at it. It's just that: a joke. If there is no vile intent, if i assume the best in someone, and i really take the time to go beneath the surface, then i can recognize humour. 

I watched what he said: i dont believe he is transphobic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you missed the point completely by presenting this as "Poor little Chappelle vs The World". He's literally going to be fine. To him, this is merely a slap on the wrist, while you present this as, let's see, 

[QUOTE]

[...]completely cancelled[...]

[...]silenced[...]

Are people with different views, different understandings, different lives supposed to not have careers, friends and a public life?

[/QUOTE]

which is not happening, and is merely a strawman i.e. a complete misrepresentation of the situation, on top of the people who actually got fired by Netflix. I'm not saying that this can't be wielded against regular people, which is a completely separate and valid issue, but Chappelle? Give me a break. You cannot be silenced while simultaneously having a two hour special on the biggest platform on the planet. Think about it for a second, please. No one's gonna murder him for being Chappelle, but people definitely get murdered for being trans.

 

Also, the author of this thread also creates a strawman by bringing Madonna in this topic just to rile people up with fictional scenarios, and they simply wanted to air their support for transphobic actions proudly. The end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, PaperFaces said:

EVERYONE says stupid shit at some point. 

Ive seen many comedians make gay jokes and i can still laugh at it. It's just that: a joke. If there is no vile intent, if i assume the best in someone, and i really take the time to go beneath the surface, then i can recognize humour. 

I watched what he said: i dont believe he is transphobic.

This - we are sadly in bad times when it concerns comedy "people tell me to shut my mouth "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, New_Boy said:

"Family Guy" is just an awful show, which, again, has nothing to do with this. Can you write in proper sentences and in line with what's being argued, or just act like an idiot?

family guy makes jokes about everything including gays and its funny :) im not arguing about this topic but i will say that cancel culture sucks and i totally understand why madonna chose him and she does not need to justify it 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see a wider conversation about cancel culture though.

I see the trans community + allies critiquing a viewpoint.

The distraction technique of the alt-right is and always has been to cry 'cancel culture'.

Many of these influencer types are behaving like absolute melts, unable to engage in any kind of reasoned discourse. "Thin skin" being one such example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, hankypanky2021 said:

This - we are sadly in bad times when it concerns comedy "people tell me to shut my mouth "

Sorry to be replying to you again, but what he said wasn't even a joke. Please inform yourself. He said, quote, "I'm team TERF" and voiced support for homophobic black men. How is this funny or comedic in any way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, since I see that the benchmark for comedy is awfully low these days, please check out this show! It's called "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend", it's a hilarious way of dealing with mental illness and romantic clichés, and shows people of all ages, appearances, orientations living normal, vivid lives. Oh, and they've written over 150 original songs to feature in each episode, each one with a music video as well! Here's a brilliant example. You can find all four season on Netflix, so stream that instead of Chappelle.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Write here...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...