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Madame X, Dave Chappelle, ‘Transphobia’ & Cancel Culture


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PaperFaces

Making a joke about something does not necessarily reveal your true feelings about it. Sometimes we need to laugh at something in order to process what it all means. It is intellectually, morally and socially irresponsible to reduce someone to a thought they might have, a feeling they express or a statement they make.  We are more than just those things. And it is important to have all of these in order to discuss  and debate.  It is through discussion and debate that we find progress.

Roland Barthes

Chappelle is a transphobic asshole and so is anyone who supports and defends him. Now if you can't live with being called transphobic then don't be. As for Madonna she should have included Lil Nas X instead of Chappelle whom no one cares about outside of the US and his coming out as terf is not his first nasty comment about the lgbt community. So if Madonna gets in hot water for standing by this moron it will be deserved because it makes her look like a hypocrite. She benefited from the trans co

robder

Great question....and there are no shoulds. ...but this is a community that needs allies. Plus the exclusionary conversations around trans people (privileged people discussing what rights you should have in the next room etc) mirror the 90s era of homophobia almost exactly. DC shouldn't be cancelled - indeed, he hasn't and will probably never be cancelled. Neither have trans people got 'thin skin' as he puts it. The trans narrative is one of survival...you have to be pretty hardco

3 minutes ago, PlayPause said:

have nothing to do with a career built on bullying people.

Of course cancelling the guy will not end transphobia. Cancel culture only exist for those who believe in it, I don't.

I think you missed my point, which is not to judge people without listening properly to what they have to say. If you did watch the entirety of his show, you’d realise Chappelle is definitely not a bully. Quite the opposite in fact. 

Personally, I try not to judge people based on small nuggets of information, assumptions or from the opinions of others. I’d at least listen carefully to everything they have to say first, before drawing my conclusions. 

But of course, you’re entitled to your opinion as well. No disrespect intended.?

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18 minutes ago, tajybajyboo said:

I think you missed my point, which is not to judge people without listening properly to what they have to say. If you did watch the entirety of his show, you’d realise Chappelle is definitely not a bully. Quite the opposite in fact. 

Personally, I try not to judge people based on small nuggets of information, assumptions or from the opinions of others. I’d at least listen carefully to everything they have to say first, before drawing my conclusions. 

But of course, you’re entitled to your opinion as well. No disrespect intended.?

thanks

I have followed him for a long time and his famous Block Party. I know what I'm saying. 

No disrespect either, I don't need your lecture about multiple layers in everybody and giving people second chances. He'll get his eventually, not right now. He should keep quiet and his supporters keep a low profile.

I'm one inch from unsubscribing Netflix, don't make me do it right now. Feels like you're on a mission to reverse the backlash they deserve.

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20 minutes ago, PlayPause said:

thanks

I have followed him for a long time and his famous Block Party. I know what I'm saying. 

No disrespect either, I don't need your lecture about multiple layers in everybody and giving people second chances. He'll get his eventually, not right now. He should keep quiet and his supporters keep a low profile.

I'm one inch from unsubscribing Netflix, don't make me do it right now. Feels like you're on a mission to reverse the backlash they deserve.

Don’t do it! You’ll miss the concluding episodes of Grace & Frankie. ?

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8 hours ago, tajybajyboo said:

 

 

 

I do agree with her.

8 hours ago, PaperFaces said:

But thats EXACTLY why things like that need to be kept in the show. But again, i dont think he is transphobic. I think he is a much more empathetic and vulnerable human being that this is making him out to be.

Totally agree.

And I want to say that it’s called comedy. Every minority gets roasted and satired, why trans people should have a special treatment? Part of what he’s saying are true observations/critique, the other part is just satire.

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1 hour ago, Loru said:

And I want to say that it’s called comedy. Every minority gets roasted and satired, why trans people should have a special treatment? Part of what he’s saying are true observations/critique, the other part is just satire.

Yikes. What he said wasn’t a joke. It was degrading; disgusting. 

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16 minutes ago, deathproof said:

Yikes. What he said wasn’t a joke. It was degrading; disgusting. 

i just hope all the people angry over his comment do not watch that episode of family guy when quagmires dad gets a sex change - sick of cancel culture and people offended by everything 

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Anyway...
I've seen the entire special, and will be commenting only on it, without delving into Chappelle's previous statements. I'm hoping any trans/ally person will help me out if I'm missing bigger parts of the story.

First of all, you can clearly tell Dave Chappelle is an old school comedian, in the sense that his time is over. Comedy has evolved, and he has refused to do so. I found myself chuckling a couple of times during the hour, but not more than that. He's clearly an eloquent and extremely charming guy, with a lot of lived experience and solidarity with his people, as he should, since the Black community is still so clearly disenfranchised two centuries after slavery was "abolished". The thing that's painfully obvious can be summarized by the following meme.

Look, I don't think he thinks he's doing transphobic things. He's clearly described his experience with Daphne, the lovely trans comedian, who was his friend. Unfortunately, it all seemed disrespectful in the sense that he used her as a shield, or, dare I say it, the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" defense. Her death was, again, used as a weapon against the nasty trans, who drove her to kill herself, just for standing up for him. You don't get to say "I'm team TERF" and "Gender is a fact" and "Transitioning is just like blackface" and "Their pussies are just pretend", while in the same breath proclaiming "I'm not saying trans women aren't women" and supporting them using the bathrooms of their gender. The best interpretation could be that it's mixed messaging, and the worst is that it's pure transphobia, because those first four statements are indeed very transphobic, and mean you're pretty deeply familiar with the anti-trans movement and their ideology. I completely understand why some trans people took offence with it. It's not dog whistles, it's completely blatant. It's also definitely not comedic. 

The worst part is thinking that J.K. Rowling, DaBaby and Kevin Hart were being punched down on. It will literally never be true, because the fact they've reached the 1% of the 1% means they have more privilege than any other woman or black person that you know. Not to mention trans people, who are often forced into prostitution since nobody else wants to hire them. Can you imagine that happening to you? Can you empathize? 

As I said, the Daphne story is the ugly filpside of the times we live in and people having to vent their rage against their oppression somewhere, not even picking their targets properly. Regular people shouldn't have their livelihoods destroyed because of wrong statements. But putting her plight against the "poor Kevin Hart couldn't host the Oscars" and somehow making that feel all the same just felt crass, felt wrong, felt disrespectful. I just hope he keeps his promise and helps her daughter when she's older. 

So yeah, that was my two cents. My new friend @robder posted this very good video on trans people and comedy yesterday, and it nails the discussion so well. Especially since it's in line with Dave Chappelle said about Daphne too, that talking about herself and her own lived experience is where her true comedic talent shined through. So, in memory of Daphne, please watch this. And realize that, yes, Dave Chappelle might not be transphobic, but he definitely said very, very transphobic things.

 

 

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Watched the Blaire White video as well, and as usual, she always takes the stance of "I'm not like the other trans, please accept me". She will always default to what the majority of clueless and/or bigoted people think because that's where she gets her views from. She will never, ever say anything that goes against the status quo. Please go through her channel and tell me I'm wrong. She's so painfully insecure that each video screencap is her looking hot while positioning herself against the other person looking their worst. Ironically, no one would give two shits about her if she weren't "trans person against trans ideology", she would simply be a boring white bully of a woman. 

Also re-reading the thread, and it's embarrassing how some posters simply parrot learned phrases from Madonna and wield it in this thread without thought or proper context. I mean, I get it, you obviously don't speak English other than Madonna lyrics, we can hardly expect you to express complex thoughts. Madonna's freedom fighting also can't be conflated with this, since she never took a massive dump on the disenfranchised. And again, this has nothing to do with Madonna, and was obviously another misguided Guy Oseary move.

I also want @robder, @deathproof , @thiagosb  and @PlayPause to join me in a liberated commune. I just know you guys are sexy, on top of being smart, you're serving BDE! I'll also be reading "Pedagogy of the Oppressed", thanks for making me read on Paulo Freire!

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1 hour ago, New_Boy said:

Anyway...
I've seen the entire special, and will be commenting only on it, without delving into Chappelle's previous statements. I'm hoping any trans/ally person will help me out if I'm missing bigger parts of the story.

First of all, you can clearly tell Dave Chappelle is an old school comedian, in the sense that his time is over. Comedy has evolved, and he has refused to do so. I found myself chuckling a couple of times during the hour, but not more than that. He's clearly an eloquent and extremely charming guy, with a lot of lived experience and solidarity with his people, as he should, since the Black community is still so clearly disenfranchised two centuries after slavery was "abolished". The thing that's painfully obvious can be summarized by the following meme.

Look, I don't think he thinks he's doing transphobic things. He's clearly described his experience with Daphne, the lovely trans comedian, who was his friend. Unfortunately, it all seemed disrespectful in the sense that he used her as a shield, or, dare I say it, the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" defense. Her death was, again, used as a weapon against the nasty trans, who drove her to kill herself, just for standing up for him. You don't get to say "I'm team TERF" and "Gender is a fact" and "Transitioning is just like blackface" and "Their pussies are just pretend", while in the same breath proclaiming "I'm not saying trans women aren't women" and supporting them using the bathrooms of their gender. The best interpretation could be that it's mixed messaging, and the worst is that it's pure transphobia, because those first four statements are indeed very transphobic, and mean you're pretty deeply familiar with the anti-trans movement and their ideology. I completely understand why some trans people took offence with it. It's not dog whistles, it's completely blatant. It's also definitely not comedic. 

The worst part is thinking that J.K. Rowling, DaBaby and Kevin Hart were being punched down on. It will literally never be true, because the fact they've reached the 1% of the 1% means they have more privilege than any other woman or black person that you know. Not to mention trans people, who are often forced into prostitution since nobody else wants to hire them. Can you imagine that happening to you? Can you empathize? 

As I said, the Daphne story is the ugly filpside of the times we live in and people having to vent their rage against their oppression somewhere, not even picking their targets properly. Regular people shouldn't have their livelihoods destroyed because of wrong statements. But putting her plight against the "poor Kevin Hart couldn't host the Oscars" and somehow making that feel all the same just felt crass, felt wrong, felt disrespectful. I just hope he keeps his promise and helps her daughter when she's older. 

So yeah, that was my two cents. My new friend @robder posted this very good video on trans people and comedy yesterday, and it nails the discussion so well. Especially since it's in line with Dave Chappelle said about Daphne too, that talking about herself and her own lived experience is where her true comedic talent shined through. So, in memory of Daphne, please watch this. And realize that, yes, Dave Chappelle might not be transphobic, but he definitely said very, very transphobic things.

 

 

Hey New_Boy. I just caught up with all the comments overnight and wanted to say thank you for watching the Closer special. There were at least 3 people on the thread who had some very strong things to say about Chappelle who hadn’t watched it. Personally, I don’t think it’s fair to criticise someone without listening to what they’ve said first, in it’s entirety, within its original context. I appreciate you took the time to watch it and form a more nuanced opinion, and (*spoiler alert*), in part, I think we might even agree! 

I definitely felt there were many things Chappelle said during the show that were offensive (especially that repeated space Jews joke?!), but that doesn’t necessarily make him bigoted/racist/transphobic/misogynistic.

I agree it’s also an older style of comedy. Perhaps where we disagree is my appreciation of satire and his provocative, uncomfortable humour to draw attention to serious issues. I understand that might not be appreciated by a younger, more sensitive audience. For full disclosure, I’m 40, and I laughed quite a few times. Does that make me old?! ? I’m guessing you’re probably younger than me, but even if it’s a dated style of comedy, older people deserve to laugh to. Regardless of how it’s delivered, it’s still drawing attention to these issues and stimulating conversation and debate. People don’t always agree, but shutting down the conversation - cancelling people - inhibits any further opportunity for understanding, and I think we agree about that.

I’ve watched many of Blaire White’s videos and interviews and I think she’s brilliant. I’m less interested in the trans-related topics and more about her politics. Again, for full disclosure I’m not American. I live in the UK, but I’m definitely not a fan of progressive social liberalism and woke ideology. I’d describe myself as a classical liberal, slightly centre-right, especially when it comes to fiscal economics, and more closely aligned with Dave Rubin if you’ve ever watched any of his videos.

I disagree with you regarding the Guy Oseary comment. I’ve noticed a lot of fans blaming Oseary for every perceived mid-step in Madonna’s career, as if she’s completely oblivious and incapable of making these decisions on her own. She’s a big girl. She was clearly involved with the edit and having sorted through this discussion, I believe she included Chappelle because his speech (and career) clearly chimes with the ‘artist’s are here to disturb the peace’ mantra of the show. That doesn’t necessarily mean she agrees with everything he says though, but she clearly recognises and supports an artist’s right to freedom of speech. I could be wrong, it’s just my opinion, but I believe that’s why she included him in the show.

I suppose the long and short of it, is that we don’t all think the same. We’re not always going to agree, but that doesn’t mean we can’t be friendly, kind and engaged with one another. This thread has revealed a range of opinions, which we’re all entitled to, and I’m glad I engaged with you in this discussion. I hope you are too.

For everything we may disagree upon, I hope you at least considered my posts polite and respectful. I do take offence at being told I ‘should be ashamed’ and ‘to go fuck myself’. You’re clearly very passionate about these issues, and I respect that, but it’s counterproductive to confuse passion with anger. I think you’ll always be more persuasive if you don’t swear and shame others. To quote Madonna, quoting W.H. Auden at the Women’s Rights March, “we must love one another or die”. 

Despite our differences, I genuinely hope there is far more that can unite us, namely our passion for Madonna! 

Which, funnily enough, brings me full circle back to Dave Chappelle and a final quote from Daphne:

T“I don’t need you to understand me, just believe I’m having a human experience”.

Peace and good day to you. ?

x

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On 10/21/2021 at 1:14 AM, New_Boy said:

Watched the Blaire White video as well, and as usual, she always takes the stance of "I'm not like the other trans, please accept me". She will always default to what the majority of clueless and/or bigoted people think because that's where she gets her views from. She will never, ever say anything that goes against the status quo. Please go through her channel and tell me I'm wrong. She's so painfully insecure that each video screencap is her looking hot while positioning herself against the other person looking their worst. Ironically, no one would give two shits about her if she weren't "trans person against trans ideology", she would simply be a boring white bully of a woman. 

 

It's weird that you say all you have to say about this special while attacking a very specific trans person in the same breath. 

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Thank you for noticing! It's called nuance. I'm not criticising her for being trans, which is perfectly valid and she deserves nothing bad happening to her because of that. You are using her minority status as a shield from criticism, which is disingenuous, and dare we say it, knowingly rude. Please stop trying to do that. What, are we not suppossed to criticise Milo Yiannopoulos just because he's gay? He's also supported Trump and p*dophilia, and collaborated with N*zis, so I guess it's just homophobic pointing that out.

Funny that all of you only hyperfocus on Blaire, when ContraPoints, Kat Blaque, Mia Mulder, Abigail Thorn, NikkiTutorials and many other trans women actually provide you with entertaining and educational content, instead of validating your pre-existing bigotry. Cheers!

 

@charThank you for sharing your stance, you're brave and strong.

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Nothing more pathetic than adults wasting time on social media taking children's temper tantrums seriously.

Talk about privilege. Spending all day staring at an expensive device doing nothing productive. Tragic.

The culture is diseased.

All people everywhere should be offended and made fun of. The game of life is a joke and we all die in the end. Why so serious?

In the immortal words of M: "Get a sense of humor ok? Lighten up!" "None of this is real..."

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Well, as far as I can tell, you're here too, so what's your excuse? And again with parrotting Madonna catchphrases, I'm begging you to read and listen to something else too, at least by accident.

 

Some Madonna fans are surprisingly among the blindest, most stubborn and closed-minded people I've ever interacted with. 

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I am pretty sure a person can have multiple reasons for not feeling that a trans man is a man, or a trans woman is a woman that don’t inherently start or end with any sort of phobia. Because a person doesn’t personally agree with how a person elects to identify, doesn’t immediately suggest fear or loathing as the cause. As a gay male bottom, I have strong preferences on the men I would have dated before I was married, but that’s not out of fear, it’s out of utility. I personally feel like ascribing intent is a dangerous path, and robs everyone’s right to chose their own truth. 

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18 hours ago, konfideinmenow said:

I am pretty sure a person can have multiple reasons for not feeling that a trans man is a man, or a trans woman is a woman that don’t inherently start or end with any sort of phobia. Because a person doesn’t personally agree with how a person elects to identify, doesn’t immediately suggest fear or loathing as the cause. 

Yeah, because someone calling you by a man's name when you look and present as a woman is a completely normal and respectful reaction. It's not a matter of agreement, just human decency. If they can disrespect the way someone identifies, I will surely not accept them identifying as a non-transphobe.

Also, some of you never had insults shouted at you and it shows. 

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On 10/20/2021 at 10:36 PM, tajybajyboo said:

I think you missed my point, which is not to judge people without listening properly to what they have to say. If you did watch the entirety of his show, you’d realise Chappelle is definitely not a bully. Quite the opposite in fact. 

Personally, I try not to judge people based on small nuggets of information, assumptions or from the opinions of others. I’d at least listen carefully to everything they have to say first, before drawing my conclusions. 

But of course, you’re entitled to your opinion as well. No disrespect intended.?

This

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On 10/23/2021 at 9:07 PM, New_Boy said:

Well, as far as I can tell, you're here too, so what's your excuse? And again with parrotting Madonna catchphrases, I'm begging you to read and listen to something else too, at least by accident.

 

Some Madonna fans are surprisingly among the blindest, most stubborn and closed-minded people I've ever interacted with. 

You must be about 15 years old.

When you go and actually live life and travel and see what REAL problems look like, your perspective will change. Get out of your culture and country to see how other people live and think. Burst the bubble of self-indulgent narcissism that is destroying young minds and culture.

As for "blindest, most stubborn and close-minded" : have you ever heard of the concept of PROJECTION?

Look it up *sips tea*

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On 10/22/2021 at 11:01 PM, New_Boy said:

Thank you for noticing! It's called nuance. I'm not criticising her for being trans, which is perfectly valid and she deserves nothing bad happening to her because of that. You are using her minority status as a shield from criticism, which is disingenuous, and dare we say it, knowingly rude. Please stop trying to do that. What, are we not suppossed to criticise Milo Yiannopoulos just because he's gay? He's also supported Trump and p*dophilia, and collaborated with N*zis, so I guess it's just homophobic pointing that out.

Funny that all of you only hyperfocus on Blaire, when ContraPoints, Kat Blaque, Mia Mulder, Abigail Thorn, NikkiTutorials and many other trans women actually provide you with entertaining and educational content, instead of validating your pre-existing bigotry. Cheers!

 

@charThank you for sharing your stance, you're brave and strong.

You're basically saying she's not the right kind of trans.  I don't even know Blaire White I just happened to watch the video because it was posted here. And in it she describes how Dave's trans friend was bullied online to the extent she killed herself. And your response to that is pretty horrible. We don't have to like everything everybody says, and life would be boring if we did, but not liking what someone says doesn't make them some intrinsically bad person. 

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