"Fight the real enemy!" - Thirty years ago Sinead O'Connor ripped up the photo of Pope John Paul II.. and Madonna reacted...

[androiduser 2,410]

On 3 October 1992, O'Connor appeared on Saturday Night Live as a musical guest. She sang an a cappella version of Bob Marley's "War", which she intended as a protest against sexual abuse of children in the Catholic Church, referring to child abuse rather than racism. She then presented a photo of Pope John Paul II to the camera while singing the word "evil", after which she tore the photo into pieces, said "Fight the real enemy", and threw the pieces towards the camera. The incident occurred nine years before John Paul II acknowledged the sexual abuse within the Church.

When Catholic-raised Madonna appeared later that season on SNL, after singing "Bad Girl", she held up a photo of Joey Buttafuoco and, saying "fight the real enemy", tore it up. Madonna also roundly attacked O'Connor in the press for the incident, telling the Irish Times: "I think there is a better way to present her ideas rather than ripping up an image that means a lot to other people."

[Blue Jean 15,129]

I was too young to follow this at the time but looking at the situation now I disagree with Madonna’s stance on it. Sinead made a very powerful and important statement there. I also think the Catholic church is pure evil the way they have covered these things up and even more recently so the fact the popes image “means a lot to a lot of people” is a load of bull dust to me. Maybe she feels differently about this now. Certainly she’s done her fair share of criticizing them.
 

I do think the parody she did was supposed to be light though and was more making fun of the media hoopla around Madonna’s comments than Sinéad herself. 
 

On a side note Sinéad has recently converted to Islam. I was watching a current interview the other day and she had some interesting things to say that is for sure. A very fascinating lady.

[RUADJAI 14,908]

2 hours ago, Blue Jean said:

I was too young to follow this at the time but looking at the situation now I disagree with Madonna’s stance on it. Sinead made a very powerful and important statement there. I also think the Catholic church is pure evil the way they have covered these things up and even more recently so the fact the popes image “means a lot to a lot of people” is a load of bull dust to me. Maybe she feels differently about this now. Certainly she’s done her fair share of criticizing them.
 

I do think the parody she did was supposed to be light though and was more making fun of the media hoopla around Madonna’s comments than Sinéad herself. 
 

On a side note Sinéad has recently converted to Islam. I was watching a current interview the other day and she had some interesting things to say that is for sure. A very fascinating lady.

I don’t think she was taking a “stance” on anything. I think it was probably the biggest news at the time (as well as the Amy Fisher story), she wanted to insert herself into it, and give a comedic, unexpected response. 
 

 

[androiduser 2,410]

34 minutes ago, RUADJAI said:

I don’t think she was taking a “stance” on anything. I think it was probably the biggest news at the time (as well as the Amy Fisher story), she wanted to insert herself into it, and give a comedic, unexpected response. 
 

 

but apparently, even before the Pope incident, M had some bad things to say about Sinead O'Connor and Sinead was hurt by the comments, because she expected Madonna to support other women.... but, as always, we can have the "dry humor" excuse and all.... or claim it didn't happen, Sinead was jealous, "using Madonna's name to get in the paper" (LOL) and so on... anyway:

Madonna is probably the hugest model for women in America. There’s a woman who people look up to as being a woman who campaigns for women’s rights. A woman who, in an abusive way toward me, said that I looked l had a run in with a lawnmower and that I was about as sexy as a venetian blind. Now there’s the woman that America looks up to as being a campaigner for women, slagging off another woman for not being sexy.

 

[ITG 3,321]

25 minutes ago, androiduser said:

but apparently, even before the Pope incident, M had some bad things to say about Sinead O'Connor and Sinead was hurt by the comments, because she expected Madonna to support other women.... but, as always, we can have the "dry humor" excuse and all.... or claim it didn't happen, Sinead was jealous, "using Madonna's name to get in the paper" (LOL) and so on... anyway:

Madonna is probably the hugest model for women in America. There’s a woman who people look up to as being a woman who campaigns for women’s rights. A woman who, in an abusive way toward me, said that I looked l had a run in with a lawnmower and that I was about as sexy as a venetian blind. Now there’s the woman that America looks up to as being a campaigner for women, slagging off another woman for not being sexy.

 

Where is the evidence that Madonna said this?

....it's not the untruth

[Blue Jean 15,129]

2 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

I don’t think she was taking a “stance” on anything. I think it was probably the biggest news at the time (as well as the Amy Fisher story), she wanted to insert herself into it, and give a comedic, unexpected response. 

Oh I agree. From what I can tell it started because the media in Ireland asked her about it and she commented. The media turned it into this big feud. So the SNL thing was really just playing up to that I think.

[Blue Jean 15,129]

1 hour ago, ITG said:

Where is the evidence that Madonna said this?

....it's not the untruth

I was watching videos of Sinead from back in the day recently and she was quite honestly drop dead gorgeous. She was very bold having her head shaven in those days and it seems back then most people couldn't get past that to see how stunning she really was.

And if Madonna really did say those things Sinead made a valid point. 

There is also an interesting story about Prince Sinead shared more recently that suggests that he was kind of abusive toward women and violent toward her. So I think that's something interesting that needs evaluation, the way he is so idolised now (and believe me I love Prince as an artist but he was no saint, we know that much....)

[Piksel8 619]

Considering this came up years after the blond ambition tour, Madonna went after the system of the catholic Church and conveyed her thoughts better than Sinnead in my opinion. Sinnead went after one single person who wasn't fully responsible for the ongoing sexual abuse within the church. for all we know, its been going for years before the Pope's reign and turnover. Pope JP himself did address the issue 9 years after, something that's been kept under the rug for so long. Maybe we have Sinnead's act that ended her career to thank for that.

[Blue Jean 15,129]

1 minute ago, Piksel8 said:

Considering this came up years after the blond ambition tour, Madonna went after the system of the catholic Church and conveyed her thoughts better than Sinnead in my opinion. Sinnead went after one single person who wasn't fully responsible for the ongoing sexual abuse within the church. for all we know, its been going for years before the Pope's reign and turnover. Pope JP himself did address the issue 9 years after, something that's been kept under the rug for so long. Maybe we have Sinnead's act that ended her career to thank for that.

The Pope was the head figure of the church though, he was perhaps not responsible for the crimes but he had a responsibility that was being neglected and its hard to not believe he was also involved in covering these things up.

And honestly these people in positions of power still cover these things up. Not just in religion but everywhere. (The British monarchy, the BBC with Jimmy Saville.) Even just  a few years ago Cardinal George Pell from Australia was hiding out at the Vatican during an abuse scandal/investigation.

 So no, people don't get a free pass sorry just because they didn't commit the act themselves.

[cyberrage 400]

Sinead was/is right and Madonna was wrong, she is human and doubt she would do the same now (or hope she wouldn't).

Sinead's book is a great read, or an even better listen. Her relationship with the church is hers alone and that picture was part of her story, not a generic pope pic.

[Piksel8 619]

7 minutes ago, Blue Jean said:

The Pope was the head figure of the church though, he was perhaps not responsible for the crimes but he had a responsibility that was being neglected and its hard to not believe he was also involved in covering these things up.

And honestly these people in positions of power still cover these things up. Not just in religion but everywhere. (The British monarchy, the BBC with Jimmy Saville.) Even just  a few years ago Cardinal George Pell from Australia was hiding out at the Vatican during an abuse scandal/investigation.

 So no, people don't get a free pass sorry just because they didn't commit the act themselves.

we have to take into account the US relations with the Vatican at this time as Reaghan just left office and handed it to Bush Sr. Reaghan was close to the Pope in the 80s and could've aided the cover up and extend it to Clinton and Bush Jr. Could've been a reason why SNL had to immediately wash their hands with low key jokes with Pesci and Madonna (they had to choose italians too) later and not take Sinead's side. Coincidentally, when the Pope did state the issue, it was after the 911 attacks when America was busy deciding to go to War. Thought I'm not taking the Pope's side nor supporting catholicism, but if the person had a clear conscience to make this right earlier, perhaps it wasn't done due to other barriers/conflicts that had been built between the 2 states in the past.

[Blue Jean 15,129]

15 minutes ago, Piksel8 said:

we have to take into account the US relations with the Vatican at this time as Reaghan just left office and handed it to Bush Sr. Reaghan was close to the Pope in the 80s and could've aided the cover up and extend it to Clinton and Bush Jr. Could've been a reason why SNL had to immediately wash their hands with low key jokes with Pesci and Madonna (they had to choose italians too) later and not take Sinead's side. Coincidentally, when the Pope did state the issue, it was after the 911 attacks when America was busy deciding to go to War. Thought I'm not taking the Pope's side nor supporting catholicism, but if the person had a clear conscience to make this right earlier, perhaps it wasn't done due to other barriers/conflicts that had been built between the 2 states in the past.

Interesting. I wouldn't put it past any of those American presidents to be involved in covering things like pedophilia up considering many of them are known to have rubbed shoulders with Jeffrey Epstein.

[Drownedboy 1,657]

Madonna was probably jelaous of Sinead being more controversial than she was but wanted to be in the circus nevertheless LOL. She was probably mad she was not the first one that did the picture thing on tv. 

Now it´s like she respected simbols that were important to so many people around the world LOL 

[PlayPause 2,675]

Different times, when media coverage was totally different to what it is today. I didn't remember the M answer on SNL one year later.

Bringing this up like this isn't necessary, unless you want to blame M for something but I don't see what.

The backlash Sinead suffered was extremely violent, and it ruined her career on many levels. Sexual violence and abuse in the church is still something many people don't want to hear about, and ongoing investigations show us that many church people were guilty or accomplices for years. Her call is still very valid.

I guess M opinion on religion wasn't very relevant in that period, after the backlash she endured herself and the fact that the Erotica era didn't have any religious influence. The SNL skit on Buttafoco is something that obviously doesn't make sense out of context. The Amy Fisher case was one of the world's biggest stories back then. 

[Ayham 5,474]

I just can't stand this weird person at all, the fact that she was the reason for her son's suicide makes me sick. & yes ripping an image of such a figure wasn't right... 

[Prayer 14,279]

I never thought about SNL giving her the "joke" and her just doing it - that's an interesting angle, thank you.

I just thought she was being supportive... in her strange sense of humor way. Kinda like the shoutouts to all the other popstars with the T-Shirt thing in the "Music" album promo era. She's always kinda passive-aggressive with things like that?

[TOpher 897]

2 hours ago, Ayham said:

 & yes ripping an image of such a figure wasn't right... 

😂 bull. The church has been murdering, raping, engaging in and covering up paedophilia and so forth for centuries. And it’s not right to rip up their figurehead’s picture. Get a grip

[PlayPause 2,675]

Joey Buttafoco was another macho who thought he could fuck a teenager, play with her feelings, manipulate her and get away with it. That's how I see M's take.

She referred to the Sinead moment as a criticism of the patriarchy, not to bring her down.

[RUADJAI 14,908]

12 hours ago, androiduser said:

but apparently, even before the Pope incident, M had some bad things to say about Sinead O'Connor and Sinead was hurt by the comments, because she expected Madonna to support other women.... but, as always, we can have the "dry humor" excuse and all.... or claim it didn't happen, Sinead was jealous, "using Madonna's name to get in the paper" (LOL) and so on... anyway:

Madonna is probably the hugest model for women in America. There’s a woman who people look up to as being a woman who campaigns for women’s rights. A woman who, in an abusive way toward me, said that I looked l had a run in with a lawnmower and that I was about as sexy as a venetian blind. Now there’s the woman that America looks up to as being a campaigner for women, slagging off another woman for not being sexy.

 

Madonna was not supportive of anyone besides herself at this time so I don't know why Sinead would expect anything from her. 

and no offense to Sinead, but she seems the type to be upset about most things in life. Looking to place blame every and anywhere. When it comes down to it, she didn't read the room, and she did a thing and didn't get her point across in the way she wanted. It probably would go down alot better today, but alas things are a product of their times and it fell flat. Its similar to the "protestors/fake protestors" throwing food on the Van Gough painting and super glueing their hands on it for climate change?... The general public think they look ridiculous and write it off and their point isn't taken seriously. Or Kanye blurting out that "George Bush doesnt care about black people"  while on Live TV for support for Hurricane Katrina victims. Both issues are serious and deserve attention and discussion, but the "stunts" aren't effective because the general public are... more interested in making jokes about shit, aren't concerned with serious issues, or being outraged. 

I honestly can't imagine if my job was to please the general public, it's so fickle... 20 years ago Bjork wore a swan dress that made her a joke for a decade... then Lady Gaga comes and wears a meat dress and everyone sucked her dick.

You have to have thick skin for the music business especially when you make to the territory that Sinead made it to with her one song. If your nudes get published without consent and people say your career is over you can freak out and fight and blame or you can say "so what". 

This is also why I didn't like the Janet documentary very much. Yeah ok, maybe radio stopped playing her after the Super Bowl... but the fact of the matter is... Damita Jo wasn't great... Then 20 Y.O. wasn't great... Feedback and Rock With U are amazing but the rest of Discipline is just OK.... and her last album was meh. This is from a hardcore Janet fan. She can try and frame the decline of her career on the Super Bowl debacle and the patriarchy if she wants to, but the truth is I stopped listening because the music wasn't there anymore. 

[Ziploc 2,566]

Sinead was attempting to bring a very serious issue into the public domain which is great but she did it in a way that had little impact aside from causing controversy. 

She clearly has serious mental issues and whatever she says should be taken with a pinch of salt. Is there any source for those insults from Madonna because I've never heard of them before. 

When someone seems to have a problem with most people they interact with, e.g. Prince, Madonna, Miley Cyrus, U2... you have to look for the common denominator. I mean, she even publicly blamed her own children for her suicide attempt. 

[cake 320]

The photo ripping incident was a huge deal. I was surprised by Madonna's reaction, her being the fallen catholic and all. Sinead bothered a lot of people in the 90s by being a hurt angry young woman who refused to be glamorous.. love her

[A. A. Aardvark 4,830]

"men had told me this really happened to them"

it's also meant to have been the photo of the pope
from above her Mothers bed



dominus vobiscom !

[Blue Jean 15,129]

6 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

Its similar to the "protestors/fake protestors" throwing food on the Van Gough painting and super glueing their hands on it for climate change?... The general public think they look ridiculous and write it off and their point isn't taken seriously. 

This is a good comparison. But I personally applaud those people doing that too. These kind of extreme protests cause a huge stir and while many people don’t get it I think in the longer term it’s more powerful than being subtle. It’s a protest after all not a polite discussion.

[Blue Jean 15,129]

6 hours ago, Lisa Powerhouse said:

Sinead was attempting to bring a very serious issue into the public domain which is great but she did it in a way that had little impact aside from causing controversy. 

She clearly has serious mental issues and whatever she says should be taken with a pinch of salt. Is there any source for those insults from Madonna because I've never heard of them before. 

When someone seems to have a problem with most people they interact with, e.g. Prince, Madonna, Miley Cyrus, U2... you have to look for the common denominator. I mean, she even publicly blamed her own children for her suicide attempt. 

I think it’s wrong though to disregard someone because of their mental health. If you watch recent interviews she seems to have really overcome those struggles and comes across a very intelligent woman. To say everything she said and did shouldn’t be taken seriously is really stigmatizing mental health I think.

[Blue Jean 15,129]

3 hours ago, cake said:

The photo ripping incident was a huge deal. I was surprised by Madonna's reaction, her being the fallen catholic and all. Sinead bothered a lot of people in the 90s by being a hurt angry young woman who refused to be glamorous.. love her

She’s cool.