AMERICAN LIFE at 20 : a flashback in real time via Mad-Eyes news archives

[Drum Dub 1,502]

Does somebody remember when around July/August 2002 a very low quality audio file from Die Another Day surfaced online? It was recorded from someone during the shooting of the video. The story said it was recorded behind a wall or a door from the set. Wonder if someone still have that file.

[Roland Barthes 4,662]

17 hours ago, Drum Dub said:

Does somebody remember when around July/August 2002 a very low quality audio file from Die Another Day surfaced online? It was recorded from someone during the shooting of the video. The story said it was recorded behind a wall or a door from the set. Wonder if someone still have that file.

they talk about it on madeyes (i did not screengrabbed it) i wonder if they still have that file hahah

[chaosmen1984mk 532]

I will only say that there is so much information about Madonna's career that it would take an encyclopedia to know everything that has happened to her since the beginning of her career. I wonder if this will also happen with other artists, I mean having a musical career as nuanced and rich in detail as Madonna's and we're only talking about the beginnings of a new era (American Life), then music videos, tours, photo shoots, interviews, new eras, movies, etc. would come.

As a fan, I recognize a certain ignorance regarding certain topics, but I hope with time to improve and increase my knowledge and increase my level of experience in everything related to the culture that this woman already represents and that is the cause of all of us being gathered in this forum despite our personal antipathies.

[Drum Dub 1,502]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:59 AM, Roland Barthes said:

they talk about it on madeyes (i did not screengrabbed it) i wonder if they still have that file hahah

Haha I would love to recover that file as a piece of memorabilia. It was very low Q, but gave us an idea about de style of the music, we were all excited and happy. It was the entire track, and by the end you could hear people from the crew giving directions.

[Kacper 198]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:18 PM, Roland Barthes said:

 

 

There is no song called Hollywood

I'm rolling with laughter 😂. That's why rumors should be taken with grain of salt. 

A lot of salt. 

[deathproof 9,124]

Surely whoever wrote that was taking the piss lol

[Roland Barthes 4,662]

On 3/25/2023 at 11:14 PM, deathproof said:

Surely whoever wrote that was taking the piss lol

I'm gonna check if there's a hidden track on my copy, well if that new anti piracy technology from 2003 has not erased in 24 hour that song about beheading the royal family.

[Fateseeker 1,175]

Beyond the Ice was another title thrown around at the time. 

[antigulag 22]

The historic record unequivocally proves that there was not, never was and never will be any controversy surrounding the American Life video. Nobody cared about it. All eyes were on Washington and the fake news from New York Times and the Washington Post that directly led to the war on Iraq. Nobody was worrying about being offended by her video and nobody criticized her for it. She chickened out because she is a careerist at heart and not an artist, and she censored herself betraying her famous "artistic integrity" and ending her career in the process. 

What happened was this: Madonna had a stellar career highpoint with Music and The Drowned World Tour, people cared and I saw with my own eyes young kids in groups playing Music all the way like it was the shit, which of course it was. But she was getting up there in age and inevitably the general public and the kids were about to move on from her. This is proven beyond any doubt by the lukewarm reaction to Die Another Day. 

Madonna NEEDED American Life to be a hit. The song on its own was never going to be a hit but with a stellar video, which she did, on heavy rotation on MTV she would have won back the young generation and been on top for another 10 years. She needed to release a video that was a major artistic statement. This was a time when music videos were the be all and end all of a hit single. This was not like some stupid moron Madonna fan said to me some years ago that videos still matter because Ariana Grande rocked the world with her awful God is a woman video, a) she didn't rock the world and b) the video was forgotten in a week.  Stupid PudWhacker on his blog called the leaked video the first viral video. Nobody cared. I don't know of a single person in 20 years that even knows of the existence of the American Life video. By contrast I see non fans remembering Nothing Really Matters for instance and constantly talking about it. 2003 was a very different time, a video could make or break a single and the fate of her career depended on the American Life video.

She ended up cancelling the video, the single flopped and OVERNIGHT Madonna became an old artist. OVERNIGHT. I saw it happening with my own eyes. Madonna gave the dictum that she was being persecuted at the time and the whole world was against her and she had to do it and the sheeples repeat her dictum to this day almost thirty years on but it is not what happened. 

It's also not true that she has had a succesful career since then, sure the tours sell gazzillions but that does not mean she has been an important artist in 20 years which of course she hasn't. She lost forever her introduction to a new generation and her status as a cutting edge figure forever and it rested on the cancellation of one video. She is so scared of releasing material on her own that for 20 years not only has she been following trends in a desperate way but she can't even release a lead single without HEAVILY relying on current stars(ABBA, Justin Timberlake, Niki Minaj, like a prayer style chorus, maluma) because she knows she won't even chart relying just on her name. The last 20 years have flopped harder than Cher's career and I do not see a "Believe" anywhere in the horizon. 

Now I don't give a fuck about sales, SHE does, I'm happy with her producing music but nothing that came after American Life can even be described as quality music and for all intents and purposes it's not good and hasn't stood the test of time. Hung Up is still being streamed because of ABBA, don't get it twisted. 

Now go ahead and ban me for the mortal sin of going against the all powerful Dictum, but one thing I learned from Madonna was to think for myself. Unfortunately it seems nobody else did.

[Drownedboy 1,130]

21 hours ago, antigulag said:

The historic record unequivocally proves that there was not, never was and never will be any controversy surrounding the American Life video. Nobody cared about it. All eyes were on Washington and the fake news from New York Times and the Washington Post that directly led to the war on Iraq. Nobody was worrying about being offended by her video and nobody criticized her for it. She chickened out because she is a careerist at heart and not an artist, and she censored herself betraying her famous "artistic integrity" and ending her career in the process. 

What happened was this: Madonna had a stellar career highpoint with Music and The Drowned World Tour, people cared and I saw with my own eyes young kids in groups playing Music all the way like it was the shit, which of course it was. But she was getting up there in age and inevitably the general public and the kids were about to move on from her. This is proven beyond any doubt by the lukewarm reaction to Die Another Day. 

Madonna NEEDED American Life to be a hit. The song on its own was never going to be a hit but with a stellar video, which she did, on heavy rotation on MTV she would have won back the young generation and been on top for another 10 years. She needed to release a video that was a major artistic statement. This was a time when music videos were the be all and end all of a hit single. This was not like some stupid moron Madonna fan said to me some years ago that videos still matter because Ariana Grande rocked the world with her awful God is a woman video, a) she didn't rock the world and b) the video was forgotten in a week.  Stupid PudWhacker on his blog called the leaked video the first viral video. Nobody cared. I don't know of a single person in 20 years that even knows of the existence of the American Life video. By contrast I see non fans remembering Nothing Really Matters for instance and constantly talking about it. 2003 was a very different time, a video could make or break a single and the fate of her career depended on the American Life video.

She ended up cancelling the video, the single flopped and OVERNIGHT Madonna became an old artist. OVERNIGHT. I saw it happening with my own eyes. Madonna gave the dictum that she was being persecuted at the time and the whole world was against her and she had to do it and the sheeples repeat her dictum to this day almost thirty years on but it is not what happened. 

It's also not true that she has had a succesful career since then, sure the tours sell gazzillions but that does not mean she has been an important artist in 20 years which of course she hasn't. She lost forever her introduction to a new generation and her status as a cutting edge figure forever and it rested on the cancellation of one video. She is so scared of releasing material on her own that for 20 years not only has she been following trends in a desperate way but she can't even release a lead single without HEAVILY relying on current stars(ABBA, Justin Timberlake, Niki Minaj, like a prayer style chorus, maluma) because she knows she won't even chart relying just on her name. The last 20 years have flopped harder than Cher's career and I do not see a "Believe" anywhere in the horizon. 

Now I don't give a fuck about sales, SHE does, I'm happy with her producing music but nothing that came after American Life can even be described as quality music and for all intents and purposes it's not good and hasn't stood the test of time. Hung Up is still being streamed because of ABBA, don't get it twisted. 

Now go ahead and ban me for the mortal sin of going against the all powerful Dictum, but one thing I learned from Madonna was to think for myself. Unfortunately it seems nobody else did.

Impresive post and many valid points, really.

[Prayer 9,086]

22 hours ago, antigulag said:

The historic record unequivocally proves that there was not, never was and never will be any controversy surrounding the American Life video. Nobody cared about it. All eyes were on Washington and the fake news from New York Times and the Washington Post that directly led to the war on Iraq. Nobody was worrying about being offended by her video and nobody criticized her for it. She chickened out because she is a careerist at heart and not an artist, and she censored herself betraying her famous "artistic integrity" and ending her career in the process. 

What happened was this: Madonna had a stellar career highpoint with Music and The Drowned World Tour, people cared and I saw with my own eyes young kids in groups playing Music all the way like it was the shit, which of course it was. But she was getting up there in age and inevitably the general public and the kids were about to move on from her. This is proven beyond any doubt by the lukewarm reaction to Die Another Day. 

Madonna NEEDED American Life to be a hit. The song on its own was never going to be a hit but with a stellar video, which she did, on heavy rotation on MTV she would have won back the young generation and been on top for another 10 years. She needed to release a video that was a major artistic statement. This was a time when music videos were the be all and end all of a hit single. This was not like some stupid moron Madonna fan said to me some years ago that videos still matter because Ariana Grande rocked the world with her awful God is a woman video, a) she didn't rock the world and b) the video was forgotten in a week.  Stupid PudWhacker on his blog called the leaked video the first viral video. Nobody cared. I don't know of a single person in 20 years that even knows of the existence of the American Life video. By contrast I see non fans remembering Nothing Really Matters for instance and constantly talking about it. 2003 was a very different time, a video could make or break a single and the fate of her career depended on the American Life video.

She ended up cancelling the video, the single flopped and OVERNIGHT Madonna became an old artist. OVERNIGHT. I saw it happening with my own eyes. Madonna gave the dictum that she was being persecuted at the time and the whole world was against her and she had to do it and the sheeples repeat her dictum to this day almost thirty years on but it is not what happened. 

It's also not true that she has had a succesful career since then, sure the tours sell gazzillions but that does not mean she has been an important artist in 20 years which of course she hasn't. She lost forever her introduction to a new generation and her status as a cutting edge figure forever and it rested on the cancellation of one video. She is so scared of releasing material on her own that for 20 years not only has she been following trends in a desperate way but she can't even release a lead single without HEAVILY relying on current stars(ABBA, Justin Timberlake, Niki Minaj, like a prayer style chorus, maluma) because she knows she won't even chart relying just on her name. The last 20 years have flopped harder than Cher's career and I do not see a "Believe" anywhere in the horizon. 

Now I don't give a fuck about sales, SHE does, I'm happy with her producing music but nothing that came after American Life can even be described as quality music and for all intents and purposes it's not good and hasn't stood the test of time. Hung Up is still being streamed because of ABBA, don't get it twisted. 

Now go ahead and ban me for the mortal sin of going against the all powerful Dictum, but one thing I learned from Madonna was to think for myself. Unfortunately it seems nobody else did.

While I agree that the video debacle changed her career forever, in my opinion you're rewriting history in some points:

- "No one cared about it": it's simply not true. It was all over the news back then. There was incredible hype about it before, during and after. And of course what happened to the Dixie Chicks was all over the news as well, and surely that "helped" in Madonna's decision to pull back the video in the end.

- "Lukewarm reaction to Die Another Day": again, not true. "Swept Away" was a PR disaster, that is true and her cameo in the "Die Another Day" movie was also not that well received. But the song was a hit everywhere: US Top 10, Top 3 in the UK and Top 5 and Top 10 everywhere else (except for France, #15). "Die Another Day" was simply not a flop single - it was a hit.

- Which takes me to the next point: "Madonna NEEDED American Life to be a hit". Well, there was no reason to believe it wouldn't be. "Music", "Don' Tell Me", "Die Another Day", all hits, "DAD" only 6 months before.

- "It's also not true that she has had a succesful career since then". She literally had one of her biggest hits ever with "Hung Up", two years later. "Hung Up" WAS her "Believe". "Confessions" was another huge era for her cause she managed to get to the next generation by doing something she had never done before, in 2003: she released a duet single and video - Britney. That was damage control. While "Me Against The Music" was not the big hit everyone expected, it helped her big time to have a successful era next. With "Confessions On A Dance Floor" she was on top of the world again, for a brief period of time, yes, but she did.

I must say I share your love for the "American Life" album and think it's one of her peaks creatively.

[tscott 2,052]

3 minutes ago, Prayer said:

While I agree that the video debacle changed her career forever, in my opinion you're rewriting history in some points:

- "No one cared about it": it's simply not true. It was all over the news back then. There was incredible hype about it before, during and after. And of course what happened to the Dixie Chicks was all over the news as well, and surely that "helped" in Madonna's decision to pull back the video in the end.

- "Lukewarm reaction to Die Another Day": again, not true. "Swept Away" was a PR disaster, that is true and her cameo in the "Die Another Day" movie was also not that well received. But the song was a hit everywhere: US Top 10, Top 3 in the UK and Top 5 and Top 10 everywhere else (except for France, #15). "Die Another Day" was simply not a flop single - it was a hit.

- Which takes me to the next point: "Madonna NEEDED American Life to be a hit". Well, there was no reason to believe it wouldn't be. "Music", "Don' Tell Me", "Die Another Day", all hits, "DAD" only 6 months before.

- "It's also not true that she has had a succesful career since then". She literally had one of her biggest hits ever with "Hung Up", two years later. "Hung Up" WAS her "Believe". "Confessions" was another huge era for her cause she managed to get to the next generation by doing something she had never done before, two years before: she released a duet single and video - Britney. While "Me Against The Music" was not the big hit everyone expected, it helped her big time to have a successful era next. With "Confessions On A Dance Floor" she was on top of the world again, for a brief period of time, yes, but she did.

Pretty much agree.  Also I like to add that the younger generation was already jumping ship with the "Music" release after it had been out for awhile.  I even had a personal experience on a bus full of teens on a school field trip back in 2000.  The bus had a radio playing and "Music" came on, and to my shock, the kids were like, "Uggggh, change the channel" and made disparaging remarks about her. Now I realize this could be considered "anecdotal" , but for me that is when I really felt Madonna wasn't meshing with the younger generation.  It did surprise me because up to that point, I knew the song was a huge hit and thought everyone was in love with it.  Of course, I was a delusional fan to think that, but it seemed from that point on, I saw Madonna was struggling to win over the public in the U.S. with her music.  Even Confessions singles struggled as radio was hesitant to play her singles.  But I was getting mixed signals because MTV still played "Hung Up" and "Sorry" a lot on U.S. MTV.  Europe was still on board with the singles and it definitely was her last real big smash.  The last time I really felt public support for a Madonna song in the U.S. is for "4 Minutes" and that was mainly because Justin Timberlake was part of it.  Then in 2012, there was a brief interest in Madonna simply because of the Superbowl performance, but the public wasn't having any of the new music.   

[androiduser 1,302]

4 hours ago, Prayer said:

- "No one cared about it": it's simply not true. It was all over the news back then. There was incredible hype about it before, during and after. And of course what happened to the Dixie Chicks was all over the news as well, and surely that "helped" in Madonna's decision to pull back the video in the end.

 

The American Life "controversy" is completely overblown by Madonna herself and the fans.... you'd struggle to find any relevant articles discussing the topic. There were a few loud opinions because we were already well into the Internet era, and everyone had an opinion about everything, but it was nowhere as big as Madonna and the fans would like to think. The biggest controversy was that it was arguably Madonna's weakest lead single.

[MPowered 3,310]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:57 PM, Roland Barthes said:

As a reminder regarding that "demos" cd, all the leaked American Life sessions demos that have leaked are registered and nowhere are the ones mentionned on that cd.  Process and Can't You See My Mind both have separate registrations than Xstatic Process and Die Another Day. Here are all the Mirwais unreleased (officially) registered tracks with Madonna from various sources of legal registration (Sacem, BMI, Biem)

 

You know that song registrations can be done by anyone right? There have been numerous cases where fans registered fake collabs with other artists.

Also: SEE the right? Many of these are riddled with typos. 😅

[Drownedboy 1,130]

I agree that Die another day was a hit, yes, but I agree at the moment it felt that the reception was colder than expected, after the success of Amerian pie, Beautiful stranger, ROL, Music and Drowned world. But it also must be said that although the video and the song itself are amazing, it´s not an easy song for the mainstream.

[Prayer 9,086]

6 hours ago, androiduser said:

The American Life "controversy" is completely overblown by Madonna herself and the fans.... you'd struggle to find any relevant articles discussing the topic. There were a few loud opinions because we were already well into the Internet era, and everyone had an opinion about everything, but it was nowhere as big as Madonna and the fans would like to think. The biggest controversy was that it was arguably Madonna's weakest lead single.

She was even on Fox News at some point:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/apr/11/popandrock.artsfeatures

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125227&page=1

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/02/arts/madonna-cites-war-and-pulls-her-video.html

https://nypost.com/2003/04/01/madonna-video-could-explode/

https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/madonna-american-life-revisit-8359092/

[Prayer 9,086]

1 hour ago, Drownedboy said:

I agree that Die another day was a hit, yes, but I agree at the moment it felt that the reception was colder than expected, after the success of Amerian pie, Beautiful stranger, ROL, Music and Drowned world. But it also must be said that although the video and the song itself are amazing, it´s not an easy song for the mainstream.

Personally I don't think the reception to "Die Another Day" was colder. If anything, her public image in general was suffering after the "Swept Away" flop. For the first time since 1998, her cool untouchable persona was in danger.

The song got mixed reviews, that's true, but commercially it was a success.

[androiduser 1,302]

3 hours ago, Prayer said:

 

 

most of these are just reports about Madonna pulling the video and talking about it.... the "controversy" was self-created... the surrounding narrative makes it seem like there were mass protests and riots

[Prayer 9,086]

3 minutes ago, androiduser said:

most of these are just reports about Madonna pulling the video and talking about it.... the "controversy" was self-created... the surrounding narrative makes it seem like there were mass protests and riots

There can be a controversy about something without riots and people burning stuff on the streets, you know.

Denying there was hype and controversy in 2003 around the "American Life" original video - originally created/pushed by the label or not - it's a little silly. You only need to check the news archives back then to see it for yourself.

[androiduser 1,302]

4 minutes ago, Prayer said:

There can be a controversy about something without riots and people burning stuff on the streets, you know.

Denying there was hype and controversy in 2003 around the "American Life" original video - originally created/pushed by the label or not - it's a little silly. You only need to check the news archives back then to see it for yourself.

it was all self-created by Madonna, and she's been pushing the narrative that it was a major controversy for years... the only fact is that the lead single was weak and there was no saving it.

one of the articles you linked even says that the idea that anyone would be offended by the video is ridiculous.

[Prayer 9,086]

7 minutes ago, androiduser said:

it was all self-created by Madonna, and she's been pushing the narrative that it was a major controversy for years... the only fact is that the lead single was weak and there was no saving it

She's been pushing what narrative exactly? While she's talked about the "Erotica" and "SEX" era many times and all the "punishment" that came with it, she's never talked about the "American Life" era in the same way, except for 2004 when she said about using the video on the "Re-Invention Tour": "I think we can all agree now than going to war maybe was not the best idea" and then using the song and the video on the "Madame X Tour" for the first time in... 15 years.

She's never talked about it in a self pity way. She just pulled the video and never looked back.

[androiduser 1,302]

3 minutes ago, Prayer said:

She's been pushing what narrative exactly? While she's talked about the "Erotica" and "SEX" era many times and all the "punishment" that came with it, she's never talked about the "American Life" era in the same way, except for 2004 when she said about using the video on the "Re-Invention Tour": "I think we can all agree now than going to war maybe was not the best idea" and then using the song and the video on the "Madame X Tour" for the first time in... 15 years.

She's never talked about it in a self pity way. She just pulled the video and never looked back.

she talked about ""the album being deemed anti-American"... she tried to construct the narrative that there was a major controversy and that she was under major fire for doing something brave.... when in fact, the song and the album merely underperformed.... the whole era was built on trying to claim the album is something it wasn't ..... it didn't even have any anti-war songs, the topic of the album is fame. anyway... sure....whatever... major controversy... anti war album....

[Drownedboy 1,130]

It´s interesting if you listen ROL, American life and MDNA, it seems that these albums are made by 3 different people LOL DO the rest of the artists change so much from an era to another?

[androiduser 1,302]

1 hour ago, Drownedboy said:

It´s interesting if you listen ROL, American life and MDNA, it seems that these albums are made by 3 different people LOL DO the rest of the artists change so much from an era to another?

I would say that most artists don't.... they either write and produce their own material on their own, without outside collaborators, or they work with the same team all the time, so there is not much change in either scenario... Madonna's sound changes with each producer, who brings their own sound.

[Roland Barthes 4,662]

Reading her interviews from back then, she was not very likable, very preachy. 

The album is not anti war, the video was, but the album, at least the first two singles, are very critical of american culture and its values which at the time, wartime, was considered by some to be anti american and everything perceived to be anti american then was heavily criticized. I can't forget how ridiculous freedom fries were and it's a testimony of how nuts some americans became after 9/11. I remember Fox News having a round table about stripping her from her american citizenship. They kept repeating that the album was made with a french afghani producer but mostly they really painted her as anti american. Some were saying stuff like "if she does not like it here she can go back to England where she belongs now since it's so much better than here", something Gwyneth Paltrow also got but that had more to do with how snotty they sounded in interviews, praising England over the USA. She sounded like she was looking down on americans (and maybe she was). The album however is more about a midlife crisis. It did not help that a month after criticizing american materialism she bought an estate in Beverly Hills for a gazillion $, made a commercial for Gap and had Love Profusion being promoted jointly with an Estée Lauder campaign. It made her look like a hypocrite. I like the album art but it has little to do with the content. Maybe with the single but not the whole album. It's also sophisticated pop, which had very little to do with the fluffy and trash pop in the charts at the time. It was also an album her own fans had a hard time to adjust to. The tone is very somber and conflicted.