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Warner/Interscope/GuyO/Gomest blaming


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TonyMontana

I remember clearly when M left Warner for Interscope most of her fanbase was so happy cause they blamed Warner for bad management, and now people blame Interscope for bad management and are happy she's back with Warner... just like they blame Guy Oseary for bad management too... It's been years i hear complaints about her being the victim of bad management from everyone around her. Sorry but i seriously begin to question myself. What if things are excatly like how M herself want them to be ? and

Prayer

Of course she's Madonna and has the final say over her final product and the way she presents herself to the world. But some of that blaming is legit and other is not, in my opinion. Warner Circa 2008/2009: not gonna lie, I was one of those that thought Warner was abandoning her. The "Hard Candy" promotion after the first single wasn't the best and by the time "Miles Away" was released and was a major flop (except in Japan) something was off. I guess they gave up, since she was leaving anyw

RUADJAI

I think there's a level of attention to detail that's missing and I think that comes down to the music industry not making the money it used to. This means she doesn't have the expansive team of people she used to.  It also accounts for the weird marketing strategies that are just out of touch with society like Meerkat, Grindr, WOW NFTs, and exorbitant ticket prices for an underfunded, underdeveloped theatre show. Instead of using choreographers, I'll just let my dancers be the choreographers. I

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10 minutes ago, Prayer said:

 

Guy Oseary: he was a great A&R man when she discovered Alanis Morissette. No doubt he was a great help and supporter for her before becoming her full time manager (full time until he decided to share her with a million other projects). In the last decade, he's been good with money and deals and that was helpful for her after the 2008 divorce, I guess. Apart from that, like Janet would say: "What have you done for me lately?". Cause I can only think of the NFT s***y stuff to get her some coin. She's been basically on hew own for quite some time now. But of course maybe there are things behind the scenes that we don't get to see.

 

This is a ridiculous assessment of Guy.  He has been very successful and effective as M's manager - what has he done for her lately? He lead her return back to Warner and facilitated the catalogue reissue deal which has already made M fans happy. Guy is heavily involved in everything M does from the bio-pic to the Frozen remixes to the NFT art and the everything for Finally Enough Love etc 

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4 minutes ago, GregVsMatt said:

This is a ridiculous assessment of Guy.  He has been very successful and effective as M's manager - what has he done for her lately? He lead her return back to Warner and facilitated the catalogue reissue deal which has already made M fans happy. Guy is heavily involved in everything M does from the bio-pic to the Frozen remixes to the NFT art and the everything for Finally Enough Love etc 

But the designer of the Standard cover explained how she herself contacted him via DM on Instagram to ask for artwork for "Finally Enough Love". Her, Madonna. And went back and forth cause Warner didn't like the first drafts he presented to her.

That' should be the manager's work, just saying.

I guess you're right about the coming back to Warner, etc.

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Just now, Prayer said:

But the designer of the Standard cover explained how she herself contacted him via DM on Instagram to ask for artwork for "Finally Enough Love". Her, Madonna.

That' should be the manager's work, just saying.

I guess you're right about the coming back to Warner, etc.

I'm friends with Brendon  and that's correct - M engaged with him directly via DM - for the 50 Number One's cover it was Guy who reached out to Aldo and initiated the design process and did the zoom calls with him etc 

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This is a very thorny issue with a lot of fans but I see a few issues here ;

1 -her priorities changed in the 2000s I think - when she and guy realised the amount of money she could get from touring the music kind of took a back seat and I think she got a bit lazy by working with multiple people and producers and we got mediocre albums since hard Candy 

2 her look and image has also drastically changed in the last 4 or 5 years and she has alienated a lot of casual fans and some die hard fans like myself 

3 I don’t blame either record label or Guy - SHE has always been in control of her career . The only time I heard her moaning about interscope was the Mdna album when she said she wanted to release falling free as a single but they refused based on not being commercial enough 

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1 hour ago, Prayer said:

Ricardo: of course the final say about the pictures is her. But he opened the extreme filter door to her, which she previously didn't know or do before him. I have no problem with airbrushing or filters, of course Instagram or a photoshoot is all a "lie" anyway. It's just that I don't think she needs it (she looked beautiful in the natural picture and videos of the latest Pride performance). But of course it's her choice.

M's photos have been getting significantly retouched since her very first album cover...

I think she suffers from body dysmorphia, and I wouldn't blame her for it given the industry she's in.

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1 hour ago, wtg1987 said:

1 -her priorities changed in the 2000s I think - when she and guy realised the amount of money she could get from touring the music kind of took a back seat and I think she got a bit lazy by working with multiple people and producers and we got mediocre albums since hard Candy

That sudden gear-change could be attributed to her trying to recover her divorce settlement losses.

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1 hour ago, GregVsMatt said:

I'm friends with Brendon  and that's correct - M engaged with him directly via DM - for the 50 Number One's cover it was Guy who reached out to Aldo and initiated the design process and did the zoom calls with him etc 

Therein may lie the odd disconnect between the two covers; creative differences between M and management/label.

The same could be presumed about the standard Madame X cover (odd, striking) and the deluxe one (safe, ordinary).

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All this bad taste we have seen lately on several matters, I blame her, not anybody else. She should know better. But I think she has not been feeling ok  for a while and is in total Fuck everybody state of mind and rage after losing her place to the public eye and now it´s like she wants people to be mad the most she can.

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I think she has most of the responsibility. But at her level you can't make it alone, so her management and creative team is to blame because they are not strong enough to give the good advice. Which is something that Liz was able to do. Ricardo might not be the one who decides the level of photoshop, but he is no Herb Ritts, and definitely doesn't have the artistic stature to say "no" or suggest a different direction.

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3 hours ago, TonyMontana said:

What if things are excatly like how M herself want them to be ?

MADONNA IS HER OWN BOSS. The rest is bullshit.

You can blame corporations for bad strategies or deceptive marketing or whatever business move, but this ongoing conversation about Guy Oseary is harassment plain and simple. Give the guy a break, he's a multimillionaire professional managing multimillionaire artists. Or prove me how incompetent he is based on facts, not judgements.

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3 hours ago, Prayer said:

That' should be the manager's work, just saying.

 

WTF

M is her own producer, of course she would be involved in the cover and artwork.

THE MANAGER MANAGES THE ARTIST, NOT THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER COLLABORATORS.

At least you could have complained that it should be the label's job, but then again, it would be a conversation between the company, the designer and M.

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3 hours ago, GregVsMatt said:

This is a ridiculous assessment of Guy.  He has been very successful and effective as M's manager - what has he done for her lately? He lead her return back to Warner and facilitated the catalogue reissue deal which has already made M fans happy. Guy is heavily involved in everything M does from the bio-pic to the Frozen remixes to the NFT art and the everything for Finally Enough Love etc 

Ha I guess this debate will go on forever especially since we’re rarely privy to how these decisions are made.

I don’t think guy is a bad manager when it comes to stuff she’s directly in charge of but the stuff she surely relies on her management for. For example I don’t think she decided to stop releasing 12” singles after leaving Warner or the messy digital rollout of MadameX just to give a couple examples of how her product is not properly delivered.

After all these years she does trust her I'm sure he has a certain influence over her (NFTs cough cough). And you’re proving that in your post. Madonna wanted one cover while him/Warner wanted something else. It seems like they managed to compromise.

Saying Madonna does what is wants is a bit reductive. I’m sure she relies on management and label for a lot of her decisions 

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Madonna made a mistake when she left Warner. They always took care of her, and they did a better job promoting her in 2008 when they didn't care about her anymore than Live Nation ever did. She should have known better than to trust Live Nation as a label. 

However, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Someone is taking care of her catalogue, we have a biopic coming, a remix compilation, re-issues. There is a team of professionals managing her Spotify and raising her profile and she has singles dropping every few months instead of being on complete radio silence for years in between eras. Someone is looking after her. Now if only she would release a new song for the next Marvel movie or whatever. 

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The only part of her management team I don’t like is she doesn’t listen to the fans about what they want - her and guy know we have wanted archive tours demos etc for years and they have lost out on a lot of revenue with collectors selling this stuff over the last 10 years and now it’s on YouTube for free - yes the reissues campaign might make up for that but it’s 10 years too late imo

when we ever get the first album re issue announcement will be very interesting to see what they dig up from her archives 

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1 hour ago, Fabiolous said:

Madonna made a mistake when she left Warner. They always took care of her, and they did a better job promoting her in 2008 when they didn't care about her anymore than Live Nation ever did. She should have known better than to trust Live Nation as a label. 

She left because her contract was up. None of us know what/how little Warner offered her to stay. Maybe they wanted to turn her into a legacy act right away after HC.

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7 hours ago, Prayer said:

Warner Circa 2008/2009: not gonna lie, I was one of those that thought Warner was abandoning her. The "Hard Candy" promotion after the first single wasn't the best and by the time "Miles Away" was released and was a major flop (except in Japan) something was off. I guess they gave up, since she was leaving anyway.

Looking back, I was wrong about Warner, the way they promoted the hell out of everything, at least for the 1st single of every album, was amazing. You couldn't not know Madonna was back with "American Life" (the single), "Hung Up" (of course) or "4 Minutes". For the album release time, they were everywhere and Warner did a great job with that. Also, they did great keeping relationships (payola? ahem) with radio, the fact she had a radio and commercial hit with a new song ("4 Minutes") at 49... that's almost impossible today and syncs, "4 Minutes" was used in different series and ads around the world. That's exposure and money.

We didn’t know how good we had it at Warners till MDNA happened. None of the Interscope singles went top 10 in the UK, yet Celebration was a top 10 hit! Her relationship with radios across the globe was totally different post Warner. Even her releases were handled differently, or better yet, unprofessionally. Remember the Living For Love fiasco in the UK?

Also, a lot of the complaints about Warner came from US fans, as Europe and Japan had a much larger promotional tour for Confessions compared to the US. They also didn’t promote her enough on adult contemporary radio which would have been a more successful radio format for her last 3 WB albums instead of top 40 radio. They waited till “Jump” to push her on A/C radio 🙃

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3 hours ago, PlayPause said:

WTF

M is her own producer, of course she would be involved in the cover and artwork.

THE MANAGER MANAGES THE ARTIST, NOT THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER COLLABORATORS.

At least you could have complained that it should be the label's job, but then again, it would be a conversation between the company, the designer and M.

The manager manages the artist and helps the artist to make possible what the artist want/need for the project. The manager also helps the artist to get contracts, opportunities, etc. etc. Also responsible for finding ways to make the project successful. If Madonna could do all of this on her own, she wouldn't need a manager, right?

Guy was the one who put her in writing camps back in 2014 for the "Rebel Heart" album. She didn't DM any of those writers and producers on Instagram. Her manager contacted those people's managers and made an agreement, as they should.

Of course Guy has nothing to say once the collaboration has started. But getting them together in a room or a Zoom call, yes, it's part of his job.

But I find cute that Madonna DMs directly people and get things done, at least that way she gets what she wants. I love that attitude.

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7 hours ago, TonyMontana said:

I remember clearly when M left Warner for Interscope most of her fanbase was so happy cause they blamed Warner for bad management, and now people blame Interscope for bad management and are happy she's back with Warner... just like they blame Guy Oseary for bad management too... It's been years i hear complaints about her being the victim of bad management from everyone around her. Sorry but i seriously begin to question myself. What if things are excatly like how M herself want them to be ? and when fans don't get what they want they blame someone else around her. To me she's still in control of her artistic and business decisions like she's always been for more than 35 years. Of course sometimes a label can put some pressure for her to release another single than the one she had chosen but overall i di believe she's not a puppet who let her being told everything she has to do when she doesn't agree. Now we also blame Ricardo Gomest for flitering the pics M put HERSLEF on her instagram account. So she is blind now and she doesn't see the heavy filters ? Have you seen that behind the scene video on the "Frozen on fire" video shoot when Ricardo tells her he wants her to film more scene on a particular set and she  clearly tell him "No, i don't want to, i'm not doing it", so you want me to believe she would be afraid to tell him "What have you done on my face on those pics, i don't like it, i'm not posting it" ?! What's next ? We're gonna blame Kim Kardashian for her bad influence on M ass cheeks surgery ? Sorry but those Warner/Interscope/GuyO/Gomest blaming is getting really tired imo. She's Madonna, the woman who has never been afraid to say f*** You to anyone in their face. 

Madam X was to dump her previous fan base and find a new one.
Remix it to sound danceable.
There was a time it already was.
:dance:
 

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