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Madonna & Tokischa - Hung Up Remix Music Video


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... and we are not talking about an entire album but about One song and this for many fans is enough to question her ability to make wonderful songs or to sentence irreparable damage to her legacy. If this is not extreme intolerance then someone tell me what to call this negative and overly dramatic attitude. Fortunately we are in a civilized society because in other parts of the world Madonna would already be being stoned to death for this unacceptable "mistake".

The video is simply a reflection of what Tokischa does, I think many would do well to see the background of this Dominican artist before criticizing and they will see that Madonna is only getting carried away by the style of this Dominican (something she never did with other guest artists by the way) with whom she has surely felt identified in the sense that, like her, she also speaks without hesitation about sex in her songs, defends minorities and makes fun of religion, all this in an extreme way and somewhat vulgar, vulgarity by the way that does not end up being negative if it is part of your lifestyle.

And just as divorce was created as a solution for those who stop loving or feeling interest or physical attraction towards their partner, many would do well to question their fanaticism towards Madonna and maybe make the decision to unfollow her and be a fan of another artist who makes the music or has the behavior they want and thus end this toxic fanaticism that only leads them to disrespect a woman by calling her crazy, vulgar, drunk, that her art is bad, that she looks like a clown, that they should put her in a straitjacket and lock her up in a mental hospital, that her children should have her legal custody, etc. Unacceptable comments seen in places where she is supposed to be loved, idolized and respected.

0aa904b2ed893eedd33e7750d5c6b86aeee.png.1d8c5568ebf25edbe0c1d483e21de8fc.png

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Pootz333 said:

I'm genuinely not trying to start with anyone in here. But for the people who keep saying "it's just one song", "it's just a few silly remixes"....for a lot of people it is not just that. They are talking about the switch that was flipped a couple of years ago and everything that's happened since. For some, it's since 2008. For others, 2012. For A LOT it's 2016- now. It's not just this video or one thing in particular. 

She’s been messy and something hasn’t been right since 2016. Rebel Heart seemed to be last era where she was truly Madonna and actually looked like Madonna. 

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I have come to learn that artists grow differently from the fans. That may alienate some of the fans, but to be fair as long as she’s coming up with music I don’t think it’s for us to demand it to be of a certain type

i was a very big alanis morissete fan. I loved how the emotions were put into music, it made me feel something. Do I resonate with her current meditation album? No. Does it erase her legacy that she did in the 90s? Absolutely not. I can ignore the things I don’t like and enjoy the things I like. 

this “new” Madonna will be not everyone’s cup of tea. Do I enjoy how she looks? Personally I don’t, but we still have the pictures she did I liked. Do I love the hung up remix? Absolutely, it’s so much fun. Will I look at the video again? Probably not, I personally think it’s tacky

I don’t understand the meltdowns. I feel like some people want to keep her doing things that are specifically tailored for them. If you don’t like it, move on, there’s always gonna be something next you’ll like. She’s famous for not repeating herself, she probably will not keep doing this trash thing forever. It’s just a (small) “era”

I personally am happy she’s releasing so much new stuff. Maybe I’m lucky because I like them, but I did not personally resonate with madame x and that’s fine.

 

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1 hour ago, Prayer said:

Genuine question:

Who decides what's "good" and "bad" art?

Isn't art one of the most subjective things in life?

*Not specifically aimed at you @Prayer but I thought it was a good question to respond to.*

I don't think this is the issue in this thread. Everyone has an opinion and should be able to express it. There's no arbiter of good or bad art.

I think the contention is over the right to express that opinion without being subjected to insults, shade, or, most egregiously, being labelled in some way to diminish them and their viewpoint.

No one should be deciding who is or isn't a good enough fan and advising them to leave the forum just because they don't like some of M's output. Constructive criticism is a good thing!

This video is obviously polarising, which should have brought out an interesting discussion about M's art, appreciation of art and our interpretations of the messages we think she's trying to convey. 

More objective discussion, less insults, petty comebacks and defensiveness. 

Anyway, here's my tongue-in-cheek interpretation of good vs bad art 😜

Hung Up:

54833da2dd626b4fe6db6c14998dd144.jpg.3874cff451a6cb6fec0f17405f0a9e0a.jpg

Hung Up On Tokischa:

3fd912ff7313959b6a9bf8b02bcaaf6f.thumb.jpg.e7163ecfcdf662f4b9422a0cc9797fa9.jpg

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17 minutes ago, MatterCompressor said:

*Not specifically aimed at you @Prayer but I thought it was a good question to respond to.*

I don't think this is the issue in this thread. Everyone has an opinion and should be able to express it. There's no arbiter of good or bad art.

I think the contention is over the right to express that opinion without being subjected to insults, shade, or, most egregiously, being labelled in some way to diminish them and their viewpoint.

No one should be deciding who is or isn't a good enough fan and advising them to leave the forum just because they don't like some of M's output. Constructive criticism is a good thing!

This video is obviously polarising, which should have brought out an interesting discussion about M's art, appreciation of art and our interpretations of the messages we think she's trying to convey. 

More objective discussion, less insults, petty comebacks and defensiveness. 

Anyway, here's my tongue-in-cheek interpretation of good vs bad art 😜

Hung Up:

54833da2dd626b4fe6db6c14998dd144.jpg.3874cff451a6cb6fec0f17405f0a9e0a.jpg

Hung Up On Tokischa:

3fd912ff7313959b6a9bf8b02bcaaf6f.thumb.jpg.e7163ecfcdf662f4b9422a0cc9797fa9.jpg

Hahaha, very:

restauraciones-Ecce-Homo_1660045071_1527

I agree with you, honestly. We all can and should express our opinion. Maybe I've been guilty of replying to people who didn't like the video, I'm sorry if the conversation got too heated some times in the previous pages.

It's just the "good art" and "bad art" argument I really have an issue with. To me it's all about personal preference and even timing, we all have moments not liking an album and then coming back years laters and finding it amazing.

I'm sure we can find a way of having an adult conversation about her work, cause ultimately, good or bad, that's what art is all about. :cute:

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3 hours ago, MattyMads said:

She’s been messy and something hasn’t been right since 2016. Rebel Heart seemed to be last era where she was truly Madonna and actually looked like Madonna. 

I'm not going to lie, after that era was when my eyebrows really started to go up. And not just about her. The entire world seemed to go upside down since then. But as far as she goes, I kind of get it though. I think she worked her ass off on RH. They should have let her do her double album concept. And as much as I love the leaks, she didn't. No matter what single/video she released, a different segment of the fanbase was annoyed about something. The fall at the Brits on top of it... It's enough to make most of us snap. And it's a shame cuz that era is full of classic M AND new M. I think the more time passes, it will be given more credit. Fantastic interviews that era too.

 

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1 hour ago, MatterCompressor said:

*Not specifically aimed at you @Prayer but I thought it was a good question to respond to.*

I don't think this is the issue in this thread. Everyone has an opinion and should be able to express it. There's no arbiter of good or bad art.

I think the contention is over the right to express that opinion without being subjected to insults, shade, or, most egregiously, being labelled in some way to diminish them and their viewpoint.

No one should be deciding who is or isn't a good enough fan and advising them to leave the forum just because they don't like some of M's output. Constructive criticism is a good thing!

This video is obviously polarising, which should have brought out an interesting discussion about M's art, appreciation of art and our interpretations of the messages we think she's trying to convey. 

More objective discussion, less insults, petty comebacks and defensiveness. 

Anyway, here's my tongue-in-cheek interpretation of good vs bad art 😜

Hung Up:

54833da2dd626b4fe6db6c14998dd144.jpg.3874cff451a6cb6fec0f17405f0a9e0a.jpg

Hung Up On Tokischa:

3fd912ff7313959b6a9bf8b02bcaaf6f.thumb.jpg.e7163ecfcdf662f4b9422a0cc9797fa9.jpg

Insults and teasing have nothing to do with constructive criticism and there has been plenty of that on this topic towards Madonna. I find it strange that you have not noticed it but you would also highlight it in your comment and just as you demand respect for the comments against the video (which I agree as long as they are not disrespectful) you would also demand the same for Madonna who has made this video with a lot of love and enthusiasm without imagining that many would question her credibility as an artist.

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4 minutes ago, ScottyX said:

I think the lyrics to the Rebel Heart song were all meant to be ironic now that we see what she's been putting out there the past couple years lol

I remind myself that Erotica to ROL was 6 years. AL to HC was 5 years. So she'll probably be a nun by 70. Tastefully voguing for intimate exclusive shows at the convent, of course.

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8 minutes ago, MadameX said:

You wrote a very long essay but the biggest problem with this long essay is that you wrote it not for real people but for imaginary enemies you created in your head.

The reason why so many fans, including myself, hate this video is not because we are conservative.

I don't care if Madonna perform naked on stage right now. If Madonna does it right.

Your fight will be as easy as black and white if you create an imagination of conservative imaginary humans in your head. 

But reality is This is not a matter of conservative vs progressive

It's a matter of Good quality vs Bad quality and a matter of done it right VS done it wrong.

That's the real problem here.

 

 

You nailed it :handsy:

 

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Something has to be at a certain level before it can be labeled art, its not like we are debating the merits of a newly released studio album or anything. Its a remix with a mediocre video. Anyone can go around claiming everything they put out is art no matter how shitty so I think its important to have some standard. We can debate if Madame X and the videos that went along with it are good or bad art because it justifies that discussion, this video does not. Nobody, and I mean nobody with any sense at all would call this Hung Up video a piece of art even if you enjoyed it.

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10 minutes ago, Enlightened Commenter said:

Something has to be at a certain level before it can be labeled art, its not like we are debating the merits of a newly released studio album or anything. Its a remix with a mediocre video. Anyone can go around claiming everything they put out is art no matter how shitty so I think its important to have some standard. We can debate if Madame X and the videos that went along with it are good or bad art because it justifies that discussion, this video does not. Nobody, and I mean nobody with any sense at all would call this Hung Up video a piece of art even if you enjoyed it.

You are too conservative and ageist to get it I’m afraid. You need to stop being a fan and move on. Real fans like everything she does.

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11 hours ago, chaosmen1984mk said:

... and we are not talking about an entire album but about One song and this for many fans is enough to question her ability to make wonderful songs or to sentence irreparable damage to her legacy. If this is not extreme intolerance then someone tell me what to call this negative and overly dramatic attitude. Fortunately we are in a civilized society because in other parts of the world Madonna would already be being stoned to death for this unacceptable "mistake".

The video is simply a reflection of what Tokischa does, I think many would do well to see the background of this Dominican artist before criticizing and they will see that Madonna is only getting carried away by the style of this Dominican (something she never did with other guest artists by the way) with whom she has surely felt identified in the sense that, like her, she also speaks without hesitation about sex in her songs, defends minorities and makes fun of religion, all this in an extreme way and somewhat vulgar, vulgarity by the way that does not end up being negative if it is part of your lifestyle.

And just as divorce was created as a solution for those who stop loving or feeling interest or physical attraction towards their partner, many would do well to question their fanaticism towards Madonna and maybe make the decision to unfollow her and be a fan of another artist who makes the music or has the behavior they want and thus end this toxic fanaticism that only leads them to disrespect a woman by calling her crazy, vulgar, drunk, that her art is bad, that she looks like a clown, that they should put her in a straitjacket and lock her up in a mental hospital, that her children should have her legal custody, etc. Unacceptable comments seen in places where she is supposed to be loved, idolized and respected.

0aa904b2ed893eedd33e7750d5c6b86aeee.png.1d8c5568ebf25edbe0c1d483e21de8fc.png

 

 

Bravo! You literally laid the gauntlet; made order in the court of public opinion...I couldn't agree more. And also with the statement that Art is subjective. Therefore, "none of this is real". Art is a reflection of your reality really 🤣🤣🤣 as we bring and listen to art that inspires us. Even once. It becomes part of our DNA. 

So whether you like it or not:

Madonna is Hung Up on Tokischa in your DNA. Its replicated. Its over. The End. 🤣

 

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He’s beeing sarcastic I presume

the point is: nobody’s forcing anybody to like it because you’re a fan. The thing is we have a 40+ thread of meltdowns and people declaring this is clear evidence of her decline, that they like her less now than the saw this, that hung up is ruined, etc. super dramatic lol

if you don’t like it that’s ok. It’s bad, we all know it. If you like the remix enjoy that. If not ignore the whole thing. 
 

I think the problem here is posting 10 times that it’s the worst thing ever. I really don’t understand how passionate people are about a random remix video lol 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Enlightened Commenter said:

Something has to be at a certain level before it can be labeled art, its not like we are debating the merits of a newly released studio album or anything. Its a remix with a mediocre video. Anyone can go around claiming everything they put out is art no matter how shitty so I think its important to have some standard. We can debate if Madame X and the videos that went along with it are good or bad art because it justifies that discussion, this video does not. Nobody, and I mean nobody with any sense at all would call this Hung Up video a piece of art even if you enjoyed it.

I disagree that we can just decide a music video is not art. There are paintings that are literally a red square in museums. Art takes on so many forms. Music videos are medium of art regardless of how an individual feels. Now, whether it is good or bad art is always a valid questions for the individual, group, and general populace. In a Latin Market, this video might be considered good but in a French market not so tasteful. All valid based upon cultural predispositions. I suppose our point on here is that our opinion on the art should be respected, but often our opinions are expressed aggressively. Some of us will like a lot of what she does and that is okay. Doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with us just as much as there’s nothing wrong with some not liking everything she does. We like what we like. 

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34 minutes ago, Diieeego said:

He’s beeing sarcastic I presume

the point is: nobody’s forcing anybody to like it because you’re a fan. The thing is we have a 40+ thread of meltdowns and people declaring this is clear evidence of her decline, that they like her less now than the saw this, that hung up is ruined, etc. super dramatic lol

Did anyone even say those things?

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