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Warner/Interscope/GuyO/Gomest blaming


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TonyMontana

I remember clearly when M left Warner for Interscope most of her fanbase was so happy cause they blamed Warner for bad management, and now people blame Interscope for bad management and are happy she's back with Warner... just like they blame Guy Oseary for bad management too... It's been years i hear complaints about her being the victim of bad management from everyone around her. Sorry but i seriously begin to question myself. What if things are excatly like how M herself want them to be ? and

Prayer

Of course she's Madonna and has the final say over her final product and the way she presents herself to the world. But some of that blaming is legit and other is not, in my opinion. Warner Circa 2008/2009: not gonna lie, I was one of those that thought Warner was abandoning her. The "Hard Candy" promotion after the first single wasn't the best and by the time "Miles Away" was released and was a major flop (except in Japan) something was off. I guess they gave up, since she was leaving anyw

RUADJAI

I think there's a level of attention to detail that's missing and I think that comes down to the music industry not making the money it used to. This means she doesn't have the expansive team of people she used to.  It also accounts for the weird marketing strategies that are just out of touch with society like Meerkat, Grindr, WOW NFTs, and exorbitant ticket prices for an underfunded, underdeveloped theatre show. Instead of using choreographers, I'll just let my dancers be the choreographers. I

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36 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

Oh yeah? Which part did he do?

 

17 minutes ago, deathproof said:

Rescue Me and Frozen (both Lola and M). I believe there’s others (I think I Rise?), maybe our Madame X Xpert might know @Shoful

I believe he was the creative advisor so I think he did a bit of the forming of ideas around the tour. I believe he choreographed God Control, Frozen, Extreme Occident, and Rescue Me. 

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5 hours ago, slutpride said:

She left because her contract was up. None of us know what/how little Warner offered her to stay. Maybe they wanted to turn her into a legacy act right away after HC.

They kinda hinted LiveNation offered her more money they were open to offer her.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/oct/11/musicnews.digitalmedia

 

 

"It is understood that Warner walked away from talks about a new contract with Madonna last week after deciding that matching Live Nation's offer would not make financial sense and would let down shareholders.

Warner's head Edgar Bronfman Jr has not referred specifically to Madonna's departure but did make his stance on such negotiations clear in a recent speech.

"If a deal doesn't pencil out in a way that meets the needs of artists within a framework of financial discipline we're more likely to walk," he said.

Peter Ruppert, founder of music consultancy Entertainment Media Research said the deal should not throw music industry models into question given that Madonna's contract was unlikely to be widely replicated.

"It's not a wake-up call for the industry. It's a ridiculous deal," he said."

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4 minutes ago, EgoRod said:

They kinda hinted LiveNation offered her more money they were open to offer her.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/oct/11/musicnews.digitalmedia

 

 

"It is understood that Warner walked away from talks about a new contract with Madonna last week after deciding that matching Live Nation's offer would not make financial sense and would let down shareholders.

Warner's head Edgar Bronfman Jr has not referred specifically to Madonna's departure but did make his stance on such negotiations clear in a recent speech.

"If a deal doesn't pencil out in a way that meets the needs of artists within a framework of financial discipline we're more likely to walk," he said.

Peter Ruppert, founder of music consultancy Entertainment Media Research said the deal should not throw music industry models into question given that Madonna's contract was unlikely to be widely replicated.

"It's not a wake-up call for the industry. It's a ridiculous deal," he said."

Do we know if Live Nation is happy about their results with Madonna? I know her records have flopped basically, but what about her concerts? I think the three tours have been quite succesful, at least economically.

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9 minutes ago, deathproof said:

Well as far as I know, no one is doing 360 deals anymore. It’s really just a flash in the pan.

It happens but not the way the Madonna deal was done (worse for the artist, of course). All new and recent artists on the big labels usually have 360 deals, meaning the label gets X % of each concert, merch sale, etc. etc. - without doing anything. But the label feels they "build" the artist so they're entitled to benefit from any profit later.

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Well I was speaking specially about the one’s partnered with tour promoters, not labels.

A lot of artists under label contracts do well with 360 deals nowadays because merchandise and brand partnerships are so big these days.

But label support is still very important for getting your music out there and properly serviced.

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1 hour ago, EgoRod said:

They kinda hinted LiveNation offered her more money they were open to offer her.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/oct/11/musicnews.digitalmedia

"It is understood that Warner walked away from talks about a new contract with Madonna last week after deciding that matching Live Nation's offer would not make financial sense and would let down shareholders.

Warner's head Edgar Bronfman Jr has not referred specifically to Madonna's departure but did make his stance on such negotiations clear in a recent speech.

"If a deal doesn't pencil out in a way that meets the needs of artists within a framework of financial discipline we're more likely to walk," he said.

Peter Ruppert, founder of music consultancy Entertainment Media Research said the deal should not throw music industry models into question given that Madonna's contract was unlikely to be widely replicated.

"It's not a wake-up call for the industry. It's a ridiculous deal," he said."

I guess they couldn't counter with "more creative control" coz Live Nation gave her that as well.

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10 hours ago, Vasili said:

Therein may lie the odd disconnect between the two covers; creative differences between M and management/label.

The same could be presumed about the standard Madame X cover (odd, striking) and the deluxe one (safe, ordinary).

There was always two albums planned for FEL - M was involved in both artworks - Guy contacted Aldo as M liked some of his posts using retro images etc 

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8 hours ago, thegoldencalf said:

Ha I guess this debate will go on forever especially since we’re rarely privy to how these decisions are made.

I don’t think guy is a bad manager when it comes to stuff she’s directly in charge of but the stuff she surely relies on her management for. For example I don’t think she decided to stop releasing 12” singles after leaving Warner or the messy digital rollout of MadameX just to give a couple examples of how her product is not properly delivered.

After all these years she does trust her I'm sure he has a certain influence over her (NFTs cough cough). And you’re proving that in your post. Madonna wanted one cover while him/Warner wanted something else. It seems like they managed to compromise.

Saying Madonna does what is wants is a bit reductive. I’m sure she relies on management and label for a lot of her decisions 

It's two albums though - you can read Aldo's story here (with google translate) https://revistadovilla.com.br/2022/06/29/designer-brasileiro-aldo-diaz-e-o-responsavel-pela-capa-da-nova-de-madonna-finally-enough-love-entrevista-por-rodolfo-abreu/?fbclid=IwAR0xBfZNal1q2CXn09wwF5MWcR_T_ITPhRjlpQptUOBTIzLDTNEE-mhf9Nk

 

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I think this is all a moot point. The industry shifted dramatically post 2008 - streaming was just taking off and it really took off post that. Madonna took time off from music for 4 years - and focused on the move W.E rather than her profile.

The lack of promotion of MDNA was a deliberate decision by Madonna, Guy and whoever else was involved in the process. Did it work? No. The decision for GMAYL as the lead single - it made sense - did it work? No.

By the time Rebel Heart came around - fans leaked almost every demo way before its release - Living for Love was a shit song for radio - again Madonna's choice - but she promoted the shit out of RH - did it help? No. 

There was a shift in the industry post 2012 - older artists became less influential - same thing happened with Kylie Minogue - if you look at her chart success in the UK - it took a dive post around 2013 - and it's never come back.

To place the blame on Warner, Interscope, Guy or Madonna is silly - no one can remain at the top forever and that's just the reality of life.

 

 

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9 hours ago, slutpride said:

She left because her contract was up. None of us know what/how little Warner offered her to stay. Maybe they wanted to turn her into a legacy act right away after HC.

Instead she did her own thing and she turned into a no-one-remembers-her-legacy act. I remember most people complaining that they didn't want to hear the new stuff at pretty much every tour she's had since. 

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1 hour ago, Jackie said:

I think this is all a moot point. The industry shifted dramatically post 2008 - streaming was just taking off and it really took off post that. Madonna took time off from music for 4 years - and focused on the move W.E rather than her profile.

The lack of promotion of MDNA was a deliberate decision by Madonna, Guy and whoever else was involved in the process. Did it work? No. The decision for GMAYL as the lead single - it made sense - did it work? No.

By the time Rebel Heart came around - fans leaked almost every demo way before its release - Living for Love was a shit song for radio - again Madonna's choice - but she promoted the shit out of RH - did it help? No. 

There was a shift in the industry post 2012 - older artists became less influential - same thing happened with Kylie Minogue - if you look at her chart success in the UK - it took a dive post around 2013 - and it's never come back.

To place the blame on Warner, Interscope, Guy or Madonna is silly - no one can remain at the top forever and that's just the reality of life.

 

 

But withholding Living For Love for sale in the UK on iTunes until Feb 25, which was a Wednesday, isnt just some random occurrence. That was an idiotic decision from someone on her team/label. In the middle of the week?! 

Also, Surely her team would have learned by then that instant grat tracks from pre-orders don’t count towards the hot 100.

I think we can all agree that the release of Rebel Heart was just a mess. If certain things were done properly and with care, we’d be having a different conversation. You can’t just blame everything on age when it was clear no one was taking their job seriously.

 

 

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16 hours ago, TonyMontana said:

I remember clearly when M left Warner for Interscope most of her fanbase was so happy cause they blamed Warner for bad management, and now people blame Interscope for bad management and are happy she's back with Warner... just like they blame Guy Oseary for bad management too... It's been years i hear complaints about her being the victim of bad management from everyone around her. Sorry but i seriously begin to question myself. What if things are excatly like how M herself want them to be ? and when fans don't get what they want they blame someone else around her. To me she's still in control of her artistic and business decisions like she's always been for more than 35 years. Of course sometimes a label can put some pressure for her to release another single than the one she had chosen but overall i di believe she's not a puppet who let her being told everything she has to do when she doesn't agree. Now we also blame Ricardo Gomest for flitering the pics M put HERSLEF on her instagram account. So she is blind now and she doesn't see the heavy filters ? Have you seen that behind the scene video on the "Frozen on fire" video shoot when Ricardo tells her he wants her to film more scene on a particular set and she  clearly tell him "No, i don't want to, i'm not doing it", so you want me to believe she would be afraid to tell him "What have you done on my face on those pics, i don't like it, i'm not posting it" ?! What's next ? We're gonna blame Kim Kardashian for her bad influence on M ass cheeks surgery ? Sorry but those Warner/Interscope/GuyO/Gomest blaming is getting really tired imo. She's Madonna, the woman who has never been afraid to say f*** You to anyone in their face. 

I speak as one of the blame of Ricardo, you are 100% right. I mean seriously. Another example, No one has forced Madonna to make a giant fake butt. It was just Madonna's own choice. We love Madonna so much that we're trying to ignore the fact that she made these terrible consequences and look for another victim to be blamed on her behalf.

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41 minutes ago, deathproof said:

But withholding Living For Love for sale in the UK on iTunes until Feb 25, which was a Wednesday, isnt just some random occurrence. That was an idiotic decision from someone on her team/label. In the middle of the week?! 

Also, Surely her team would have learned by then that instant grat tracks from pre-orders don’t count towards the hot 100.

I think we can all agree that the release of Rebel Heart was just a mess. If certain things were done properly and with care, we’d be having a different conversation. You can’t just blame everything on age when it was clear no one was taking their job seriously.

 

 

Possibly - BBC1 said it wasn't a song they wanted to play - so that didn't help. 

The delay also happened with Warner - with Nothing Really Matters - 

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59 minutes ago, MadameX said:

I speak as one of the blame of Ricardo, you are 100% right. I mean seriously. Another example, No one has forced Madonna to make a giant fake butt. It was just Madonna's own choice. We love Madonna so much that we're trying to ignore the fact that she made these terrible consequences and look for another victim to be blamed on her behalf.

i thought i told you to stop  

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 Madonna had defied odds much longer than expected by continuing to chart into 2000, long after the expected shelf life for a female pop star had expired. Everything was downhill from the Halftime Show on, there was major change going on in the industry and a series of largely self inflicted wounds by Madonna herself ever since, made worse by bad promotional factors. Finally Enough Love is really the first time she has embraced her legacy although its most likely too late for any kind of serious comeback at this point because of how alienated she has become from the general public. Controversy has been a double edged sword for her career, it worked wonders in the early days and now it is a cross to carry, Madonna failed to adapt in time and her career is now paying the price. She has some serious PR heavy lifting that needs to be done if she ever wants to be embraced by the mainstream like other older artists such as Elton John.

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1 hour ago, Skyline Pigeon said:

 Madonna had defied odds much longer than expected by continuing to chart into 2000, long after the expected shelf life for a female pop star had expired. Everything was downhill from the Halftime Show on, there was major change going on in the industry and a series of largely self inflicted wounds by Madonna herself ever since, made worse by bad promotional factors. Finally Enough Love is really the first time she has embraced her legacy although its most likely too late for any kind of serious comeback at this point because of how alienated she has become from the general public. Controversy has been a double edged sword for her career, it worked wonders in the early days and now it is a cross to carry, Madonna failed to adapt in time and her career is now paying the price. She has some serious PR heavy lifting that needs to be done if she ever wants to be embraced by the mainstream like other older artists such as Elton John.

This. 

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