BILLBOARD: ‘Maybe We’re Wrong’: When Madonna Got Cold Feet Over Her ‘American Life’ Video

[Pootz333 2,684]

Guy Ritchie had a lot to do with all this too and no one can convince me otherwise.

And after reading what she had been going through with Warner (Amazing vs. Impressive Instant, the lack of old hits on DWT, GHV2, Maverick lawsuit) I said in another thread that they wanted her to fail to "put her back in her place". And well....it worked. Damn near immediately she went into damage control and you know what? She did a pretty great job tbh. A lot of other artists would not have survived it. 

Very unpopular opinion: I don't like when this album and era are compared to Madame X. I know different strokes for different folks but Madame X is just nowhere near this album FOR ME.

It's not her most iconic video but it's her most important.  The best ending is the one without Bush, where the grenade lands on the runway and the audience gasps. Its all fun and games til it lands on your doorstep. Brilliant. Perfection.

And I do agree that to a certain extent after this she just said "(ah!-) fuck it (ah!-)".

[Sultrysully 2,865]

The most controversial thing that Madonna has ever done is "stick around"... so her artistic rebellion has not departed.  

[deathproof 10,555]

50 minutes ago, Pootz333 said:

Guy Ritchie had a lot to do with all this too and no one can convince me otherwise

It’s mentioned in the article lol

[Robertthenurse 2,894]

Great read!!

[Donna 16,120]

1 hour ago, Pootz333 said:

Guy Ritchie had a lot to do with all this too and no one can convince me otherwise.

If the article didn't tip you off, the fact his wife made a controversial video that endangered their children, him and the "Missus"; I'd think he had every right to put his foot down.  

Quote

And after reading what she had been going through with Warner (Amazing vs. Impressive Instant, the lack of old hits on DWT, GHV2, Maverick lawsuit) I said in another thread that they wanted her to fail to "put her back in her place". And well....it worked. Damn near immediately she went into damage control and you know what? She did a pretty great job tbh. A lot of other artists would not have survived it.

This sounds too "conspiracy theory" nonsense.  Her record company wouldn't want her record to fail.  Also, she did a lot of promo for American Life.  Not that it helped, but Warner flipped the bill for that, and probably was hoping by getting her out there, performing the crap out of the tracks could turn things around.  Hell, she was even doing radio shows and performing at record shops.  Something she hadn't done since the beginning of her career. 

[Rory 856]

Now looking forward to getting the American Life - Mixshow Mix EP on April 22 for RSD23! 

Also the nod to God Control makes me want to listen to Madame X again.

[Lorx 344]

7 hours ago, Pootz333 said:

Guy Ritchie had a lot to do with all this too and no one can convince me otherwise.

And after reading what she had been going through with Warner (Amazing vs. Impressive Instant, the lack of old hits on DWT, GHV2, Maverick lawsuit) I said in another thread that they wanted her to fail to "put her back in her place". And well....it worked. Damn near immediately she went into damage control and you know what? She did a pretty great job tbh. A lot of other artists would not have survived it. 

Very unpopular opinion: I don't like when this album and era are compared to Madame X. I know different strokes for different folks but Madame X is just nowhere near this album FOR ME.

It's not her most iconic video but it's her most important.  The best ending is the one without Bush, where the grenade lands on the runway and the audience gasps. Its all fun and games til it lands on your doorstep. Brilliant. Perfection.

And I do agree that to a certain extent after this she just said "(ah!-) fuck it (ah!-)".

Yes, AL is just on another level than Madame X, without taking anything away from MX, which has good songs and is more inspired than the previous two records. But AL is much more cohesive, with no trashy songs in between.
I would have edited a version where before the end of the video in the audience you see Bush lighting his cigarette with the grenade and then the ending where the grenade goes toward the audience. Because I always loved both scenes.
 

[MaDöner Kebab 6,866]

I love American Life (single, album & video) but I think pulling the video from airing and making it available elsewhere (like the JML video) would have been the right choice. Either that or going with a song that could have gotten her actual stance more accurately across.

"Intervention" could have done well with a video that deals with a war veteran coming home to his family and suffering from PTSD. Something like that. The song is very AC and a video of that sort probably would have pissed off less people while still managing to send a message of peace.

[MaDöner Kebab 6,866]

3 minutes ago, Lorx said:

Yes, AL is just on another level than Madame X, without taking anything away from MX, which has good songs and is more inspired than the previous two records. But AL is much more cohesive, with no trashy songs in between.
I would have edited a version where before the end of the video in the audience you see Bush lighting his cigarette with the grenade and then the ending where the grenade goes toward the audience. Because I always loved both scenes.
 

Is it? I think, overall, Rebel Heart had a far more consistent thought and concept than anything on Madame Clown without having to sacrifice good melodies and production.

The problem with MX is that most of the songs on that album sound half-baked, with a poorly done vocoder effect on the vocals that ended up sounding like failed pitch-correction. The melodies on 90% of the songs are not elaborate or witty enough to make a good song. It’s just…not well-executed. Don’t get me wrong…Rebel Heart is far from perfect but at least the majority of the songs on that album sound better than the majority from MX or MDNA.

[Lorx 344]

1 minute ago, MPowered said:

Is it? I think, overall, Rebel Heart had a far more consistent thought and concept than anything on Madame Clown without having to sacrifice good melodies and production.

The problem with MX is that most of the songs on that album sound half-baked, with a poorly done vocoder effect on the vocals that ended up sounding like failed pitch-correction. The melodies on 90% of the songs are not elaborate or witty enough to make a good song. It’s just…not well-executed. Don’t get me wrong…Rebel Heart is far from perfect but at least the majority of the songs on that album sound better than the majority from MX or MDNA.

Rebel heart is a record of potential chart hits. 
But it has no idea behind it, in fact I see it as a collection of songs from different projects.
Certainly if I had to average the votes I would give to individual songs RH would win. And I agree that Madame X is spoiled by that horrible vocoder that ruined the ballads. Because if on I Don't Search I Find it can fit, on Extreme Occident or Killers Who Are Partying it doesn't fit at all. In fact, it takes the soul out of songs that would have been perfect with clean vocals.

Nevertheless, I still prefer it to Rebel Heart. The production and musical quality of Madame X's best songs surpasses any of Rebel Heart's songs. I think of Killers, I think of Extreme Occident or I Don't Search I Find. 
It may be that I prefer the experimentation and when she deviates from pop over her more purely pop songs. And Rebel Heart is her most pop record ever.

And MDNA is her worst record ever imho.

[MaDöner Kebab 6,866]

12 minutes ago, Lorx said:

Rebel heart is a record of potential chart hits. 
But it has no idea behind it, in fact I see it as a collection of songs from different projects.
Certainly if I had to average the votes I would give to individual songs RH would win. And I agree that Madame X is spoiled by that horrible vocoder that ruined the ballads. Because if on I Don't Search I Find it can fit, on Extreme Occident or Killers Who Are Partying it doesn't fit at all. In fact, it takes the soul out of songs that would have been perfect with clean vocals.

Nevertheless, I still prefer it to Rebel Heart. The production and musical quality of Madame X's best songs surpasses any of Rebel Heart's songs. I think of Killers, I think of Extreme Occident or I Don't Search I Find. 
It may be that I prefer the experimentation and when she deviates from pop over her more purely pop songs. And Rebel Heart is her most pop record ever.

And MDNA is her worst record ever imho.

Okay, so maybe you didn’t bother watching her interviews from that time but Rebel Heart was created to have 2 SIDES. It was a dual album but Interscope denied her wishes and when everything leaked they just slapped everything onto the 6 track EP as appendix.

The final track list is not representative of Madonna’s vision for the album. She explicitly said the album had two sides. The rebel side with her renegade, IDGAF and controversial songs and the heart side that had romantic and apocalyptic ballads. The main inspiration behind most of the songs was Joan of Arc and the medieval warrior princess vibes definitely runs through the album, sonically.

I dare you to listen to the album in this order. I promise you, it will be a different experience and won’t end up sounding disjointed:

1. Iconic
2. Veni Vidi Vici
3. Illuminati
4. Bitch I'm Madonna
5. Unapologetic Bitch
6. Best Night
7. S.E.X.
8. Holy Water
9. Inside Out
10. Rebel Heart
11. Joan of Arc
12. Body Shop
13. Devil Pray
14. Ghosttown
15. Messiah
16. HeartBreakCity
17. Living for Love
18. Hold Tight
19. Wash All Over Me

1-9 REBEL

10-19 HEART

Now, speaking of disjointedness. How exactly does MX have a "concept" when there are extreme genre shifts with dated-ass house tracks like IDSIF on the same album as COVERS like Faz Gostoso, Bitch I'm Loca and then songs like Future. There is definitely less consistency and quality on MX than on Rebel Heart and I’m sick of people trying to pretend like Rebel Heart isn’t the best album to have come out during the Interscope era.

[Lorx 344]

15 minutes ago, MPowered said:

Okay, so maybe you didn’t bother watching her interviews from that time but Rebel Heart was created to have 2 SIDES. It was a dual album but Interscope denied her wishes and when everything leaked they just slapped everything onto the 6 track EP as appendix.

The final track list is not representative of Madonna’s vision for the album. She explicitly said the album had two sides. The rebel side with her renegade, IDGAF and controversial songs and the heart side that had romantic and apocalyptic ballads. The main inspiration behind most of the songs was Joan of Arc and the medieval warrior princess vibes definitely runs through the album, sonically.

I dare you to listen to the album in this order. I promise you, it will be a different experience and won’t end up sounding disjointed:

1. Iconic
2. Veni Vidi Vici
3. Illuminati
4. Bitch I'm Madonna
5. Unapologetic Bitch
6. Best Night
7. S.E.X.
8. Holy Water
9. Inside Out
10. Rebel Heart
11. Joan of Arc
12. Body Shop
13. Devil Pray
14. Ghosttown
15. Messiah
16. HeartBreakCity
17. Living for Love
18. Hold Tight
19. Wash All Over Me

1-9 REBEL

10-19 HEART

Now, speaking of disjointedness. How exactly does MX have a "concept" when there are extreme genre shifts with dated-ass house tracks like IDSIF on the same album as COVERS like Faz Gostoso, Bitch I'm Loca and then songs like Future. There is definitely less consistency and quality on MX than on Rebel Heart and I’m sick of people trying to pretend like Rebel Heart isn’t the best album to have come out during the Interscope era.

If the record had been like that I would agree with you, it would have made more sense.
But it didn't. 

And then, for my taste, in RH, although I like almost everything (there are a few songs I would have avoided but I like almost all of them), there is perhaps not a single song that makes me say "wow." 
In Madame X I skip half the record but I say "wow." 
90s house is not dated and IDSIF is much more avant-garde than all of today's pop that is now hollow and anti-musical, sonically, compositionally and arrangementally. 

[wtg1987 10,151]

4 hours ago, Rory said:

Now looking forward to getting the American Life - Mixshow Mix EP on April 22 for RSD23! 

Also the nod to God Control makes me want to listen to Madame X again.

Knock yourself out 👍 

the debates on her interscope albums vs Warner still makes me laugh - people get so defensive when someone doesn’t like an album ??

[Blue Jean 15,130]

8 hours ago, deathproof said:

It’s mentioned in the article lol

Babe you know none of us read that long arse article . We are just in here to repeat the same things we’ve been saying for 20 years about  American Life.

[Drownedboy 1,657]

Let´s put this: I adore American life and hate Madame X lol. 

But I think I hate Madame X cause I hate the evolution of Madonna post covid with that last era going on endlessly. The other eras had its lows and ups but she was as great as always for the most part with great tours and Madonna looking wonderfull.

[missberic 763]

1 hour ago, Lorx said:

If the record had been like that I would agree with you, it would have made more sense.
But it didn't. 

And then, for my taste, in RH, although I like almost everything (there are a few songs I would have avoided but I like almost all of them), there is perhaps not a single song that makes me say "wow." 
In Madame X I skip half the record but I say "wow." 
90s house is not dated and IDSIF is much more avant-garde than all of today's pop that is now hollow and anti-musical, sonically, compositionally and arrangementally. 

I agree. And I don't think RH should be labeled as a better album just because it has less vocoder and more convencional melodies.

The thing that bugs me the most is that I find RH to be very reductive, as M herself would say, repeating themes she's already covered before in a non-creative way and with lyrics that try too hard to have an impact that does not fit the 2015 agenda. Madame X has its eye-rolling moments, but is far more experimental and provides a slightly upgraded listening experience in a concise tracklist, even with its highs and lows.

With that being said, comparing Madame X in any way to AL is a stretch.

[Pootz333 2,684]

10 hours ago, deathproof said:

It’s mentioned in the article lol

I'm talking about the way it was going to affect his business as a movie director behind the scenes. That is never talked about. Its always the children/ safety angle. This is the same Hollywood that loudly and proudly booed Michael Moore at the Oscars when he dared to say something against the Iraq war and the Bush administration at the same time all this was happening. But ok, lolz

9 hours ago, tscott said:

If the article didn't tip you off, the fact his wife made a controversial video that endangered their children, him and the "Missus"; I'd think he had every right to put his foot down.  

This sounds too "conspiracy theory" nonsense.  Her record company wouldn't want her record to fail.  Also, she did a lot of promo for American Life.  Not that it helped, but Warner flipped the bill for that, and probably was hoping by getting her out there, performing the crap out of the tracks could turn things around.  Hell, she was even doing radio shows and performing at record shops.  Something she hadn't done since the beginning of her career. 

Once again, we disagree. I just never ever quote you about it. 

 

3 hours ago, Lorx said:

Yes, AL is just on another level than Madame X, without taking anything away from MX, which has good songs and is more inspired than the previous two records. But AL is much more cohesive, with no trashy songs in between.
I would have edited a version where before the end of the video in the audience you see Bush lighting his cigarette with the grenade and then the ending where the grenade goes toward the audience. Because I always loved both scenes.
 

Agreed.

[Blue Jean 15,130]

1 hour ago, missberic said:

I agree. And I don't think RH should be labeled as a better album just because it has less vocoder and more convencional melodies.

The thing that bugs me the most is that I find RH to be very reductive, as M herself would say, repeating themes she's already covered before in a non-creative way and with lyrics that try too hard to have an impact that does not fit the 2015 agenda. Madame X has its eye-rolling moments, but is far more experimental and provides a slightly upgraded listening experience in a concise tracklist, even with its highs and lows.

They are 2 very different albums that both have their good and bad points. Neither are her up with her best though.

 

[MaDöner Kebab 6,866]

I'm usually on the side of "let everyone have an opinion even if it differs from yours" but I just can't with MDNA and MX apologists that constantly shit on Rebel Heart.  You guys know that you are straight up lying but can't admit it cause y'all are pissed she didn't do a sell-out album with Avicii's EDM beats.

Y'all just hate Rebel Heart cause she's the Beyonce of the Interscope era and MDNA and MX are Kelly and Michelle.

There's not a single song on Rebel Heart that is as corny and embarrassing as Supershit, Bidet Song or Turn Up the Radio. No, not even BIM, Holy Water, Illuminati, Unapologetic Bitch or S.E.X. are THAT bad. Literally all of them blow the bottom songs from MDNA out of the water. Neither of those had the ear-piercing vocoder effects that most of the songs on MX needed. Production-wise Kanye served up some of their best and most out there beats that still made them sound like accessible pop songs with a slight edge.

Rebel Heart wouldn't get nearly as much hate had the demo session not leaked. MDNA was hand-me-down songs with barely any involvement from Madonna. MX sounds like a compilation of unfinished demos and there is even less sonic consistency. IDSIF, the song  gays love to praise is just an extended interlude and the verses are lifted from Peaky Blinders. The beat is EXTREMELY dated and doesn't sound fresh. It sounds like an old reject from the early 2000s. God Control's lyrics are a fucking joke and her vocals make it even worse. Whoever made her thing that the vocoder was gonna sound cool or fresh fucking set her up. It ruins nearly all the songs.

[Bfree 5]

Could someone please share the link or an image of Billboard's article questioning US DJ's refusal to play Hung Up?  I've been fascinated with this specific data point within Madonna's then-unmatched  global success ( a Guinness Book of World Records for #1 in most countries) for Hung Up - and USA's stubborn refusal to participate, instead  petulantly crossing their arms and looking away from the dance floor as the world kept asking the DJ to play it again!   

[Blue Jean 15,130]

18 minutes ago, MPowered said:

I'm usually on the side of "let everyone have an opinion even if it differs from yours" but I just can't with MDNA and MX apologists that constantly shit on Rebel Heart.  You guys know that you are straight up lying but can't admit it cause y'all are pissed she didn't do a sell-out album with Avicii's EDM beats.

Y'all just hate Rebel Heart cause she's the Beyonce of the Interscope era and MDNA and MX are Kelly and Michelle.

There's not a single song on Rebel Heart that is as corny and embarrassing as Supershit, Bidet Song or Turn Up the Radio. No, not even BIM, Holy Water, Illuminati, Unapologetic Bitch or S.E.X. are THAT bad. Literally all of them blow the bottom songs from MDNA out of the water. Neither of those had the ear-piercing vocoder effects that most of the songs on MX needed. Production-wise Kanye served up some of their best and most out there beats that still made them sound like accessible pop songs with a slight edge.

Rebel Heart wouldn't get nearly as much hate had the demo session not leaked. MDNA was hand-me-down songs with barely any involvement from Madonna. MX sounds like a compilation of unfinished demos and there is even less sonic consistency. IDSIF, the song  gays love to praise is just an extended interlude and the verses are lifted from Peaky Blinders. The beat is EXTREMELY dated and doesn't sound fresh. It sounds like an old reject from the early 2000s. God Control's lyrics are a fucking joke and her vocals make it even worse. Whoever made her thing that the vocoder was gonna sound cool or fresh fucking set her up. It ruins nearly all the songs.

I don't necessarily agree with all this but i'm cackling   Especially that Destiny's Child analogy and the Peaky Blinders thing.

All 3 albums are hit and miss imo. She has still been making good music but Madonna was never an artist that had fillers on her albums until she left Warner. But yes Rebel Heart had the most potential, had it of been managed properly and the best songs and versions used it would have been a good album.

Madame X has a whole section where it feels like a fantastic, creative work but then it just falls apart about half way through and starts to sound half baked or crammed with things that don't belong.

MDNA has some amazing songs and then some of the worst things she's ever recorded. But it is also tainted by the fact that it was created in a period in pop music that has not aged well. Eg Girl Gone Wild was a common sound and lyrical style then but noone in their right mind would record that song today.

[MaDöner Kebab 6,866]

1 minute ago, Blue Jean said:

I don't necessarily agree with all this but i'm cackling   Especially that Destiny's Child analogy and the Peaky Blinders thing.

I had to get this out.  MDNX propagandist needed to hear/read this.

[kesiak 3,033]

33 minutes ago, MPowered said:

I'm usually on the side of "let everyone have an opinion even if it differs from yours" but I just can't with MDNA and MX apologists that constantly shit on Rebel Heart.  You guys know that you are straight up lying but can't admit it cause y'all are pissed she didn't do a sell-out album with Avicii's EDM beats.

Rebel Heart is the only album in M's career that doesn't feel like an album to me, it's just a VERY long random playlist. There's some truly fantastic song writing there which is sadly let down by hodgepodge production. But each to their own .

[MaDöner Kebab 6,866]

8 minutes ago, kesiak said:

Rebel Heart is the only album in M's career that doesn't feel like an album to me, it's just a VERY long random playlist. There's some truly fantastic song writing there which is sadly let down by hodgepodge production. But each to their own .

And Madame X or MDNA don't sound like random playlists?

 Rebel Heart had more consistency than those two albums. You guys just haven't bothered to listen to it as a dual album. Do it and you will see that it is sonically more cohesive than those other two.

[survivalartist 6,453]

Dooooooo it. Doooooo it.