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The rappers in the music of Madonna.


chaosmen1984mk
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I always wished she had worked with Lil' Kim. But Kim's prime was during M's Evita /ROL/Music eras so it never lined up. This was also when she thought sampling was lazy and was going for a more Euro sound.

I have this weird theory that if she released Hard Candy/MDNA/Rebel Heart after Music, they would have done very well in the US. 

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31 minutes ago, Pootz333 said:

I always wished she had worked with Lil' Kim. But Kim's prime was during M's Evita /ROL/Music eras so it never lined up. This was also when she thought sampling was lazy and was going for a more Euro sound.

I have this weird theory that if she released Hard Candy/MDNA/Rebel Heart after Music, they would have done very well in the US. 

hardcandy was released too late after the whole timbaland era had died down and it sounded dated and done before ..sadly :( 

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My prefered Madonna music would be ROL, You´ll see, Like a prayer, those acoustic mirwais songs on American Life, some great disco songs as Dress you up or Into the groove...none of those songs feautured a rapper ever. Said that, I love that colaboration in I´d rather be your lover, I think it´s with a woman, but it´s very very sexy...

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This thread reeks of racism. It's unbelievable to me how such a progressive artist like Madonna attracts prejudiced fans. Yes, Hip-hop is an art form, as valid as any other artistic expression. You don't like Madonna's recent offerings? That's fine. But let's not pretend her collaborations with black artists are a recent occurrence. Madonna has always been influenced by black culture and she has a genuine appreciation for diverse musical genres.

Funny how you mention "Like A Virgin" as an example of a pure pop song - did you know that song was produced by a Black man? Same with "Material Girl", "Express Yourself", "Borderline", "Lucky Star", "True Blue", "Secret", "Take A Bow", to name a few classics. Do you know about the origin of "Vogue" in the Harlem ballroom scene? The KKK burning crosses on the "Like A Prayer" music video? Have you read about the black history of disco music and rock & roll?. Madonna isn't Kylie Minogue, she was raised in the suburbs of Detroit for goodness' sake.

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The one song that I feel has an unnecessary rap segment, it’s Nas’ contribution on VVV, which is probably the most heavy handed and self indulgent “featuring” raps on any of her songs. I feel like the entire song is hijacked by Nas. I’m a Kelis fan, so it’s hard to hear him drag their drama into a Madonna song about her own perseverance and survival. But that’s just me. 

the other features add something to the songs, particularly the masterpiece that is the “Waiting” remix feat Everlast on the Rain maxi single… or Meshell On IRBYL on bedtime stories..,or Nicki Minaj in IDGAF and BIM. 

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2 hours ago, Pootz333 said:

I always wished she had worked with Lil' Kim. But Kim's prime was during M's Evita /ROL/Music eras so it never lined up. This was also when she thought sampling was lazy and was going for a more Euro sound.

I have this weird theory that if she released Hard Candy/MDNA/Rebel Heart after Music, they would have done very well in the US. 

I would have loved a Queen B feature! That would have been amazing!

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This thread is full of the usual users accusing everyone of racism because some people don't seem to like Madonna and her Rap direction. Disliking Rap or disliking some of the Rap that Madonna has featured on her albums has nothing to do with being racist against anyone black. Madonna did not start out or build her fanbase off of being Kanye West, The racism card is usually just an excuse to try and silence criticism about many of her more recent projects from butthurt fans who cry whenever anyone dares criticize Madonna and her series of bad collaborations. The collaborations are bad because they are bad, not because of the artists ethnicity. Atleast Madame X gave us the excellent Crave video, something decent for a change. I am not a fan of Mongolian Throat Singing, that does not mean I am racist against Native Mongolians. More people in this forum should start thinking with their heads and not get over emotional about everything.

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I’m kind of new to posting opinions in the forum and I can see it can get heated sometimes.  Yikes!!! :lol:

I don’t see anything wrong someone disagreeing with Madonna and TRUST ME,  I love when people stick up for her, because they are far and few between nowadays.

AND. I would never talk shit about M in front of the average person. I 100% have her back.  

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Well, I don't understand what the black race has to do with the central theme of the post, which is about rap as the worst musical genre that Madonna could have chosen for her collaborations, having other higher quality musical genres such as jazz, rock or electronica that are valued worldwide. As far as I know rap is not exclusive to black people, Eminem and Iggy Azaleia are some examples. In addition I also mentioned Maluma whose musical genre is not rap but reggaeton but they are very similar in that the 2 have ridiculous and stupid lyrics and messages that personally make me ashamed to listen to them at high volume.

For example, the collaboration that Madonna did with Babyface or Prince has no point of comparison with that of Nicky Minaj or Kayne West, the first represent quality and the others something crude that lowers the quality of the song with their silly and empty lyrics.

 

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9 hours ago, chaosmen1984mk said:

Well, I don't understand what the black race has to do with the central theme of the post, which is about rap as the worst musical genre that Madonna could have chosen for her collaborations, having other higher quality musical genres such as jazz, rock or electronica that are valued worldwide. As far as I know rap is not exclusive to black people, Eminem and Iggy Azaleia are some examples. In addition I also mentioned Maluma whose musical genre is not rap but reggaeton but they are very similar in that the 2 have ridiculous and stupid lyrics and messages that personally make me ashamed to listen to them at high volume.

For example, the collaboration that Madonna did with Babyface or Prince has no point of comparison with that of Nicky Minaj or Kayne West, the first represent quality and the others something crude that lowers the quality of the song with their silly and empty lyrics.

 

Though I understand this is your opinion… can you explain how rap is the worst genre. All genres of music have qualities and characteristics that are of value to culture or society one way or another. Do I find country less than appealing? Absolutely. But do I tune Music out as an album because the borrowed elements of it visually and sonically? No. M used it for her art and I can’t argue it didn’t come through wonderfully. Are all features good? That’s subjective. Some are excellent and some I could go without but ultimately M found something wonderful and creative in their contribution. As a race issue? All her features that are explicitly rap are black artists. That is where you will run into this looking like a personal issue of race. If you cannot find something good in a particular type of music, perhaps that is cause for you to reflect. I don’t care for modern country but I can find some wonderful country songs here and there and especially when I look at some older country artists. 

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13 hours ago, chaosmen1984mk said:

Well, I don't understand what the black race has to do with the central theme of the post, which is about rap as the worst musical genre that Madonna could have chosen for her collaborations, having other higher quality musical genres such as jazz, rock or electronica that are valued worldwide. As far as I know rap is not exclusive to black people, Eminem and Iggy Azaleia are some examples. In addition I also mentioned Maluma whose musical genre is not rap but reggaeton but they are very similar in that the 2 have ridiculous and stupid lyrics and messages that personally make me ashamed to listen to them at high volume.

For example, the collaboration that Madonna did with Babyface or Prince has no point of comparison with that of Nicky Minaj or Kayne West, the first represent quality and the others something crude that lowers the quality of the song with their silly and empty lyrics.

 

 

23 hours ago, Prince of Darkness said:

This thread is full of the usual users accusing everyone of racism because some people don't seem to like Madonna and her Rap direction. Disliking Rap or disliking some of the Rap that Madonna has featured on her albums has nothing to do with being racist against anyone black. Madonna did not start out or build her fanbase off of being Kanye West, The racism card is usually just an excuse to try and silence criticism about many of her more recent projects from butthurt fans who cry whenever anyone dares criticize Madonna and her series of bad collaborations. The collaborations are bad because they are bad, not because of the artists ethnicity. Atleast Madame X gave us the excellent Crave video, something decent for a change. I am not a fan of Mongolian Throat Singing, that does not mean I am racist against Native Mongolians. More people in this forum should start thinking with their heads and not get over emotional about everything.

Just stop. 

Disliking Rap or disliking some of the Rap...

Don't dilute the original post. He said "And it is that rap is a genre that I don't like at all" and then goes on to imply that rappers are not artists by putting the word artists in quotation marks. Racism doesn't have to be blatantly  obvious. It can be an unconscious LEARNED opinion on a subject that is mindlessly repeated. Kind of like you do every time someone says the word racism. Maybe he's not intentionally being racist, but his ideas come from it and therefor it is. 

Madonna did not start out or build her fanbase off of being Kanye West

What does that even mean?

The racism card is usually just an excuse to try and silence criticism

No. It's actual racism whether you are aware of it or not. You obviously didn't watch the video because it's pretty clear cut. But you probably think you've got it all figured out and can't handle a challenge to your warped worldview. Calling out racism isn't to shun people or make them feel bad, it's to identify learned behaviors that may seem harmless that are actually quite damaging. 

 I am not a fan of Mongolian Throat Singing, that does not mean I am racist against Native Mongolians.

Being a fan of something is different than saying it is not worthy to be compared to another type of music. Would you run around saying that Mongolian throat singing is crude? If Madonna included it in a song, would it degrade the value of the song? That it's ridiculous and stupid? You have to wonder where these feelings come from about a whole genre of music that is in and of itself, quite varied and extremely successful. Ever wonder why people still attach Aids to gay people? Does it only affect gay people? No. It's an ignorant learned idea that is passed around to this day. and there are people mindlessly repeating it while the disease affects any and everyone who has sex, which is most people. 

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Is it wrong for me to suggest that a lot of gays do not like rap music and this makes it even more funny that madonna has that integrity that she will do it anyway no matter what it costs and if her fans cry over it ...i actually think her doing work with rap artists has cost her a lot of fans 

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10 minutes ago, beautifulkiller said:

Is it wrong for me to suggest that a lot of gays do not like rap music and this makes it even more funny that madonna has that integrity that she will do it anyway no matter what it costs and if her fans cry over it ...i actually think her doing work with rap artists has cost her a lot of fans 

Any move she makes will cost her fans. It’s literally called a skip button. As far as she is concerned, M is probably grateful her actions have driven certain fans away that are clearly not as artistically or socially inclusive/open minded. 

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3 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

 

Just stop. 

Disliking Rap or disliking some of the Rap...

Don't dilute the original post. He said "And it is that rap is a genre that I don't like at all" and then goes on to imply that rappers are not artists by putting the word artists in quotation marks. Racism doesn't have to be blatantly  obvious. It can be an unconscious LEARNED opinion on a subject that is mindlessly repeated. Kind of like you do every time someone says the word racism. Maybe he's not intentionally being racist, but his ideas come from it and therefor it is. 

Madonna did not start out or build her fanbase off of being Kanye West

What does that even mean?

The racism card is usually just an excuse to try and silence criticism

No. It's actual racism whether you are aware of it or not. You obviously didn't watch the video because it's pretty clear cut. But you probably think you've got it all figured out and can't handle a challenge to your warped worldview. Calling out racism isn't to shun people or make them feel bad, it's to identify learned behaviors that may seem harmless that are actually quite damaging. 

 I am not a fan of Mongolian Throat Singing, that does not mean I am racist against Native Mongolians.

Being a fan of something is different than saying it is not worthy to be compared to another type of music. Would you run around saying that Mongolian throat singing is crude? If Madonna included it in a song, would it degrade the value of the song? That it's ridiculous and stupid? You have to wonder where these feelings come from about a whole genre of music that is in and of itself, quite varied and extremely successful. Ever wonder why people still attach Aids to gay people? Does it only affect gay people? No. It's an ignorant learned idea that is passed around to this day. and there are people mindlessly repeating it while the disease affects any and everyone who has sex, which is most people. 

Why are you imposing his opinions about Rap Music onto me? I was just saying that disliking a certain genre of music does not automatically equal racism. I never mentioned one thing about the user that you were calling out. Stop acting so pressed all the time please. Also, stop going off on rants because you watched one Youtube video and are now convinced its holy scripture. I don't have time for individuals who refuse to properly read a comment. For a moderator you sure are jumpy. Stop coming after me with your passive aggressive behavior because you are still salty about a comment I made about one of Janet Jackson's live performances that hurt your feelings. Go listen to some Mozart, his music is known to have a calming quality.

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59 minutes ago, Prince of Darkness said:

Why are you imposing his opinions about Rap Music onto me? I was just saying that disliking a certain genre of music does not automatically equal racism. I never mentioned one thing about the user that you were calling out. Stop acting so pressed all the time please. Also, stop going off on rants because you watched one Youtube video and are now convinced its holy scripture. I don't have time for individuals who refuse to properly read a comment. For a moderator you sure are jumpy. Stop coming after me with your passive aggressive nutcase because you are still salty about a comment I made about one of Janet Jackson's live performances that hurt your feelings. Go listen to some Mozart, his music is known to have a calming quality.

You are the one who inserted yourself into this conversation. Just like you insert yourself in ANY conversation that seems to mention racism. Rather transparent wouldn't you say? 

And just so we're clear I could give two fucks about any opinions you have about anything, much less Janet Jackson.  You never really say anything of substance anyway. But you are not going to defend racist behavior and then act like a victim and attack me when I correct your ignorance. Consider yourself warned. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:41 PM, Karma said:

This thread reeks of racism. It's unbelievable to me how such a progressive artist like Madonna attracts prejudiced fans. Yes, Hip-hop is an art form, as valid as any other artistic expression. You don't like Madonna's recent offerings? That's fine. But let's not pretend her collaborations with black artists are a recent occurrence. Madonna has always been influenced by black culture and she has a genuine appreciation for diverse musical genres.

Funny how you mention "Like A Virgin" as an example of a pure pop song - did you know that song was produced by a Black man? Same with "Material Girl", "Express Yourself", "Borderline", "Lucky Star", "True Blue", "Secret", "Take A Bow", to name a few classics. Do you know about the origin of "Vogue" in the Harlem ballroom scene? The KKK burning crosses on the "Like A Prayer" music video? Have you read about the black history of disco music and rock & roll?. Madonna isn't Kylie Minogue, she was raised in the suburbs of Detroit for goodness' sake.

I just said that the collaborations that she did with Prince and Babyface seemed excellent to me, also how I regret that she has not collaborated with Michael Jackson. So your theory is ruled out and wrong.

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14 hours ago, gafuller said:

Though I understand this is your opinion… can you explain how rap is the worst genre. All genres of music have qualities and characteristics that are of value to culture or society one way or another. Do I find country less than appealing? Absolutely. But do I tune Music out as an album because the borrowed elements of it visually and sonically? No. M used it for her art and I can’t argue it didn’t come through wonderfully. Are all features good? That’s subjective. Some are excellent and some I could go without but ultimately M found something wonderful and creative in their contribution. As a race issue? All her features that are explicitly rap are black artists. That is where you will run into this looking like a personal issue of race. If you cannot find something good in a particular type of music, perhaps that is cause for you to reflect. I don’t care for modern country but I can find some wonderful country songs here and there and especially when I look at some older country artists. 

Of course, rap seems to me the worst musical genre (as I have already said) because of the absurd and nonsensical lyrics (not to say silly), the excessive use of slang and invented words, the lack of melody, just a beat and someone speaking without any vocal ability to sing.

Surely there will be exceptions, like everything in this life, not for nothing that word was invented but those are the reasons that if it depended on me I would never listen to that music but what can I do if my idol likes to include them in her songs, then I don't have left no choice but to have to listen to them.

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On 2/7/2022 at 4:45 PM, Prince of Darkness said:

This thread is full of the usual users accusing everyone of racism because some people don't seem to like Madonna and her Rap direction. Disliking Rap or disliking some of the Rap that Madonna has featured on her albums has nothing to do with being racist against anyone black. Madonna did not start out or build her fanbase off of being Kanye West, The racism card is usually just an excuse to try and silence criticism about many of her more recent projects from butthurt fans who cry whenever anyone dares criticize Madonna and her series of bad collaborations. The collaborations are bad because they are bad, not because of the artists ethnicity. Atleast Madame X gave us the excellent Crave video, something decent for a change. I am not a fan of Mongolian Throat Singing, that does not mean I am racist against Native Mongolians. More people in this forum should start thinking with their heads and not get over emotional about everything.

I really liked your comment. Let me tell you something, I'm not from the USA but from Latin America and the first time I heard rap (since I didn't even know the genre) was in a song by Nelly Furtado with a Latin rapper named Residente (who by the way is not black) , the song was called "No hay igual", back in 2006. The song was pretty without reaching to be excellent until this guy Residente started "singing" and I'm not lying when I say that the lyrics were the most ridiculous and stupid I had heard so far in a song, he definitely spoiled it.

Since 2000 Reggaeton has become very fashionable and it is another genre that I don't like, it is similar to rap and people of ALL RACES sing it. Maluma, Daddy Yankee, Bad Bunny are some of its most "valuable" exponents, but hey, I prefer not to bet that Madonna will sing with any of them on her next album, so let's prepare my ears.

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5 hours ago, chaosmen1984mk said:

Of course, rap seems to me the worst musical genre (as I have already said) because of the absurd and nonsensical lyrics (not to say silly), the excessive use of slang and invented words, the lack of melody, just a beat and someone speaking without any vocal ability to sing.

Surely there will be exceptions, like everything in this life, not for nothing that word was invented but those are the reasons that if it depended on me I would never listen to that music but what can I do if my idol likes to include them in her songs, then I don't have left no choice but to have to listen to them.

I’ll suggest a Nicki Minaj album to anyone needing to see someone with flow or bars while rapping and also have singing ability. And ofcourse maybe that’s another misunderstanding. Rappers aim for different metric and goals when they rap over a beat. Now is all rap gorgeous… absolutely not. But all genders have awful songs. EVERY GENRE. And by the end of your statement, you’ve kinda just explained one of the very reasons Madonna is likely pushing features. To expose others to something they would otherwise ignore or not listen to. Now ofcourse it’s for you to listen and decide whether skip or listen again.  Not to start a whole thread about how rap is the worst genre … to you. A better way to bring this kinda subject to the table is “What Is Everyone’s Thoughts on Madonna’s Features”. And if you can’t see pros and cons with some sort of openness to why they are present or relevant in current music culture. Which another thing. M is using relevant choices for songs like everyone else. Modern albums by leading artists feature numerous features. It could be viewed loosely as intersectionality in which you view how to different views or ideas cross. With M you look at Medellin (since someone dragged Maluma in here). It’s a song that takes pop and reggaeton and mixes them to reach multiple markets. And multiple markets would be the reason hits so many different genres and features in her albums lately. Just some stuff to think on.

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