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"Fight the real enemy!" - Thirty years ago Sinead O'Connor ripped up the photo of Pope John Paul II.. and Madonna reacted...


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7 hours ago, RUADJAI said:

This is also why I didn't like the Janet documentary very much. Yeah ok, maybe radio stopped playing her after the Super Bowl... but the fact of the matter is... Damita Jo wasn't great... Then 20 Y.O. wasn't great... Feedback and Rock With U are amazing but the rest of Discipline is just OK.... and her last album was meh. This is from a hardcore Janet fan. She can try and frame the decline of her career on the Super Bowl debacle and the patriarchy if she wants to, but the truth is I stopped listening because the music wasn't there anymore. 

Even if that’s the case she was still boycotted on radio, banned from the Grammys and ridiculed endlessly. Perhaps her popularity was set to decline  but there was still a massive backlash that effected her career. The publics reaction reeked of sexism and racism.

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21 hours ago, Lisa Powerhouse said:

Sinead was attempting to bring a very serious issue into the public domain which is great but she did it in a way that had little impact aside from causing controversy. 

She clearly has serious mental issues and whatever she says should be taken with a pinch of salt. Is there any source for those insults from Madonna because I've never heard of them before. 

When someone seems to have a problem with most people they interact with, e.g. Prince, Madonna, Miley Cyrus, U2... you have to look for the common denominator. I mean, she even publicly blamed her own children for her suicide attempt. 

So, what you're saying is that she's a nutcase that's not to be taken seriously due to her mental health issues?

And to say that her stunt had little impact? On what and whom exactly? Because the Church didn't crumble to pieces? But what about all those thousands of survivors of sexual abuse who have been shunned, shamed and silenced? Do you seriously think that didn't have any impact on them? What she did was more than brave. I think you highly underestimate and misinterpret the "controversy" and backlash that followed. People didn't want to hear it. They just didn't want to face the reality and unspoken truth.  We talk about "sexual violence" and "mental health issues" all the time because these are terms that can easily be brought up by the dinner table. What it really is, though, is rape and mental illness.

Sinéad herself is one of far too many people raped by the apparatus of institutionalised religion. Literally. To give a voice to the suffering of countless people, perhaps a bit of hope, a sense of representative visibility AND naming the root of all evil is never something to be taken with a pinch of salt. In fact, it should be applauded and treated with respect, regardless of one's psychiatric records, public struggle with trauma and whatever it is that makes you uncomfortable about it and made you say these heinous things.

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On 11/1/2022 at 12:19 AM, ITG said:

Where is the evidence that Madonna said this?

....it's not the untruth:thinker:

I remember reading the interview where the "sexy as a venetian blind" comment originated (can't remember where off the top of my head, probably the same interview as the lawnmower comment and the "better way of making her point" comments).  It's a real quote.

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On 11/1/2022 at 8:58 AM, Ayham said:

I just can't stand this weird person at all, the fact that she was the reason for her son's suicide makes me sick. & yes ripping an image of such a figure wasn't right... 

Sinead wasn't responsible for her son's suicide, that's ridiculous.  And it's now widely understood that her stance on Catholicism and her reasons for tearing up the Pope's photo was ahead of her time in exposing the many abuses within the church, which she has (to an extent) personal experience of.

Sorry, but this is a hugely ignorant opinion, and your statement that Sinead was somehow responsible in any way for her child's death is repugnant.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

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7 minutes ago, momosfantasy said:

Sinead wasn't responsible for her son's suicide, that's ridiculous.  And it's now widely understood that her stance on Catholicism and her reasons for tearing up the Pope's photo was ahead of her time in exposing the many abuses within the church, which she has (to an extent) personal experience of.

Sorry, but this is a hugely ignorant opinion, and your statement that Sinead was somehow responsible in any way for her child's death is repugnant.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

She literally said that, she felt somehow responsible about his death... you better do some searching. Xx

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3 hours ago, Ayham said:

She literally said that, she felt somehow responsible about his death... you better do some searching. Xx

The family and friends of suicide victims often carry a sense of guilt and responsibility, feeling that they somehow should have known, or that there could have been something said or a certain action taken that would have prevented the person's death.  That doesn't mean that they are actually responsible for anyone's suicide.

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What's even worse is when you feel that guilt and that person blames you, publicly, for it:

'Sinead slams her children, 28-year-old Jake, 19-year-old Roisin, 11-year-old Shane, eight-year-old Yeshua, and their fathers - claiming that they have not been supportive of her.

Writing to almost 598,000 Facebook followers, Sinead rants: “Jake, Roisin, Jr., frank, Donal, Eimear, I never wanna see you again. You stole my sons from me.

Then you had hypocrisy to come to hospital and then not be here when I wake and not pick up phone? I’m sh*t to you. You’re dead to me. You killed your mother. You stole my sons.

“You left me alone for twelve weeks! Why did I have to hear it was your hypocritical a*ses here while I was unconscious?? And now you’re Gone and not picking up phone?"'

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5 hours ago, momosfantasy said:

The family and friends of suicide victims often carry a sense of guilt and responsibility, feeling that they somehow should have known, or that there could have been something said or a certain action taken that would have prevented the person's death.  That doesn't mean that they are actually responsible for anyone's suicide.

Maybe she wasn't there for him when he needed her the most, I guess she was busy finding herself & changing religion... let's agree that she's not a normal person.

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45 minutes ago, Ayham said:

Maybe she wasn't there for him when he needed her the most, I guess she was busy finding herself & changing religion... let's agree that she's not a normal person.

She’s more normal than the majority of celebrities actually as she speaks her truth and is authentic.

Isn’t it strange we live in a world where Kris Jenner can profit off her own daughters sex tape and drug her bf on television, or Kim can sell products on the back of blatant lies and a fake persona/face/body yet people celebrate them as these incredible career women. Yet here we are in a thread questioning a woman who rightly spoke out against the Catholic Church 30 years ago.

This is something todays celebrity would NEVER do.

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1 hour ago, Blue Jean said:

She’s more normal than the majority of celebrities actually as she speaks her truth and is authentic.

Isn’t it strange we live in a world where Kris Jenner can profit off her own daughters sex tape and drug her bf on television, or Kim can sell products on the back of blatant lies and a fake persona/face/body yet people celebrate them as these incredible career women. Yet here we are in a thread questioning a woman who rightly spoke out against the Catholic Church 30 years ago.

This is something todays celebrity would NEVER do.

Yes it's strange world, Kris is totally different story lol... but at least she's a successful business woman. 

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Can we leave the Sinead O Connor discourse to rest, it has no place in this forum in the way it is being discussed without the context of growing up in Ireland in the 70s and 80s when the Catholic Church were not only abusive to children, but also had huge power over the government and the minds of the general population and ran 90% of the school system.

I do not know the O'Connor family personally, but I would imagine, having read Sinead's 2020 autobiography and understand the place from where she came, that like many families in this country, the systemic effects of the Catholic strangle-hold are still being felt to this day, unravelling in our society and institutions by way of community trauma, generational trauma, alcoholism and huge suicide rates among young men.

All of this on top of our centuries-long colonial history at the hands of the British monarchy has created a population, who in order to be heard, have to shout louder and without sugarcoating our words which can be difficult to swallow by a non-understanding world. We are a nation in the process of deep healing, great progress has been made in the last decade, but wounds are still raw.

Sinead never wanted to be a pop star, she is punk through and through. She has actively shed her wealth and fame to try and create balance in her life, giving the proceeds of the sale of her house to charity etc. Her traumas are deep and unfortunately on-going. She deserves respect, not mockery.

I am quite shocked with many of the unsympathetic and superficial comments in this thread and to be honest find them very triggering.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/1/2022 at 7:37 AM, Piksel8 said:

Considering this came up years after the blond ambition tour, Madonna went after the system of the catholic Church and conveyed her thoughts better than Sinnead in my opinion. Sinnead went after one single person who wasn't fully responsible for the ongoing sexual abuse within the church. for all we know, its been going for years before the Pope's reign and turnover. Pope JP himself did address the issue 9 years after, something that's been kept under the rug for so long. Maybe we have Sinnead's act that ended her career to thank for that.

The 'pope' is an axiom that various people have led their names. Madonna never said anything about vatican's sexual scandals. Her revolution was always on the safe side.

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1 hour ago, into the erotico said:

The 'pope' is an axiom that various people have led their names. Madonna never said anything about vatican's sexual scandals. Her revolution was always on the safe side.

No she didn't, that's why I said she went after the system. She aimed for the bigger picture instead of the big cheese.

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40 minutes ago, into the erotico said:

'..she went after the system..' if she really has done this, she would be long gone..

She obviously didn't do it like any other protestor would. Her being a pop artists, she did it in her own way... The burning crosses in LAP was probably the best example out there. That was her style, to shock and start the conversation.

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Madonna always wanted to make noise but at the same she was very concerned about selling records and being popular and being part of the stablishment, so she plays with fire but never get really burned, with the expection of 1992 and 1993, there she crossed the line really and it did affect her carreer and popularity. But she really take cared in order to this not happening anymore. That´s why in 2003 she retired the amazing video of American Life.

Sinead had her mental issues and although maybe she has been very right at some points, she never really gave a damn about success or anything, LOL Two totally different kind of persons.

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