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Madonna & Tokischa - Hung Up Remix Music Video


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2 hours ago, momosfantasy said:

Right here, you've proven the (extremely well thought out) point that @Roland Barthesis making: that there is a right vs wrong way for Madonna (specifically Madonna, but presumably for all women in general) to create art or to express her/their sexuality. 

And here there be Trigger/Thesis Paper warnings for forum members who won't/can't read anything longer than a tweet, especially if there aren't accompanying pictures.

@MadameX, you say you wouldn't care if Madonna performs naked on stage as long as she "does it right".  But who judges what's right? And this is where you prove the above argument, because conservative people are generally the ones who try to stymie those who don't play by the established rules of the status quo.  Suggesting that the quality of ones art or that an expression of consentual sexuality can or should be subjected to an arbitrary standard of approval for it to be valid (aka "right") is a pretty standard part of conservatism.  It's not a huge leap to break Right vs Wrong down into even more specific and often uglier extremes like Black vs White, Man vs Woman, Straight vs Gay, Male Gender vs Female Gender, etc. (By the way, I'm not suggesting that anyone here has those beliefs, just that binary conservative thinking can all too often devolve into those belief systems.)

Conservative "wisdom" says that the Amanda Cazalet kiss=sexy, the Britney kiss=iconic, and the Tokischa kiss=trashy; this seems to be the progression, or am I mistaken?

We can presume what people are thinking is wrong: here is an older woman going to extremes, sometimes in ways that would be considered by mainstream society to be "obscene", "unbecoming", "trashy", even "desperate".  These are words that have followed her through her entire career, whether about her naked body, her medical procedures, or the age of her boyfriends (or girlfriends, who knows?  She's does everything but scissor Tokischa in the video.)

Another thing that's followed her throughout her career are people underestimating her.  And yet, she's still here inspiring important and topical discussions, whether you love what she's doing or hate it.  You'll notice that there aren't a lot of people claiming the middle ground.

Remember, Madonna is not a stupid woman.  She is well aware of what people's opinions are regarding her art, her behavior, her looks, and her lifestyle.  Hell, she's mentioned the grillz in two different songs.  So that means one of two things:

1: She's doing this stuff for attention, and doesn't care whether it's good or bad attention.  I say that because if she was only after "good" attention, there are a lot easier and more obvious routes to take.  And either way, she's getting the attention and the result is the same: success. 

2. She's doing this stuff because it's fun for her and she's enjoying herself, whether or not we agree with her public presentation.  End result?  Success.

This is where it becomes relevant to ask yourself the question: what is it that bothers me about Madonna at this point? 

Is it that you don't enjoy the music anymore?  Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make the music she's making wrong or bad in any type of measurable way.  She's made enough music at this point for most of us to have songs, albums, or even whole eras we dislike, and that's pretty understandable considering the depth and breadth of her work.  Personally, I think Hard Candy is crap, but that's my own taste, and I certainly won't say that she's wrong for doing it or others are bad for enjoying it.

Are you worried about her legacy and it's reputation?  Don't be dramatic, she could film herself taking a shit on the side of the road for her next video, but no matter how scandalized the papers will pretend to be, they'll still have to mention at least SOME of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Madonna_records_and_achievements, because nobody can take away what she's already achieved.  And 99% of the population will still say "Like a Prayer" is a fantastic song.

Or is it that Madonna in her 60s isn't behaving in a way that YOU don't approve of or enjoy?  Are you embarrassed to tell people that you're a fan?  Cuz if someone's fandom depends on the approval of other people, I'd have to argue that a person like that is more of a poseur than a fan anyways.

I guess the moral of the story here is that @Roland Barthesis absolutely correct in his assessment, and that even in her 60s, Madonna continues to be an artist that challenges our outlook and beliefs, and hopefully makes us reexamine the more stale and conservative views that we ALL have, whether it's how a woman of a certain age "should" conduct herself, what a mature pop star "should" sound like, or any of the other views that exist only to impose limitations instead of embracing the endless possibilities that are open to all of us.  That's why I love what she's doing, and that's why she'll always be the one and only Queen.

 

Thanks for the kudos.

I don't know if on this particular occasion it's a conscious choice or if it's just for the fun of pushing people's buttons but it looks like what she did in the past, pushing the envelope, the difference is now we are the old farts we used to mock during the Erotica days. It reminds me of the overton window in poilitics, going as far as possible in what people are willing to accept and eventually, by repeating it, they accept it and even get bored by it because the limit has been pushed further meanwhile progressive ideas have made a progress into peope's consciousness. I'm pretty sure some of the fans who are disgusted by this video today will fiind it pretty tame in a few years and maybe, even laught at their own reaction to it.

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@Simonsaysnever say never. The shit she got for wearing a leotard at 47. When JLO turned 50 and wore one and even less, everybody was "you go girl". It will never be acceptable for Madonna but it will for others, in time. People forgot about how Mae West was mocked for being sexual and dating young men late in her life now they say she was ballsy. 

Since the internet came into the equation, some fans are too aware of what other people think and say. And i like that she's really going against what the effing internet culture and social media correctness, what people must do or say to be popular or at least not getting a bad buzz. Stars of today are pretty bland, they say what people want them to say meaning they say nothing. They put on a dress and sing a ballad or a disco song and make. By coming to this forum i discovered that some fans are fans of her because she's famous, and i don't think she was ever about that. she played the game but always twisted things up. Celebrity culture is another poison just like forum culture :)  I can't wait for the day culture will be over the internet like it happened to tv. At least with tv people were not whoring for likes. This need for validation is seriously killing politics and art because forward thinking does not equate instant likes. People don't want to be disturbed out of their comfort zone...but they like the progress it brings.  I mean, i don't want to bring back the atrocious transphobic talk we read here but people were not totally embracing the transwomen who made Stonewall a riot that started a gay rights revolution....and some still don't but they enjoy the rights it brought them. 

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33 minutes ago, Alibaba said:

Madonna pretends to drink and use cannabis for the negative response she gets for it? Seems unlikely, but why not? It’s true that she definitely doesn’t give a hoot how she is perceived. To me, she seems to be caught up in processing an anger that results from the friction between her self-image and her public image. As fascinating as that is - although she is certainly stingy nowadays in terms of throwing us crumbs about who she truly is behind the mask -  it’s also uncomfortable to observe at times. That’s just an opinion, but I’m sure some other fans can relate. 
 

While everyone is entitled to love or leave whatever Madonna does these days, there’s a common truth that no one wants to continue highlighting here because it incurs too much wrath, and yet it deserves to be explored more intellectually. Much of the rejection of modern Madonna is not only about ageism, but also about perceived mediocrity (again, it’s all about opinion and taste). Whether that is because Madonna wants to emulate the general mediocrity of current algorithmic, reductive pop culture to stay current and fit in or because she isn’t very good anymore is sort of a pointless debate. She may simply be having fun, and good for her, but I do often find myself asking what the point is of her harping on about a message that is never actually reflected in her work? The end product isn’t disturbing the peace, nor is it breaking new ground. It is aesthetically displeasing to many, has no social context or message other than the perpetuation of vapid narcissism, and therefore has no exceptional reason to enter the zeitgeist. Madonna has principles. Madonna has experience. Madonna has a history of injecting her work with the personal and the provocative, and yet there hasn’t been an ounce of that in anything she has done since Madame X. 
 

Another elephant in the room is that Madonna’s legacy has been canceled, or at the very least radically reduced due in great part to the problematic existence of a privileged, self-obsessive, white woman with a history of alleged cultural appropriation failing to address her cultural impact in a contemporary manner. I see it in every newspaper or cultural magazine. Madonna is an afterthought. She is rarely quoted or named as an example of anything…this after three decades of being the de facto reference for everything from motherhood, philosophy and spirituality to sex, politics and materialism. These are not my feelings about her at all. I am not an apologist. I don’t do woke revisionism. I accept that culture is vibrant and ever changing, and that great artists are also often personally problematic and compromised. This generation will eat itself, and its Pollyanna activism will barely make a ripple in the grand scheme of non-manufactured consent and dissent. Of this I am certain. I love Madonna for her irreverence, her rudeness and her arrogance. Sometimes her insecurities overshadow these qualities and make her seem mean and callous, but that’s who she has always been, and will eventually be celebrated and cited for. Not the icon on a pedestal many of her fans want to hold onto…that’s fine too. After all, she spent decades building that facade. Ugliness and mediocrity can be found throughout her career. There are moments when things were gauche or gratuitous. I can be objective about that and still be captivated by her, even at her very worst! Usually these short chapters were countered by a moment of sheer brilliance and a momentary embrace of conventional beauty and glamor…just enough to keep everyone mesmerized. That’s the part that is missing, and a lot of that comes from the discomfort surrounding her radically altered appearance and her complete disregard for convention. Discussing this from a more objective perspective is difficult on here as there is always someone ready to pounce on any implication they can insert of misogyny, ageism, or discrimination of any other kind. I understand this too. We are all trying to be just, fair and inclusive, but let’s be honest…it’s so confusing nowadays to speak on anything due to the necessary vetting we all must do before risking our reputations and our feelings by sharing a personal perspective. Maybe that’s the source of any true activism to be found at the core of the essence of Madonna’s legacy…that her very existence provokes so much confusion and vitriol because it is so charged with electricity…because she invited us all to approve and disapprove constantly for the sake of the exposure and the collective reactivity…because she told us not to take anything literally while hiding behind a blanket of alleged irony that was often just an expression of her own struggle with literalism. The guarantee I see is that those of us who remain beholden to her artistry will all rip each other to shreds just because we think we all know/own a part of her that no one else sees. I wish there was more incentive to invest time in discussing Madonna’s latter day output, but until her innovative nature re-emerges,  I’m personally left still waiting for the extraordinary courage of Baldwin’s spirit that she so often references to manifest in Madonna’s work. 

Now THIS is truly well said.  Everything that you've brought up here is well reasoned and, in my own opinion, absolutely accurate.  Especially the point you've made about our own reputations within the realm of social media and the cancel culture we live in.

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4 hours ago, Alibaba said:

Madonna pretends to drink and use cannabis for the negative response she gets for it? Seems unlikely, but why not? It’s true that she definitely doesn’t give a hoot how she is perceived. To me, she seems to be caught up in processing an anger that results from the friction between her self-image and her public image. As fascinating as that is - although she is certainly stingy nowadays in terms of throwing us crumbs about who she truly is behind the mask -  it’s also uncomfortable to observe at times. That’s just an opinion, but I’m sure some other fans can relate. 
 

While everyone is entitled to love or leave whatever Madonna does these days, there’s a common truth that no one wants to continue highlighting here because it incurs too much wrath, and yet it deserves to be explored more intellectually. Much of the rejection of modern Madonna is not only about ageism, but also about perceived mediocrity (again, it’s all about opinion and taste). Whether that is because Madonna wants to emulate the general mediocrity of current algorithmic, reductive pop culture to stay current and fit in or because she isn’t very good anymore is sort of a pointless debate. She may simply be having fun, and good for her, but I do often find myself asking what the point is of her harping on about a message that is never actually reflected in her work? The end product isn’t disturbing the peace, nor is it breaking new ground. It is aesthetically displeasing to many, has no social context or message other than the perpetuation of vapid narcissism, and therefore has no exceptional reason to enter the zeitgeist. Madonna has principles. Madonna has experience. Madonna has a history of injecting her work with the personal and the provocative, and yet there hasn’t been an ounce of that in anything she has done since Madame X. 
 

Another elephant in the room is that Madonna’s legacy has been canceled, or at the very least radically reduced due in great part to the problematic existence of a privileged, self-obsessive, white woman with a history of alleged cultural appropriation failing to address her cultural impact in a contemporary manner. I see it in every newspaper or cultural magazine. Madonna is an afterthought. She is rarely quoted or named as an example of anything…this after three decades of being the de facto reference for everything from motherhood, philosophy and spirituality to sex, politics and materialism. These are not my feelings about her at all. I am not an apologist. I don’t do woke revisionism. I accept that culture is vibrant and ever changing, and that great artists are also often personally problematic and compromised. This generation will eat itself, and its Pollyanna activism will barely make a ripple in the grand scheme of non-manufactured consent and dissent. Of this I am certain. I love Madonna for her irreverence, her rudeness and her arrogance. Sometimes her insecurities overshadow these qualities and make her seem mean and callous, but that’s who she has always been, and will eventually be celebrated and cited for. Not the icon on a pedestal many of her fans want to hold onto…that’s fine too. After all, she spent decades building that facade. Ugliness and mediocrity can be found throughout her career. There are moments when things were gauche or gratuitous. I can be objective about that and still be captivated by her, even at her very worst! Usually these short chapters were countered by a moment of sheer brilliance and a momentary embrace of conventional beauty and glamor…just enough to keep everyone mesmerized. That’s the part that is missing, and a lot of that comes from the discomfort surrounding her radically altered appearance and her complete disregard for convention. Discussing this from a more objective perspective is difficult on here as there is always someone ready to pounce on any implication they can insert of misogyny, ageism, or discrimination of any other kind. I understand this too. We are all trying to be just, fair and inclusive, but let’s be honest…it’s so confusing nowadays to speak on anything due to the necessary vetting we all must do before risking our reputations and our feelings by sharing a personal perspective. Maybe that’s the source of any true activism to be found at the core of the essence of Madonna’s legacy…that her very existence provokes so much confusion and vitriol because it is so charged with electricity…because she invited us all to approve and disapprove constantly for the sake of the exposure and the collective reactivity…because she told us not to take anything literally while hiding behind a blanket of alleged irony that was often just an expression of her own struggle with literalism. The guarantee I see is that those of us who remain beholden to her artistry will all rip each other to shreds just because we think we all know/own a part of her that no one else sees. I wish there was more incentive to invest time in discussing Madonna’s latter day output, but until her innovative nature re-emerges,  I’m personally left still waiting for the extraordinary courage of Baldwin’s spirit that she so often references to manifest in Madonna’s work. 

wow!

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15 hours ago, Alibaba said:

Madonna pretends to drink and use cannabis for the negative response she gets for it? Seems unlikely, but why not? It’s true that she definitely doesn’t give a hoot how she is perceived. To me, she seems to be caught up in processing an anger that results from the friction between her self-image and her public image. As fascinating as that is - although she is certainly stingy nowadays in terms of throwing us crumbs about who she truly is behind the mask -  it’s also uncomfortable to observe at times. That’s just an opinion, but I’m sure some other fans can relate. 
 

While everyone is entitled to love or leave whatever Madonna does these days, there’s a common truth that no one wants to continue highlighting here because it incurs too much wrath, and yet it deserves to be explored more intellectually. Much of the rejection of modern Madonna is not only about ageism, but also about perceived mediocrity (again, it’s all about opinion and taste). Whether that is because Madonna wants to emulate the general mediocrity of current algorithmic, reductive pop culture to stay current and fit in or because she isn’t very good anymore is sort of a pointless debate. She may simply be having fun, and good for her, but I do often find myself asking what the point is of her harping on about a message that is never actually reflected in her work? The end product isn’t disturbing the peace, nor is it breaking new ground. It is aesthetically displeasing to many, has no social context or message other than the perpetuation of vapid narcissism, and therefore has no exceptional reason to enter the zeitgeist. Madonna has principles. Madonna has experience. Madonna has a history of injecting her work with the personal and the provocative, and yet there hasn’t been an ounce of that in anything she has done since Madame X. 
 

Another elephant in the room is that Madonna’s legacy has been canceled, or at the very least radically reduced due in great part to the problematic existence of a privileged, self-obsessive, white woman with a history of alleged cultural appropriation failing to address her cultural impact in a contemporary manner. I see it in every newspaper or cultural magazine. Madonna is an afterthought. She is rarely quoted or named as an example of anything…this after three decades of being the de facto reference for everything from motherhood, philosophy and spirituality to sex, politics and materialism. These are not my feelings about her at all. I am not an apologist. I don’t do woke revisionism. I accept that culture is vibrant and ever changing, and that great artists are also often personally problematic and compromised. This generation will eat itself, and its Pollyanna activism will barely make a ripple in the grand scheme of non-manufactured consent and dissent. Of this I am certain. I love Madonna for her irreverence, her rudeness and her arrogance. Sometimes her insecurities overshadow these qualities and make her seem mean and callous, but that’s who she has always been, and will eventually be celebrated and cited for. Not the icon on a pedestal many of her fans want to hold onto…that’s fine too. After all, she spent decades building that facade. Ugliness and mediocrity can be found throughout her career. There are moments when things were gauche or gratuitous. I can be objective about that and still be captivated by her, even at her very worst! Usually these short chapters were countered by a moment of sheer brilliance and a momentary embrace of conventional beauty and glamor…just enough to keep everyone mesmerized. That’s the part that is missing, and a lot of that comes from the discomfort surrounding her radically altered appearance and her complete disregard for convention. Discussing this from a more objective perspective is difficult on here as there is always someone ready to pounce on any implication they can insert of misogyny, ageism, or discrimination of any other kind. I understand this too. We are all trying to be just, fair and inclusive, but let’s be honest…it’s so confusing nowadays to speak on anything due to the necessary vetting we all must do before risking our reputations and our feelings by sharing a personal perspective. Maybe that’s the source of any true activism to be found at the core of the essence of Madonna’s legacy…that her very existence provokes so much confusion and vitriol because it is so charged with electricity…because she invited us all to approve and disapprove constantly for the sake of the exposure and the collective reactivity…because she told us not to take anything literally while hiding behind a blanket of alleged irony that was often just an expression of her own struggle with literalism. The guarantee I see is that those of us who remain beholden to her artistry will all rip each other to shreds just because we think we all know/own a part of her that no one else sees. I wish there was more incentive to invest time in discussing Madonna’s latter day output, but until her innovative nature re-emerges,  I’m personally left still waiting for the extraordinary courage of Baldwin’s spirit that she so often references to manifest in Madonna’s work. 

This is the kind of post I come here for. Thank you.

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3 hours ago, Simonsays said:

The problem is he forgets to include the part “ in my opinion “

We all are just posting opinions. I enjoy that member's take on things. Very honest. It's neither extreme we see a lot of here: "She's the queen and you can all fuck off" or "She's destroyed everything!!!!". No inbetween allowed around here. Their opinion is a well thought out critique from someone who clearly graduated from Ciccone University with top honors.

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22 hours ago, Alibaba said:

Madonna pretends to drink and use cannabis for the negative response she gets for it? Seems unlikely, but why not? It’s true that she definitely doesn’t give a hoot how she is perceived. To me, she seems to be caught up in processing an anger that results from the friction between her self-image and her public image. As fascinating as that is - although she is certainly stingy nowadays in terms of throwing us crumbs about who she truly is behind the mask -  it’s also uncomfortable to observe at times. That’s just an opinion, but I’m sure some other fans can relate. 
 

While everyone is entitled to love or leave whatever Madonna does these days, there’s a common truth that no one wants to continue highlighting here because it incurs too much wrath, and yet it deserves to be explored more intellectually. Much of the rejection of modern Madonna is not only about ageism, but also about perceived mediocrity (again, it’s all about opinion and taste). Whether that is because Madonna wants to emulate the general mediocrity of current algorithmic, reductive pop culture to stay current and fit in or because she isn’t very good anymore is sort of a pointless debate. She may simply be having fun, and good for her, but I do often find myself asking what the point is of her harping on about a message that is never actually reflected in her work? The end product isn’t disturbing the peace, nor is it breaking new ground. It is aesthetically displeasing to many, has no social context or message other than the perpetuation of vapid narcissism, and therefore has no exceptional reason to enter the zeitgeist. Madonna has principles. Madonna has experience. Madonna has a history of injecting her work with the personal and the provocative, and yet there hasn’t been an ounce of that in anything she has done since Madame X. 
 

Another elephant in the room is that Madonna’s legacy has been canceled, or at the very least radically reduced due in great part to the problematic existence of a privileged, self-obsessive, white woman with a history of alleged cultural appropriation failing to address her cultural impact in a contemporary manner. I see it in every newspaper or cultural magazine. Madonna is an afterthought. She is rarely quoted or named as an example of anything…this after three decades of being the de facto reference for everything from motherhood, philosophy and spirituality to sex, politics and materialism. These are not my feelings about her at all. I am not an apologist. I don’t do woke revisionism. I accept that culture is vibrant and ever changing, and that great artists are also often personally problematic and compromised. This generation will eat itself, and its Pollyanna activism will barely make a ripple in the grand scheme of non-manufactured consent and dissent. Of this I am certain. I love Madonna for her irreverence, her rudeness and her arrogance. Sometimes her insecurities overshadow these qualities and make her seem mean and callous, but that’s who she has always been, and will eventually be celebrated and cited for. Not the icon on a pedestal many of her fans want to hold onto…that’s fine too. After all, she spent decades building that facade. Ugliness and mediocrity can be found throughout her career. There are moments when things were gauche or gratuitous. I can be objective about that and still be captivated by her, even at her very worst! Usually these short chapters were countered by a moment of sheer brilliance and a momentary embrace of conventional beauty and glamor…just enough to keep everyone mesmerized. That’s the part that is missing, and a lot of that comes from the discomfort surrounding her radically altered appearance and her complete disregard for convention. Discussing this from a more objective perspective is difficult on here as there is always someone ready to pounce on any implication they can insert of misogyny, ageism, or discrimination of any other kind. I understand this too. We are all trying to be just, fair and inclusive, but let’s be honest…it’s so confusing nowadays to speak on anything due to the necessary vetting we all must do before risking our reputations and our feelings by sharing a personal perspective. Maybe that’s the source of any true activism to be found at the core of the essence of Madonna’s legacy…that her very existence provokes so much confusion and vitriol because it is so charged with electricity…because she invited us all to approve and disapprove constantly for the sake of the exposure and the collective reactivity…because she told us not to take anything literally while hiding behind a blanket of alleged irony that was often just an expression of her own struggle with literalism. The guarantee I see is that those of us who remain beholden to her artistry will all rip each other to shreds just because we think we all know/own a part of her that no one else sees. I wish there was more incentive to invest time in discussing Madonna’s latter day output, but until her innovative nature re-emerges,  I’m personally left still waiting for the extraordinary courage of Baldwin’s spirit that she so often references to manifest in Madonna’s work. 

This is one of the best posts I've read on here. Wow. 

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1 hour ago, Simonsays said:

yes but some talk like the opinion they have is right - anyway she's damned if she does and damned if she doesnt so she may as well do what the hell she likes 

no filter = oh she looks tired and old thats a bad shot she should remove it 

filter = who is she trying to fool ? 

this is coming from mostly people who use filters in profile pictures - i see it all over her social media - half the fuckers hating on her for using filters are using one themselves lol 

i tell you what she is great at doing - bringing out the hypocrisy of people 

the member does make some good points but also makes some massive judgments , i mean who is he to say she is not showing bravery etc ..its just his opinion 

I agree with everything you said here. Except I don't find them to be judging her. Just observing and trying to make sense of things respectfully, but also without the Stan goggles.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Alibaba said:

@Simonsays

I would hope that it is understood that it is implicit that what I write about is my opinion. What else would it be? I’m not presenting a historical list of events. I’m expressing my perception from my unique perspective. My opinion is always expressed from a place of intended honesty. I have been very consciously experiencing Madonna and her fanbase for 38 years. That gives me a certain insightfulness that is, in my opinion, worthy of being approached as coming from a place of integrity. In your posts, you expressed that you think some Madonna fans are resistant to the idea of her being overtly sexual at 64. Personally, I am not interested in this part of Madonna as it seems gratuitous and mindless to me. What is this fake construct we all have bought into that it is ageist to question why a person isn’t able to find greatness and beauty in aging? Isn’t there something off in that perspective? I won’t indict her ideas about self-image as I’m not in her head, but I can certainly observe the potential for perceived hypocrisy in her actions.  The many times she has stated her own revised disinterest in provocation for the sake of provocation leaves me questioning where she sees purpose in returning to that behavior late in her career. It might be more understandable if she followed a consistent narrative, but there isn’t one. For decades it was the journey from the wilderness to redemption, which by the time of Rebel Heart took on a more palpably collective tone in the form of talk of a spiritual revolution. Four years ago she was finding her way through the sea of nihilism in a world gone mad on the verge of destruction as Madame X. Perhaps the fact that we actually experienced radical societal shifts as the result of a global pandemic that robbed us of the illusions of freedom, exposed the hypocrisy of hegemony, and ultimately brought on a resurgence of saber rattling and war drums that put us closer to nuclear annihilation than ever before (Is all of that just an opinion too? Hmmm. I don’t know.) made her just say “Fuck it!”, and thus the constructed narrative ended. Unless she tells us what has been going on in her mind…unless she openly shares her feelings and thoughts on her physical and emotional struggles with injuries and pain…unless she intellectually reviews her career and sociocultural impact with honesty and objectivity, all we are left with are our opinions. But hopefully these are formed from experience and observation. 

This.

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Does anyone know what happened between Madonna and Tokischa that they have not been seen together lately. I had already excited about the possibility of a possible romance between them. But apparently this possible lesbian relationship was only a temporary instrument (just as the Kabalah or the war with Iraq were at the time) to promote this song Hung Up 2022 that, even if many do not want to admit it, has become the Madonna's most successful video in recent years because days after its premiere it is already close to 3 million views.

Madonna was definitely the one who gained the most from this "relationship" as she gained new Latin American fans and became a role model for many young women to see how a woman in her 80s can be sexual and promiscuous without caring about the opinion of society. I will definitely miss this self-destructive Madonna who made fun of herself and caused so much controversy among her own fans. I personally hope to see her in action again and maybe the new tour that is coming in 2023 will be the right time for it.

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3 hours ago, chaosmen1984mk said:

Does anyone know what happened between Madonna and Tokischa that they have not been seen together lately. I had already excited about the possibility of a possible romance between them. But apparently this possible lesbian relationship was only a temporary instrument (just as the Kabalah or the war with Iraq were at the time) to promote this song Hung Up 2022 that, even if many do not want to admit it, has become the Madonna's most successful video in recent years because days after its premiere it is already close to 3 million views.

Madonna was definitely the one who gained the most from this "relationship" as she gained new Latin American fans and became a role model for many young women to see how a woman in her 80s can be sexual and promiscuous without caring about the opinion of society. I will definitely miss this self-destructive Madonna who made fun of herself and caused so much controversy among her own fans. I personally hope to see her in action again and maybe the new tour that is coming in 2023 will be the right time for it.

It´s a beautiful video, she looks and sing amazing, it´s carefully done, I love it.

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11 hours ago, chaosmen1984mk said:

Does anyone know what happened between Madonna and Tokischa that they have not been seen together lately. I had already excited about the possibility of a possible romance between them. But apparently this possible lesbian relationship was only a temporary instrument (just as the Kabalah or the war with Iraq were at the time) to promote this song Hung Up 2022 that, even if many do not want to admit it, has become the Madonna's most successful video in recent years because days after its premiere it is already close to 3 million views.

Madonna was definitely the one who gained the most from this "relationship" as she gained new Latin American fans and became a role model for many young women to see how a woman in her 80s can be sexual and promiscuous without caring about the opinion of society. I will definitely miss this self-destructive Madonna who made fun of herself and caused so much controversy among her own fans. I personally hope to see her in action again and maybe the new tour that is coming in 2023 will be the right time for it.

Me too! I hope she does what SHE wants for the Greatest Hits Tour to stick it to the haters and the fans. Open with Frozen on Fire, close the main set with Material Gwoorrrllll, encore of Hung Up on Tokischa. Maybe have a Swae Lee trap remix of Vogue somewhere in there. 

What an incredible reinvention! The self-destructive era will certainly be missed!

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On 10/13/2022 at 12:31 PM, chaosmen1984mk said:

Does anyone know what happened between Madonna and Tokischa that they have not been seen together lately. I had already excited about the possibility of a possible romance between them. But apparently this possible lesbian relationship was only a temporary instrument (just as the Kabalah or the war with Iraq were at the time) to promote this song Hung Up 2022 that, even if many do not want to admit it, has become the Madonna's most successful video in recent years because days after its premiere it is already close to 3 million views.

Madonna was definitely the one who gained the most from this "relationship" as she gained new Latin American fans and became a role model for many young women to see how a woman in her 80s can be sexual and promiscuous without caring about the opinion of society. I will definitely miss this self-destructive Madonna who made fun of herself and caused so much controversy among her own fans. I personally hope to see her in action again and maybe the new tour that is coming in 2023 will be the right time for it.

Yes, I know what happened.

They were using each other to hype up the song and video.

The end.

Also, LOL at 'in her 80s'.

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