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Why did Take a Bow miss the top ten in the UK? (#16)


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1 hour ago, Levon said:

Take a Bow is Babyface`s signature through and through and was the sound that the youth heard at the time. He was the hottest producer (Toni Braxton, Whitney Houston, Boyz II Men, Bobby Brown, Shanice) having just won three Grammys (now 12) with over 20 number 1 hits. You can replace Madonna's voice rather than Babyface`s sound and production from that song.

The fact that Take a Bow had massive success only in the few countries where Babyface and his sound were very popular speaks for itself and explains why the song didn't do so well outside North America.

While I agree TAB had that Babyface sound that was popular in the U.S. at the time, I wouldn't say it was Babyface FT. Madonna. It still had Madonna written all over it.  Madonna's vocals were an important reason why that song sounded so beautiful.  It wasn't just because it had Babyface's blueprint sound.  It's because the two came up with a gorgeous ballad that connected to the general public.  R&B Ballads were quite popular in the mid 90's.  Also, her previous ballads up to that point always did really well in the U.S., which wasn't always the case for her ballads outside of North America. 

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1 hour ago, tscott said:

While I agree, that TAB had that Babyface sound that was popular in the U.S. at the time, I wouldn't say it was Babyface FT. Madonna. It still had Madonna written all over it.  Madonna's vocals were an important reason why that song sounded so beautiful.  It wasn't just because it had Babyface's blueprint sound.  It's because the two came up with a gorgeous ballad that connected to the general public.  R&B Ballads were quite popular in the mid 90's.  Also, her previous ballads up to that point always did really well in the U.S., which wasn't always the case for her ballads outside of North America. 

The question "Why did Take a Bow miss the top ten in the UK?" should perhaps rather be: Why was Take a Bow so successful in the US - and less so in the rest of the world? After all, the song charted not so great almost everywhere outside North America.

R&B was blossoming (again) in the U.S. in 1994, while the rest of the world had little interest in it at that time. The reason Take a Bow was so well received in the U.S. was, that the song appealed to many young people who actually preferred to listen to hipper artists like Aaliyah, Toni Braxton, R. Kelly, Da Brat, SWV, Jodeci or Boyz II Men. The song seamlessly blended into the hottest urban radio stations playlists with its R&B sound.

The sound of Take a Bow was perfect for North America, but the rest of the (western) world preferred to listen to pop, rock ballads, eurodance and hip-hop in a pop sound. Probably outside North America remixes for Survival or Don't Stop would have been much better single alternatives. Maybe Take a Bow would have had much more impact if it had been the first single - even though I like Secret much better.

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37 minutes ago, Levon said:

The question "Why did Take a Bow miss the top ten in the UK?" should perhaps rather be: Why was Take a Bow so successful in the US - and less so in the rest of the world? After all, the song charted not so great almost everywhere outside North America.

R&B was blossoming (again) in the U.S. in 1994, while the rest of the world had little interest in it at that time. The reason Take a Bow was so well received in the U.S. was that the song appealed to young people who actually preferred to listen to hipper artists like Aaliyah, Toni Braxton, R. Kelly, Da Brat, SWV, Jodeci or Boyz II Men. The song seamlessly blended into the hottest urban radio stations playlists with its R&B sound.

The sound of Take a Bow was perfect for North America, but the rest of the (western) world preferred to listen to pop, rock ballads, eurodance and hip-hop in a pop sound. Probably outside North America remixes for Survival or Don't Stop would have been much better single alternatives. Maybe Take a Bow would have had much more impact if it had been the first single - even though I like Secret much better.

Yes, this makes so much sense.  You're right.  The sound she tapped into was very popular at the time in the U.S.  Most anything Babyface was connected to at the time became a hit.  The more I think about it, it probably was best she hopped on the Babyface sound later than most other artists.  That would have meant, she would have to compete with other artists that included him.  Also, R&B ballads were just huge during that time in the U.S.

In general, the most popular genre these days in the U.S. is  R&B/Hip Hop and Country music.  Madonna has always been connected to R&B roots since her early days, so it makes sense why she gravitates to working with more urban artists even today.  I know that annoys a lot of fans, but it's who she is.  And I'm sure there is a part of her is hoping that she can pop at least one more time in the U.S, being it is the biggest market to be successful in for any artist.

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53 minutes ago, PlayPause said:

Name a Barbra song from the 90s worth remembering before LOLling please.

A lot but probably not one that you saw on MTV between videos of Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera.

I meanT Barbra´s music has nothing in c´mon with Take a bow. The evita sountrack maybe, because of Andrew Lloyd Webber´s songs that Streisand has sung too (but not from Evita) the rest of M´s music not at all. Apples and oranges. The same for Take a bow, LOL.

But judging from your avatar, you´re a fan of the (quite mediocre, in my opinion) Erotica music, so I don´t expect you agreeing with me. Best regards.

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3 hours ago, tscott said:

Yes, this makes so much sense.  You're right.  The sound she tapped into was very popular at the time in the U.S.  Most anything Babyface was connected to at the time became a hit.  The more I think about it, it probably was best she hopped on the Babyface sound later than most other artists.  That would have meant, she would have to compete with other artists that included him.  Also, R&B ballads were just huge during that time in the U.S.

In general, the most popular genre these days in the U.S. is  R&B/Hip Hop and Country music.  Madonna has always been connected to R&B roots since her early days, so it makes sense why she gravitates to working with more urban artists even today.  I know that annoys a lot of fans, but it's who she is.  And I'm sure there is a part of her is hoping that she can pop at least one more time in the U.S, being it is the biggest market to be successful in for any artist.

Basically, Madonna tried to go one step further into R&B with Bedtime Stories than she did with Erotica.  She had a (more or less) secret relationship with rapper Tupac and his influence is strongly felt on the album - it's an almost typical R&B album of that time, if you ignore Bedtime Story and the somewhat poppy production of Survival and Don't Stop. Because of Madonna's "white pop image", Tupac's record company prevented him from collaborating with her, and they also urged him to break up with her because she was not good for his image as a hard rapper.

The demo of I'd Rather Be Your Lover with Tupac's rap shows what a collaboration would have sounded like. Her fans would probably have been as unenthusiastic about it as his fans were. Pop and R&B were usually strictly separated at that time. This made it difficult for radio programmers to categorize her new songs.

That's one reason why an R&B song like Take a Bow didn't fit into the broadcasting concept of European radio stations at the time - they didn't want urban music on their programs. They probably also didn't want the song to serve as a door opener for similar acts - but that was taken care of by newcomer Mariah Carey, who became increasingly popular in Europe at that time. Presumably, Take a Bow would have been received much more openly in Europe just a few months later. As a trendsetter, Madonna was probably a bit too early with her sound again.

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28 minutes ago, Levon said:

Basically, Madonna tried to go one step further into R&B with Bedtime Stories than she did with Erotica.  She had a (more or less) secret relationship with rapper Tupac and his influence is strongly felt on the album - it's an almost typical R&B album of that time, if you ignore Bedtime Story and the somewhat poppy production of Survival and Don't Stop. Because of Madonna's "white pop image", Tupac's record company prevented him from collaborating with her, and they also urged him to break up with her because she was not good for his image as a hard rapper.

The demo of I'd Rather Be Your Lover with Tupac's rap shows what a collaboration would have sounded like. Her fans would probably have been as unenthusiastic about it as his fans were. Pop and R&B were usually strictly separated at that time. This made it difficult for radio programmers to categorize her new songs.

That's one reason why an R&B song like Take a Bow didn't fit into the broadcasting concept of European radio station bosses - they didn't want urban music in their programs. They probably also didn't want the song to serve as a door opener for similar acts - but that was taken care of by newcomer Mariah Carey, who became increasingly popular in Europe at that time. Presumably, Take a Bow would have been received much more openly in Europe just a few months later. As a trendsetter, Madonna was probably a bit too early with her sound again.

She also hung out with a few other famous basketball players such as Dennis Rodman at the time, but I agree Tupac influence was definitely there.  And it's so true that the UK didn't start appreciating that R&B wave until later in 95 and 96.  It's probably why "Human Nature" fared better than Take A Bow.  It's amazing what a few months can do from region to region.  By the end of '95 and especially in '96, Babyface influence songs and his own started hitting the top ten in the UK.  By then, Eric Clapton and Whitney released their penned Babyface songs.  Meanwhile in the next year or two, US would spin back around to Pop again, specifically boy bands and pop princesses started to crop up such as Britney, Christina and Jessica Simpson.  Then there was the Spice Girls and the numerous boy bands like Backstreet Boys and Nsync.  

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1 hour ago, PlayPause said:

Name a Barbra song from the 90s worth remembering before LOLling please.

Well that's a loaded subjective question, so no matter how this is answered, you'll no doubt come back with your own opinion that it's not "worth remembering".   But I can name two memorable hits from her that became a top 10  in the mid 90's from her.  "Tell Him" and "I Finally Found Someone".  Both were huge radio hits across the globe. Both were nominated for Grammys and won numerous awards.  

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25 minutes ago, tscott said:

She also hung out with a few other famous basketball players such as Dennis Rodman at the time, but I agree Tupac influence was definitely there.  And it's so true that the UK didn't start appreciating that R&B wave until later in 95 and 96.  It's probably why "Human Nature" fared better than Take A Bow.  It's amazing what a few months can do from region to region.  By the end of '95 and especially in '96, Babyface influence songs and his own started hitting the top ten in the UK.  By then, Eric Clapton and Whitney released their penned Babyface songs.  Meanwhile in the next year or two, US would spin back around to Pop again, specifically boy bands and pop princesses started to crop up such as Britney, Christina and Jessica Simpson.  Then there was the Spice Girls and the numerous boy bands like Backstreet Boys and Nsync.  

Yes, the music changed very fast that time. In 1994 urban music was very rare on European charts and in 1995/96 the dam broke for R&B/rap with Coolio, Bobby Brown, Mariah, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Blackstreet, Nas, Fugees, Warren G, Toni Braxton, Luniz, Puff Daddy, B.IG., to name some.

Radio stations that had previously been opposed to urban music opened up to it. But at that time Madonna was already working again on a completely different direction with Ray of Light.

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10 minutes ago, tscott said:

Well that's a loaded subjective question, so no matter how this is answered, you'll no doubt come back with your own opinion that it's not "worth remembering".   But I can name two memorable hits from her that became a top 10  in the mid 90's from her.  "Tell Him" and "I Finally Found Someone".  Both were huge radio hits across the globe. Both were nominated for Grammys and won numerous awards.  

I Finally Found Someone : 1996

Tell Him : 1997

Tell Him was quite a hit I guess, but in no way it was targeted at the same radio stations and CD buyers as TAB.

Don't get me wrong, I never said that Barbra Streisand isn't a good singer or whatever. And yes, it is very subjective of me to think that her music in the 90s was boring, despite her talent.

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21 minutes ago, PlayPause said:

I Finally Found Someone : 1996

Tell Him : 1997

Tell Him was quite a hit I guess, but in no way it was targeted at the same radio stations and CD buyers as TAB.

Don't get me wrong, I never said that Barbra Streisand isn't a good singer or whatever. And yes, it is very subjective of me to think that her music from the 90s is boring, despite her talent.

You said name one 90's song. I gave you two.  Maybe it's not personally memorable to you, but those two songs of Barb's were commercially successfully for her.   Both songs sold just as much as Madonna's Take A Bow and got some healthy radio spins, specifically I Finally Found Someone.  Anyway, I personally don't feel Take A Bow or Barbra songs are anything alike.  I don't believe M and B necessarily have the same targeted audience, but in this case Barb's two songs appeal to a lot of the same general audience Madonna had at the time.  I'm sure a lot of that is due to Evita and Barb is known for these sort of type of big songs.  Lastly, I agree Barbara is boring, but that's my personal opinion.  Still, I can't deny the huge career, impact and success she's had over decades.  In fact, I'm sure Barb has a far more dedicated and faithful fan base than Madonna.

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Here in Australia, it missed the top 10 also despite being issued as 2 cd singles and giving away a large poster with each purchase - Warner Australia were then instructed to step it up for Bedtime Story and the album so we got the interview and heavy second promo campaign and Bedtime Story was issued as a gold cd single with bonus poster, left over Take A Bow posters were given away with the Bedtime Story cassette single etc 

I think for some reason TAB with it's BabyFace sound just didn't resonate with radio too much or Australian audiences.

 

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3 hours ago, Levon said:

 As a trendsetter, Madonna was probably a bit too early with her sound again.

Take a Bow was literally Babyface at the height of his fame, after so many hits he had with other artists.... she wasn't setting a trend, she was following a US trend that didn't yet do the trick in Europe.... she wasn't ahead of anyhting with Take a Bow.

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12 hours ago, PlayPause said:

 

Babyface RnB sounded VERY American / middle of the road radio / adult contemporary snooze.

 

Thank GOD she scrapped the demos she did with him for the following album, which  became Ray of Light... They literally started recording the same songs over again...

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45 minutes ago, androiduser said:

Take a Bow was literally Babyface at the height of his fame, after so many hits he had with other artists.... she wasn't setting a trend, she was following a US trend that didn't yet do the trick in Europe.... she wasn't ahead of anyhting with Take a Bow.

Babyface was hot in the U.S., but largely ignored outside North America. In Europe, there was little interest in R&B, especially Take a Bow. Danceable stuff worked much better there.

She was a trendsetter when she tried, as a white female pop star, to interest the general public - especially outside the USA - in R&B. Unfortunately, with rather modest success, because European radio, for example, hardly wanted to play urban music at that time.

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1 hour ago, Levon said:

Babyface was hot in the U.S., but largely ignored outside North America. In Europe, there was little interest in R&B, especially Take a Bow. Danceable stuff worked much better there.

She was a trendsetter when she tried, as a white female pop star, to interest the general public - especially outside the USA - in R&B. Unfortunately, with rather modest success, because European radio, for example, hardly wanted to play urban music at that time.

I'm glad she worked with Babyface, they produced two beautiful tracks for that album and the other demos I heard from them were just as beautiful.  Love to have them available officially.  Bedtime Stories is definitely her most underrated album. It's a gorgeous album. While Bedtime Story seems out of place on that album, the way it is sequenced the way it is, after Sanctuary, it totally worked.

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13 hours ago, animalinstinct said:

It got lost in the Christmas chart, when sales are really high. It actually sold more than bedtime story and that got to number 4. 

True but if you compare any christmas release to a non-christmas release the sales will always be higher. If it had been released post-xmas it wouldn't have sold as many copies as it did. 

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2 hours ago, tscott said:

I'm glad she worked with Babyface, they produced two beautiful tracks for that album and the other demos I heard from them were just as beautiful.  Love to have them available officially.  Bedtime Stories is definitely her most underrated album. It's a gorgeous album. While Bedtime Story seems out of place on that album, the way it is sequenced the way it is, after Sanctuary, it totally worked.

“Bedtime Stories” is absolutely luscious! I wish she’d do a mini-tour for it. The album even went to #1 on iTunes during the pandemic which wasn’t lost on her. She did one of those filter apps - Which Madonna Album Are You? - and she got “Bedtime Stories”. “Sanctuary” is eerily gorgeous. I think everything works on the album. It’s a mash-up of different sounds, different genres. It’s eclectic. “Survival” is a brilliant album opener!

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