AMERICAN LIFE at 20 : a flashback in real time via Mad-Eyes news archives

[tscott 2,054]

10 hours ago, Prayer said:

She's been pushing what narrative exactly? While she's talked about the "Erotica" and "SEX" era many times and all the "punishment" that came with it, she's never talked about the "American Life" era in the same way, except for 2004 when she said about using the video on the "Re-Invention Tour": "I think we can all agree now than going to war maybe was not the best idea" and then using the song and the video on the "Madame X Tour" for the first time in... 15 years.

She's never talked about it in a self pity way. She just pulled the video and never looked back.

All your posts are spot on.  I recall that the conservative news outlets were all over Madonna at the time.  In fact, Bill O'Reilly did a segment on his show devoted to her 'original' American Life video.   Even though, it was pulled, he acted as if it was being released and she was "anti-American".  He totally dismissed the fact she decided to pull the original video in light of the looming war and out of courtesy of soldiers.  When she was doing her campaign rounds for the album, she spoke about in why she chose to pull it.  She did not make more of it, because she actually understood the consequences of releasing such a video.  She recognize she had to think of her family, her children at the time.  A lot of fans may assume she made a mistake in not going ahead in releasing the video, but she had the good sense to know it wasn't the time to do so, even though her message was pretty spot on.  But if Billy O'Rellly could make a stink about the video when it was was pulled, imagine what sort of crap she would have suffered if she didn't pull it.  Though, I doubt MTV would have played it at the time anyway. 

[Prayer 9,086]

24 minutes ago, tscott said:

All your posts are spot on.  I recall that the conservative news outlets were all over Madonna at the time.  In fact, Bill O'Reilly did a segment on his show devoted to her 'original' American Life video.   Even though, it was pulled, he acted as if it was being released and she was "anti-American".  He totally dismissed the fact she decided to pull the original video in light of the looming war and out of courtesy of soldiers.  When she was doing her campaign rounds for the album, she spoke about in why she chose to pull it.  She did not make more of it, because she actually understood the consequences of releasing such a video.  She recognize she had to think of her family, her children at the time.  A lot of fans may assume she made a mistake in not going ahead in releasing the video, but she had the good sense to know it wasn't the time to do so, even though her message was pretty spot on.  But if Billy O'Rellly could make a stink about the video when it was was pulled, imagine what sort of crap she would have suffered if she didn't pull it.  Though, I doubt MTV would have played it at the time anyway. 

Thank you! 

She had to pull it, simple as that. There was no other way. The whole thing and timing were unfortunate and I'm sure her intentions were good in the beginning and she really wanted to create a discussion around it about war, fame, etc. (and of course a little controversy never hurt her - until then - right?) but the fact that the war ended up starting BEFORE the due date of the video premiere really changed it all. It would have been seen as a cheap cashing-in and her using the war to promote her single. And she got a lot of heat for pulling it, but it would have been way worse if she hadn't. Plus she had a family and it could affect them too.

I remember the video was due to be premiered in Europe on March 31 (Monday) and the US a day later, April 1st (happy 20th anniversary to this whole drama, by the way XD). She ended up cancelling the whole thing that Tuesday but in Europe we got it on Monday as planned. I remember watching it on MTV that Monday (it lasted a single day on air) and while I loved the video of course, it just didn't feel right. The timing was simply off. Two weeks or a month before it would have been acceptable.

[tscott 2,054]

30 minutes ago, Prayer said:

Thank you! 

She had to pull it, simple as that. There was no other way. The whole thing and timing were unfortunate and I'm sure her intentions were good in the beginning and she really wanted to create a discussion around it about war, fame, etc. (and of course a little controversy never hurt her - until then - right?) but the fact that the war ended up starting BEFORE the due date of the video premiere really changed it all. It would have been seen as a cheap cashing-in and her using the war to promote her single. And she got a lot of heat for pulling it, but it would have been way worse if she hadn't. Plus she had a family and it could affect them too.

I remember the video was due to be premiered in Europe on March 31 (Monday) and the US a day later, April 1st (happy 20th anniversary to this whole drama, by the way XD). She ended up cancelling the whole thing that Tuesday but in Europe we got it on Monday as planned. I remember watching it on MTV that Monday (it lasted a single day on air) and while I loved the video of course, it just didn't feel right. The timing was simply off. Two weeks or a month before it would have been acceptable.

It was the right thing to do, by pulling it.  In fact, I'm sure Madonna was persuaded to pull it, for some time, before she caved in and agreed to do so.  My hope is that she knew it was not a good time to release the video.  At the same time, the video seemed to be on point, when looking back.  But just because it is, doesn't mean it should be released.  We saw what happened to the Dixie Chicks when lead singer made disparaging remarks (our of the country, mind you) regarding President Bush.  And while I agree with her sediment, it was met with a lot of opposition and threats.  Their lives were very much in danger for some time after those remarks.  So whether we think Madonna should have released it or not, if she did, she would have suffered the same fate as The Dixie Chicks if not worse.  Why put her family through that?  And we saw the conservative media go after her anyway, when she decided to pull it still.  As stated, the timing wasn't right. 

[androiduser 1,302]

Madonna also had a family two years later when there was a much bigger controversy surrounding the Live to Tell performance on the cross, and she didn't back down then. There was literally a bomb threat in Amsterdam over that performance.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-30275999.html

And there were actual physical protests in Russia.

The American Life controversy was overblown. No bomb threats, no protests.

[Prayer 9,086]

New article today from Billboard discussing the "American Life" video's 20th anniversary, with new Jonas Åkerlund comments:

https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/madonna-american-life-video-what-went-wrong-1235300950/

He says now that the pair was mostly focused on the question “Is this really the best way to prove a point?” He continues: “And it’s the first and only time I’ve seen her go, like, Well, maybe it’s not. Maybe we’re wrong.”

Months of hard work notwithstanding, Åkerlund still believes pulling it was the right move: “Those weeks when we were supposed to release the video, it really felt wrong … just the way we did it.”

So he confirms what some of us thought: that it all had changed at the moment of finally releasing the video and it just didn't feel right to do it.

Thanks @f78k!

[Pootz333 2,185]

At that point she should have just done a cover of "You're A Grand Old Flag" with Thunderpuss and called it a day. 

I've said this a million times here but if she had released Hard Candy during this time period, it would have been huge.

I love this album and its off the wall era to death though.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 2:43 AM, Prayer said:

She was even on Fox News at some point:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/apr/11/popandrock.artsfeatures

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125227&page=1

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/02/arts/madonna-cites-war-and-pulls-her-video.html

https://nypost.com/2003/04/01/madonna-video-could-explode/

https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/madonna-american-life-revisit-8359092/

This doesn't prove anything. Madonna was still the most famous woman in the world, of course she was going to get the coverage, but this level of coverage never happened again because American Life ended her career. Also, this coverage was the result of Music. You're only as good as your last movie they say in the film industry, that doesn't completely apply to Madonna but cancelling the American Life video set the flames of the Hindenburg of her career, it's just a fact. The coverage for her next project was far less enthusiastic or numerous.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:23 PM, Prayer said:

While I agree that the video debacle changed her career forever, in my opinion you're rewriting history in some points:

- "No one cared about it": it's simply not true. It was all over the news back then. There was incredible hype about it before, during and after. And of course what happened to the Dixie Chicks was all over the news as well, and surely that "helped" in Madonna's decision to pull back the video in the end.

- "Lukewarm reaction to Die Another Day": again, not true. "Swept Away" was a PR disaster, that is true and her cameo in the "Die Another Day" movie was also not that well received. But the song was a hit everywhere: US Top 10, Top 3 in the UK and Top 5 and Top 10 everywhere else (except for France, #15). "Die Another Day" was simply not a flop single - it was a hit.

- Which takes me to the next point: "Madonna NEEDED American Life to be a hit". Well, there was no reason to believe it wouldn't be. "Music", "Don' Tell Me", "Die Another Day", all hits, "DAD" only 6 months before.

- "It's also not true that she has had a succesful career since then". She literally had one of her biggest hits ever with "Hung Up", two years later. "Hung Up" WAS her "Believe". "Confessions" was another huge era for her cause she managed to get to the next generation by doing something she had never done before, in 2003: she released a duet single and video - Britney. That was damage control. While "Me Against The Music" was not the big hit everyone expected, it helped her big time to have a successful era next. With "Confessions On A Dance Floor" she was on top of the world again, for a brief period of time, yes, but she did.

I must say I share your love for the "American Life" album and think it's one of her peaks creatively.

Let me reply in good faith, although it's impossible to debate with people who don't want to see the truth. I'm not saying you don't want to see the truth but I most Madonna fans don't want to see the truth. First some disclosure, I came in late as a fan, in 1999 but she was still enjoying at the time the same fame and position she always had, as the supreme arbitrer of culture and I remember constat Madonna moments  coming not from fans but from regular people: "did you see her last video with the strippers??", "omg I've just seen the most repulsive thing in my life, her james bond video", "she's so modest on that last video(American Pie", countless moments. Madonna was "in the air", everywhere and all the time, it is a fact.

As to your points: 

"it was all over the news", that is partly true. Her upcoming American Life video was on the news but not as the main story and not in a scandalous way. People had a war to worry about. The tabloids like the Daily Mail mentioned the video was gory and political but this didn't gain traction, I am not lying, read the screengrabs posted. Before she cancelled the video not one reporter mentioned any possible controversy to her, only one, the australian reporter and she answered with hidden but real shock "tell me whyyyyy" as if this was the first time anyone in her camp had dared to suggest there would be trouble, and it probably was the first time. After she cancelled the video, which again, nobody cared, ET, E! news mentioned it, again not as their top story and with the angle of her decision being shocking if there was any shock and not about the video itself. For comparison, the Dixie Chicks controversy got more urgency and coverage than American Life era.

- Swept Away was a huge bomb but not in the way Who's That Girl or Shanghai Surprise were, most people didn't even know Swept Away existed specially since the theatrical release was cancelled outside of America, it did not affect her career, I didn't say Die Another Day was a flop but it did not cause the impact of Music or Don't Tell Me, it was not a hit in my opinion. 

- "Hung Up" was most definitely not Madonna's Believe. Now there is nothing cool about being a "Believe", sure I love Believe the song and album and it is the highest selling single by a female but like everything Cher does it has "uncool" written all over it, it's basically a one hit wonder song that sold a huge lot but nobody cares, remembers or swears by. So it's actually best for Madonna to not have a "Believe" because her music actually endures. By mentioning Believe I meant that I don't see any chart comeback for her. Also, I've said this before and nobody wants to accepted but Confessions was NOT the mammoth era everyone makes it out to be. Hung Up is not even in the top 40 of the highest selling singles, and every other single flopped. It also didn't win her any new generational fans, that shipped sailed when she cancelled the American Life video. The Confessions Tour impressed a lot of non fans who saw it on cable but it didn't convert anyone. 

I disagree with her association with Britney earning her new fans. The VMAs was huge news and I had my heart on my throat looking at it because it was so exciting but the coverage went away quickly and for the first time in her life it made her look like a latcher on and in a way she said it herself, "passing the baton" on Oprah. If the objective was to remain relevant, sharing the stage with two women barely out of her teens made her look older. 

The key takeaway is this: 

Madonna is a legend but wether by chance or design, "momentum" was a huge part of her career, the expectation of what came next, what single, what hairstyle, etc. Now this is not to deny the greatness of her work, a lot of it has endured but its success always relied on Momentum, specially after she hit 30. No other popstar had hit 30 and remained successful. When she cancelled the American Life video she lost momentum for the first time and it stopped her career on its tracks. She became a "mom and dad" artist OVERNIGHT. It's a fact. She became U2, someone the kids will not touch. 

Would she have achieved momentum had the American Life video been released? Maybe she would have lost it anyway, who knows, but it was a pivotal moment and she needed to come out guns ablazing literally and figuratively and she didn't.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:11 AM, androiduser said:

it was all self-created by Madonna, and she's been pushing the narrative that it was a major controversy for years... the only fact is that the lead single was weak and there was no saving it.

one of the articles you linked even says that the idea that anyone would be offended by the video is ridiculous.

I don't agree that the single was weak but the narrative was completely self created, absolutely agree. In the real world absolutely nobody cared. When the video leaked online, nobody cared and it most definitely was not the first viral video like Mor"nWhacker loves to peddle.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:29 AM, Drownedboy said:

It´s interesting if you listen ROL, American life and MDNA, it seems that these albums are made by 3 different people LOL DO the rest of the artists change so much from an era to another?

They are a trilogy of spiritual awakening. They perfectly flow into each other, proven with the Drowned World tour, her most cohesive.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:18 AM, Prayer said:

She's been pushing what narrative exactly? While she's talked about the "Erotica" and "SEX" era many times and all the "punishment" that came with it, she's never talked about the "American Life" era in the same way, except for 2004 when she said about using the video on the "Re-Invention Tour": "I think we can all agree now than going to war maybe was not the best idea" and then using the song and the video on the "Madame X Tour" for the first time in... 15 years.

She's never talked about it in a self pity way. She just pulled the video and never looked back.

There have been many fake Madonna narratives throughout the years and the most persistant is that "everyone was oppressed in the 80's and 90's, I was persecuted for being a woman, I had to release SEX to liberate everyone and I got punished" she pushes that to this day and it is an absolute cardinal sin to even question it among fans but it is all bullshit. Also, American Life is her second Erotica. She was delusional in both and it lead to career ending consequences. She barely survived the first one, she didn't the second one.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:11 PM, tscott said:

All your posts are spot on.  I recall that the conservative news outlets were all over Madonna at the time.  In fact, Bill O'Reilly did a segment on his show devoted to her 'original' American Life video.   Even though, it was pulled, he acted as if it was being released and she was "anti-American".  He totally dismissed the fact she decided to pull the original video in light of the looming war and out of courtesy of soldiers.  When she was doing her campaign rounds for the album, she spoke about in why she chose to pull it.  She did not make more of it, because she actually understood the consequences of releasing such a video.  She recognize she had to think of her family, her children at the time.  A lot of fans may assume she made a mistake in not going ahead in releasing the video, but she had the good sense to know it wasn't the time to do so, even though her message was pretty spot on.  But if Billy O'Rellly could make a stink about the video when it was was pulled, imagine what sort of crap she would have suffered if she didn't pull it.  Though, I doubt MTV would have played it at the time anyway. 

If she wanted to protest the war there was no better time than releasing the video when she was going to. Her explanations for pulling it do not make sense and never did.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:25 PM, Prayer said:

Thank you! 

She had to pull it, simple as that. There was no other way. The whole thing and timing were unfortunate and I'm sure her intentions were good in the beginning and she really wanted to create a discussion around it about war, fame, etc. (and of course a little controversy never hurt her - until then - right?) but the fact that the war ended up starting BEFORE the due date of the video premiere really changed it all. It would have been seen as a cheap cashing-in and her using the war to promote her single. And she got a lot of heat for pulling it, but it would have been way worse if she hadn't. Plus she had a family and it could affect them too.

I remember the video was due to be premiered in Europe on March 31 (Monday) and the US a day later, April 1st (happy 20th anniversary to this whole drama, by the way XD). She ended up cancelling the whole thing that Tuesday but in Europe we got it on Monday as planned. I remember watching it on MTV that Monday (it lasted a single day on air) and while I loved the video of course, it just didn't feel right. The timing was simply off. Two weeks or a month before it would have been acceptable.

She could have sent all the profits of the single to the veterans. Better yet, release a video single and give the profits to the veterans. 

There was no reason to pull the video. She did it out of cynical self-preservation, a constant in her life, it just so happens that this time it ended her career.

[tscott 2,054]

12 hours ago, antigulag said:

If she wanted to protest the war there was no better time than releasing the video when she was going to. Her explanations for pulling it do not make sense and never did.

You obvioulsy don't understand the impact and consequences that would have happened if she did.  She did the right thing at the time.  Sometimes, we have to realize there is a time and a place to make a point.  She realizes that it wasn't a time to do so when the US was at a point where many questioned what was going on. If she continued down that path, she would have suffered far worse than the CHICKS did.  Whether we agree she was right or not, it wasn't the right time.  I'm glad she pulled it because she would have suffered far worse criticism, blacklistings and threats.

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:05 PM, tscott said:

It was the right thing to do, by pulling it.  In fact, I'm sure Madonna was persuaded to pull it, for some time, before she caved in and agreed to do so.  My hope is that she knew it was not a good time to release the video.  At the same time, the video seemed to be on point, when looking back.  But just because it is, doesn't mean it should be released.  We saw what happened to the Dixie Chicks when lead singer made disparaging remarks (our of the country, mind you) regarding President Bush.  And while I agree with her sediment, it was met with a lot of opposition and threats.  Their lives were very much in danger for some time after those remarks.  So whether we think Madonna should have released it or not, if she did, she would have suffered the same fate as The Dixie Chicks if not worse.  Why put her family through that?  And we saw the conservative media go after her anyway, when she decided to pull it still.  As stated, the timing wasn't right. 

You are just repeating and parroting the narrative dictum. What happened to the Dixie Chicks was nowhere near Madonna's situation, nobody cared about the video as they did with what the Dixie Chicks said, which I have to say, the Dixie Chicks are not famous outside of America. There was no reason for her to pull a worldwide release for what happened to the Dixie Chicks, specially when everyone knew the video lampooned war criminal Bush before it even got released and it did not generate the backlash the Dixie Chicks did. 

Madonna and the fan community rabidly hate American conservatives but when it comes to American Life you all sound like priests bowing down to the sacrosant figure of war criminal Bush. The things Madonna does now, how she defiles the American presidency and saying she wanted to bomb it, rhetorical I know but an insanely crass comment, just doesn't make sense when contrasted with the constant reverance to her ill-fated decision of not releasing American Life in order to "not offend". 

[antigulag 22]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:43 PM, androiduser said:

Madonna also had a family two years later when there was a much bigger controversy surrounding the Live to Tell performance on the cross, and she didn't back down then. There was literally a bomb threat in Amsterdam over that performance.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-30275999.html

And there were actual physical protests in Russia.

The American Life controversy was overblown. No bomb threats, no protests.

That's because the Live to Tell and MDNA controversies later, threatened her life and family but not her sales 😂😂😂😂

[antigulag 22]

5 minutes ago, tscott said:

Because you don't understand the impact and consequences that would have happended if she did.  She did the right thing at the time.  Sometimes, we have to realize there is a time and a place to make point.  She realizes that it wasn't a time to do so when the US was at a point where many questioned what was going on. If she continued down the path, she would have suffered far worse than the CHICKS did.  Whether we agree she was right or not, it wasn't the time. 

You're wrong. Agree to disagree.

[antigulag 22]

On 4/11/2023 at 3:10 PM, Prayer said:

New article today from Billboard discussing the "American Life" video's 20th anniversary, with new Jonas Åkerlund comments:

https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/madonna-american-life-video-what-went-wrong-1235300950/

He says now that the pair was mostly focused on the question “Is this really the best way to prove a point?” He continues: “And it’s the first and only time I’ve seen her go, like, Well, maybe it’s not. Maybe we’re wrong.”

Months of hard work notwithstanding, Åkerlund still believes pulling it was the right move: “Those weeks when we were supposed to release the video, it really felt wrong … just the way we did it.”

So he confirms what some of us thought: that it all had changed at the moment of finally releasing the video and it just didn't feel right to do it.

Thanks @f78k!

This is a revisionist article. Many Madonna fans have grown up and became reporters and now peddle The Dictums: "Erotica is her best album", "American Life was a huge controversy", "Confessions is her most successful era", "She liberated society from sex shame".

These new fan reporters working in the media are as fake and as lying as all the 80's and 90's writers who tried to maliciously convince the public that she wasn't talented. They are no different.

[kesiak 2,690]

9 hours ago, antigulag said:

This is a revisionist article. Many Madonna fans have grown up and became reporters and now peddle The Dictums: "Erotica is her best album", "American Life was a huge controversy", "Confessions is her most successful era", "She liberated society from sex shame".

These new fan reporters working in the media are as fake and as lying as all the 80's and 90's writers who tried to maliciously convince the public that she wasn't talented. They are no different.

You're right, an opinion of a newbie with 20 posts to their name holds more gravitas than a Billboard article... 

[antigulag 22]

8 hours ago, kesiak said:

You're right, an opinion of a newbie with 20 posts to their name holds more gravitas than a Billboard article... 

my account may be a newbie but my brain is not. Billboard is a garbage publication that had zero credibility today. So sad that you cannot decide for yourself and has to follow whatever crap Billboard peddles.

[BuggedOut 2,295]

The Chicks went on to win Album of the Year at the Grammys after their boycott.

I have nothing but respect for them.

[Roland Barthes 4,663]

Oh, IT created another account to troll the site. How many there are now ? Like 6 or 10 ? Poor little no life qanon :/

[antigulag 22]

14 hours ago, Roland Barthes said:

Oh, IT created another account to troll the site. How many there are now ? Like 6 or 10 ? Poor little no life qanon :/

don't know what you are talking about but you sound like a stooge threatened by free speech.