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If Madonna never left Warner...


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6 minutes ago, Prince of Darkness said:

Madonna had lost a bunch of her popularity in the states since as far back as American Life. In order for the hits to keep coming, she needed to stay relevant in Europe. Thats the reason Warner focused so hard on that particular market.

They were super successful with European promo well before American Life came out. Warner had a HUGE, out of this world campaign for Ray of Light in Europe, and even before Madonna came somewhere to do the promo, she was kept in the media for weeks ahead of the event. She did the highest rated talk shows and media events (like Sanremo in Italy). Then they followed that same pattern for Music, American Life and Confessions.

Each local Warner label had a bunch of their own local artist that they were promoting and had media connections all over. Then for the Madonna album they would pick the best of the best and literally make everything about her. Of course, everyone wanted to have her on their show, but each local Warner team knew just what to do and how to promote the album from the moment it was announced, all the way to the last single. The key to their success was that each local Warner label promoted Madonna as their own biggest project.

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2 hours ago, androiduser said:

They were super successful with European promo well before American Life came out. Warner had a HUGE, out of this world campaign for Ray of Light in Europe, and even before Madonna came somewhere to do the promo, she was kept in the media for weeks ahead of the event. She did the highest rated talk shows and media events (like Sanremo in Italy). Then they followed that same pattern for Music, American Life and Confessions.

Each local Warner label had a bunch of their own local artist that they were promoting and had media connections all over. Then for the Madonna album they would pick the best of the best and literally make everything about her. Of course, everyone wanted to have her on their show, but each local Warner team knew just what to do and how to promote the album from the moment it was announced, all the way to the last single. The key to their success was that each local Warner label promoted Madonna as their own biggest project.

Nothing from Ray of Light even hit number 1 in the US. It seems her popularity had been declining even as early as Erotica over there. So it makes sense Warner would go hard on the European market.

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2 hours ago, Prince of Darkness said:

Nothing from Ray of Light even hit number 1 in the US. It seems her popularity there had been declining even as early as Erotica over there. So it makes sense Warner would go hard on the European market.

Frozen hit #2 and the album peaked at #2 as well, they were both a massive success... either way, Warner handled Europe like a pro

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3 hours ago, Prince of Darkness said:

Nothing from Ray of Light even hit number 1 in the US. It seems her popularity had been declining even as early as Erotica over there. So it makes sense Warner would go hard on the European market.

Frozen was #2 and Music, the song, was a massive success in the US though. I'm sure they 'gave up' after American Life was released during a time of heavy political turmoil. If it hadn't been for US radio stations boycotting her music, Hung up would've likely gone top 3 at least. It still managed to go #7 based on sales. Just look at all the wonders radio did for Mariah Carey back then.

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1 hour ago, RayofPrayers said:

Frozen was #2 and Music, the song, was a massive success in the US though. I'm sure they 'gave up' after American Life was released during a time of heavy political turmoil. If it hadn't been for US radio stations boycotting her music, Hung up would've likely gone top 3 at least. It still managed to go #7 based on sales. Just look at all the wonders radio did for Mariah Carey back then.

The fact that Frozen and Hung Up did not reach number 1 in the US when they were worldwide hits all over the place is so irritating. Fuck America and its radio boycotting.

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I think leaving Warners was the biggest mistake of her career in terms of success as a recording artist and protection of her legacy.

Agree with what so many have said already - that Hard Candy would have probably got more promotion effort from Warners with more singes, better videos for Give It 2 Me and Miles Away and better remixes. But still the promo was a masterclass next to how Interscope then handled/did not handle the  albums they released.  Poor single choices, poor promotion, poor choice of collaborators, poor remixes and lack of quality control on the finished album before it is released to  get the material well polished and make the most of the material she came up with.  I don't think Warners would have allowed the last 3 albums to be released without further work on the material. Also I think the retirement of Liz Rosenberg as her long time PR agent during this period did not help

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10 hours ago, Prayer said:

I'm sure they made them easier being under the same umbrella but pushed them? Why it's so hard to believe that Madonna works with people she likes. 

Because Madonna never did this kind of stuff in her glory days when she was topping the charts every year. Her liking the artists she chooses to work with is totally irrelevant when talking about her reasoning behind doing it. 4 Minutes would not have been as big a hit without Timberlake. Dont try and fool yourself that the reason Madonna has been doing collaborations ever since she started losing relevance in the charts is because she just loves all those artists and is desperate to work with them.

AKMm0EP.gif

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Frozen was masive right and so ROL was but the titanic massive succes, even greater than Madonna´s at that time, that´s why ROL never topped in the US market, but is legendary nevertheless, more than other songs of hers than went to number 1. Since 1992 Madonna made it clear she was not doing records for the us market target, as she always had that european sensibilty and was always masive in Europe. In 2008 she tried to change that path, with relative success, but the album did not feel as organic as others of hers..

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9 hours ago, Prayer said:

I'm sure they made them easier being under the same umbrella but pushed them? Why it's so hard to believe that Madonna works with people she likes?

Madonna discovered Natalia Kills when her dancers played "Controversy" during rehearsals. No wonder she liked her style and her, she even invited Natalia to her birthday party in 2014. Martin Kierszenbaum probably jump into the project himself or whatever, but he's a musician too.

About the Warner thing... promotion would have been handled differently, that's for sure. And I don't think we would have had 18-track albums. The first single of each album would have been an event. Imagine a 1st single with Warner with all the Super Bowl 2012 hype and promo. BUT we will never know.

Also, things were not always perfect with Warner, remember she had a lot of issues with them during the years, even legal issues with Maverick and money. And she was 51 when she left. Let's not pretend like it was going to last forever, anyway, specially in the 10s, when there was a HUGE shift in popular culture. Everything changed and she would have been affected anyway.

Marina diamond revealed how she was approched by Interscope to write for Madonna around the same time. They did not do it to Madonna only, Gaga is exactly in the same position with in house collabs. 

By 2010 all my friends who worjed at Warner/WEA were laid off. Same thing happened at Virgin and other record companies. P2P took a toll on record companies and they were not willing to put money in promo for records that were not making them money back. The Whole industry was changing and it kept on changing, today it is not what it was then and tomorrow will be different too. 

If Madonna had stayed at Warner the biggest change woud have been, maybe, earlier reissues of her back catalogue. 

And we can't blame everything on Interscope, pretty bad choices were made by Madonna herself. Even Orbit said in a recent interview that the school of writing he was involved in at the time wasn't a great idea. But people at the time were trying to find new venues and ventures as everything was changing in the music industry

 

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3 hours ago, Prince of Darkness said:

Dont try and fool yourself that the reason Madonna has been doing collaborations ever since she started losing relevance in the charts is because she just loves all those artists and is desperate to work with them.

AKMm0EP.gif

Wasn't saying or thinking that... at all. Obviously there's gonna be a commercial intention behind, too. She's a pop artist. The collaborations began to be more frequent as she started to lose her commercial power, that's a fact. But hey, it wasn't just her, it was the way the industry was going anyway. Bands became less and less popular, cause they costed the labels more money, and individual artists with features were they new norm - it still is today.

When she worked with Britney, Justin, whatever, obviously she knows what she's doing and expects attention and hopefully a hit. Is that wrong? Not at all. What I was saying is she seems to work only with people she likes or finds interesting - commercial reasons aside. In 2010-2011 the easiest thing would have been working with David Guetta in "MDNA", he was on top of the world in Dance music at the time. And she said no, gave the stupid sign excuse, and went with Martin Solveig instead. She calls the shots.

Everytime she's talked about any of her features from "MDNA" to "Madame X" is never like "yeah, it was very cool", no, she gives a full answer about that person, what she likes about her/him and why the feat. is there. Also, I think she really learnt her lesson with all the Drake fiasco.

What's really delusional is thinking that Madonna, the control freak, is gonna put her name next to a person that doesn't fit her story, her movie, her narrative in her mind. She's the main character in the movie. Never forget that.

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10 minutes ago, Prayer said:

 

What's really delusional is thinking that Madonna, the control freak, is gonna put her name next to a person that doesn't fit her story, her movie, her narrative in her mind. She's the main character in the movie. Never forget that.

Thats precisely what worries me about this biopic, Madonna is going to have control over everything and its very rare to find a person who can view their lives without being jaded. Whoever she finds is going to be creatively stifled and micromanaged which will ruin a shot at making a character her own. Did you see how utterly insufferable Madonna is to work with based on that livestream with her co-writer on the script. From what I have seen, the script appears to be a bunch of drivel about her being a survivor beat down by the evil world for disturbing the peace. Madame X is alive and well it appears.

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1 minute ago, Prince of Darkness said:

Thats precisely what worries me about this biopic, Madonna is going to have control over everything and its very rare to find a person who can view their lives without being jaded. From what I have seen, the script appears to be a bunch of drivel about her being a survivor beat down by the evil world for disturbing the peace. Madame X is alive and well it appears.

The biopic is going to be the biggest ego trip in history, no doubt about it! :lol:

But let's hope it will be a great one :cute:

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I think Warner would have extended her chart presence longer than Interscope did but that's about it. I remember a lot of fans were angry with certain choices/decisions they had made for her album campaigns and were hoping the new deal she signed would be an improvement. Ultimately it wasn't. 

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9 hours ago, BringUrLUV said:

The past 10 years still would have been messy & it would have been blamed on her never leaving Warner.

YESS

M left Warner for many reasons, and the business impact was more important at that time. We don't know how different her music would have been, artistic decisions were always hers anyway.

The real point in this question is what Warner will bring back after the sidestep years musically speaking and market it as a whole oeuvre.

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23 hours ago, RayofPrayers said:

Frozen was #2 and Music, the song, was a massive success in the US though. I'm sure they 'gave up' after American Life was released during a time of heavy political turmoil. If it hadn't been for US radio stations boycotting her music, Hung up would've likely gone top 3 at least. It still managed to go #7 based on sales. Just look at all the wonders radio did for Mariah Carey back then.

Was AL the reason why US radio boycotted her music? I’ve read that the boycott happened between Hung Up and Sorry and that’s why Sorry didn’t have any impact in the US. But I can’t think of anything she could’ve done in 2005 that would’ve caused the boycott… 2003 though… that makes sense 

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3 hours ago, Sillynate said:

Was AL the reason why US radio boycotted her music? I’ve read that the boycott happened between Hung Up and Sorry and that’s why Sorry didn’t have any impact in the US. But I can’t think of anything she could’ve done in 2005 that would’ve caused the boycott… 2003 though… that makes sense 

"American Life" changed everything for her in the US BUT she would have had a hard time anyway because of her age. Everything changed with the teen pop explosion of the late 90s (remember she was put all the time next to Britney and Christina during the "Music" era, I mean... she played the game perfectly with the t-shirts and her answers in interviews, though) and 11/9 made everything and everyone go super safe with everything.

Looking back, it's amazing she went that way with "American Life" in that moment: a true artist.

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12 hours ago, Sillynate said:

Was AL the reason why US radio boycotted her music? I’ve read that the boycott happened between Hung Up and Sorry and that’s why Sorry didn’t have any impact in the US. But I can’t think of anything she could’ve done in 2005 that would’ve caused the boycott… 2003 though… that makes sense 

Yes it was AL because after AL (specifically that original video), none of the other singles from the album managed to chart. Even Me Against the Music would've been a bigger hit if Britney wasn't at the tail end of her radio blacklist and Madonna wasn't at the beginning of her's. At least with Confessions she was able to chart two singles but all four could've impacted the Hot 100 if Madonna's relationship with US radio was better. 

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Madonna has never lost "relevance".  People are confusing "trending" or "charting" with relevance.   So many current and major artists love Madonna and openly embrace her contribution to their craft.  Look at the charts... they are a pathetic mess.  We have a pay to play situation and most trending artists are indistinguishable from one another.  This standard and mindset of "irrelevance" would apply to a all legends.  Are the Beatles irrelevant?  Is Diana Ross irrelevant?  Are the Rolling Stones irrelevant?  Is Prince, Tupac or Nirvana irrelevant?  Is Whitney irrelevant?  Apparently, Beyonce, Gaga and Britney are all irrelevant too as the "hits" are not there.  So, George Michael, the Cure and Sting are irrelevant too?  Michael and Janet Jackson.... um.... I guess irrelevant too.  Good lord.  We cannot measure an artist's relevance in a moment in time.   Madonna offered tremendous contributions for decades and still shapes the industry through thoses contributions... but now she is "irrelevant" because of fucking made up "trending and charting" systems?   Wow!   

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On 1/22/2022 at 5:16 PM, Prince of Darkness said:

Nothing from Ray of Light even hit number 1 in the US. It seems her popularity had been declining even as early as Erotica over there. So it makes sense Warner would go hard on the European market.

From a fans POV, warner made some strange mistakes with the ROL rollout.

Frozen and the Album both got stuck behind Titanic.

The ROL single was rolled out really badly - so the song landed on radio maybe in April, I cant remember, and then she did also this cool promo, like Oprah and stuff, but you couldnt buy the single till I think late July. Back then billboard factored in radio (60%) and sales (40%) and I believe ROL debuted at #5 without a physical single - by the time physical single came out, they lost that 1, 2 punch from both radio and sales at same time to get an easy #1.....OR....maybe they delayed the single release on purpose to get more album sales.  I really dont know but when the single finally physically came out, it was if not mistaken her 2nd discounted single ever up to that point. I bought 20 copies of the physical cassette single for 99 cents.

Anyway thats the ROL mistake.

They did this very same delayed release with Nothing Really Matters as well - the physical single took months to be released after the premier and her grammy performance.

A

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8 minutes ago, AModSquad said:

From a fans POV, warner made some strange mistakes with the ROL rollout.

Frozen and the Album both got stuck behind Titanic.

The ROL single was rolled out really badly - so the song landed on radio maybe in April, I cant remember, and then she did also this cool promo, like Oprah and stuff, but you couldnt buy the single till I think late July. Back then billboard factored in radio (60%) and sales (40%) and I believe ROL debuted at #5 without a physical single - by the time physical single came out, they lost that 1, 2 punch from both radio and sales at same time to get an easy #1.....OR....maybe they delayed the single release on purpose to get more album sales.  I really dont know but when the single finally physically came out, it was if not mistaken her 2nd discounted single ever up to that point. I bought 20 copies of the physical cassette single for 99 cents.

Anyway thats the ROL mistake.

They did this very same delayed release with Nothing Really Matters as well - the physical single took months to be released after the premier and her grammy performance.

A

We were discussing this is another topic but it looks like Warner US were always pushing for full album sales instead of singles success. That was always the strategy.

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