Debord

Your absolute determination to totally misrepresent what actually happens is almost impressive.

Your absolute determination to totally misrepresent what actually happens is almost impressive.

Yes, that would be exactly the same as some dancers dancing during a show. Christ, you're doing that thing of committing to your bit and working backwards from there, leaving all logic and reason behind. I'm sure this time, the 'Madonna is corrupting the kids!' discourse will prove worthwhile!

It's got nothing to do with 'fandom' cos the arguments you're wheeling out are the EXACT SAME ONES used by bigots to attack drag queens and Pride parades. Do you actually know any 11 year olds? They're a lot savvier than you think. They don't need to be protected from the human body or the notion that sex exists, indeed they are already understanding these things. What matters is that they understand consent, self-respect and the difference between expression and oppression, and between artifice and reality. If you want to worry about children perhaps spend your time supporting orgs which support children who are being abused by their families or family friends, by their trusted adults, by their religious leaders, rather than wringing your hands over an enormously privileged girl who's having the time of her life on stage with her mum.

Very well said. I don’t have the energy to partake in this but here are a few bullet points for everyone to consider:
 The twins have most likely already had the sex talk and are menstruating.
 Sex is not bad
 the naked body is not only for sex
Madonna knows exactly what she is doing
Sex is everywhere in everything already; WAP WAP WAP
Violence is also pervasive in our culture and no one seems to be creating a thread for all the children experiencing war right now. Maybe your fear for the children isn’t genuine and has been force fed to you. 
I was 11 when Erotica came out and started listening to it on repeat. I was 10 when Justify My Love came out and also started watching the Blond Ambition Tour everyday after school. The tour where she masterbates on a bed with “hermaphrodites” and simulated sex with a male dancer within 2 minutes of her setting foot on stage. 
 
i was 12 or 13 watching the orgy scene in the Girlie Show. Her getting it up the ass during Fever. And army dudes grinding during the Beast Within. 

This could be taken from a Q-Anon forum.

This could be taken from a Q-Anon forum.

You should listen to Whitney, who got decades ago what some of M's own fans are apparently struggling with in 2023. 
 
 
In the meantime I'm sure there are some Drag Queen story times you can go complain about.

Yes, that would be exactly the same as some dancers dancing during a show. Christ, you're doing that thing of committing to your bit and working backwards from there, leaving all logic and reason behind. I'm sure this time, the 'Madonna is corrupting the kids!' discourse will prove worthwhile!

It's got nothing to do with 'fandom' cos the arguments you're wheeling out are the EXACT SAME ONES used by bigots to attack drag queens and Pride parades. Do you actually know any 11 year olds? They're a lot savvier than you think. They don't need to be protected from the human body or the notion that sex exists, indeed they are already understanding these things. What matters is that they understand consent, self-respect and the difference between expression and oppression, and between artifice and reality. If you want to worry about children perhaps spend your time supporting orgs which support children who are being abused by their families or family friends, by their trusted adults, by their religious leaders, rather than wringing your hands over an enormously privileged girl who's having the time of her life on stage with her mum.

It's got nothing to do with 'fandom' cos the arguments you're wheeling out are the EXACT SAME ONES used by bigots to attack drag queens and Pride parades. Do you actually know any 11 year olds? They're a lot savvier than you think. They don't need to be protected from the human body or the notion that sex exists, indeed they are already understanding these things. What matters is that they understand consent, self-respect and the difference between expression and oppression, and between artifice and reality. If you want to worry about children perhaps spend your time supporting orgs which support children who are being abused by their families or family friends, by their trusted adults, by their religious leaders, rather than wringing your hands over an enormously privileged girl who's having the time of her life on stage with her mum.

It's got nothing to do with 'fandom' cos the arguments you're wheeling out are the EXACT SAME ONES used by bigots to attack drag queens and Pride parades. Do you actually know any 11 year olds? They're a lot savvier than you think. They don't need to be protected from the human body or the notion that sex exists, indeed they are already understanding these things. What matters is that they understand consent, self-respect and the difference between expression and oppression, and between artifice and reality. If you want to worry about children perhaps spend your time supporting orgs which support children who are being abused by their families or family friends, by their trusted adults, by their religious leaders, rather than wringing your hands over an enormously privileged girl who's having the time of her life on stage with her mum.

It's a kid dancing at her mum's show, surrounded by her family. If folk think it's mortifying that she might see a bit of a man's butt I can only assume you think kids walk around the world with their eyes closed, cos you can see that and more on any given advert or pop video or tv show. Get a grip and take your tired moralising somewhere else.

You're just describing art, though. Literally all art is interpreted by people and great art is interpreted by people differently as time moves on. It is pretty uncontroversial to say that Madonna is an artist and she presents her concerts as pieces of theatre, and this 'oh please stop trying to read meaning into it' just smacks of an attitude that pop music doesn't warrant it, an attitude Madonna more than most dispelled long ago.

It's a kid dancing at her mum's show, surrounded by her family. If folk think it's mortifying that she might see a bit of a man's butt I can only assume you think kids walk around the world with their eyes closed, cos you can see that and more on any given advert or pop video or tv show. Get a grip and take your tired moralising somewhere else.

It's a kid dancing at her mum's show, surrounded by her family. If folk think it's mortifying that she might see a bit of a man's butt I can only assume you think kids walk around the world with their eyes closed, cos you can see that and more on any given advert or pop video or tv show. Get a grip and take your tired moralising somewhere else.

You also have to see it to know what you're scrolling past.

If folk want to obsessively give their views on a woman's behind or catastrophise about her health after watching shit streams, can they at least create dedicated topics so the rest of us don't have to see it? It's so tedious and for most of us this is a very happy week.

She sounded great when I saw her on Saturday. And the overwhelming response I've heard from people who've been is that she sounds great.

It's Betty Freidan - you see her on screen starting the quote a few seconds before. It's from ABC News in 1985.

I'll have a go since I've not seen it anywhere else.
Intro/Nothing Really Matters - an overview of her career, a thank you to the fans and an acknowledgement that she's now at a place of peace and maturity.
Everybody through to Holiday - her early years in New York, both as an artist and as a person with her friends. This ends with AIDS hitting at the end of Holiday which takes us to...
Live To Tell/Like A Prayer/Unholy/Act of Contrition - AIDS wreaking havoc in New York and the world, taking many of her friends and many others. Gay men are trapped inside this nightmare and face a society which thinks they deserve it. Madonna tries to help, not just her friends but by challenging moralism and speaking up for sexual liberation and tolerance. She is a warrior ally, which takes us to...
Erotica through to Vogue - Madonna being transgressive, pushing boundaries, celebrating the underground and the queer community and then...
Human Nature/Crazy for You - the backlash hits, both in Madonna's career and in society which sees a resurgent moralism. Though it's painful and turbulent at the time, Madonna embraces herself from that period, accepting everything she did and that she experienced with love.
Die Another Day through to Don't Cry For Me Argentina - Coming out the other end of the backlash, Madonna keeps going. She is a survivor and keeps going no matter what. A huge part of what enables her to do this is her family, which lays to rest the demons she has always battled regarding her mother's death.
Bedtime Story/Ray of Light/Rain - her embrace of electronic music sees her still pushing forward and breaking boundaries but ultimately takes her back to her roots. She feels the love of her fans again, which brings her peace.
Bitch I'm Madonna/Celebration - ending again with an overview of her career, a celebration of her iconic career, legacy and everyone who's been part of it on the way. But it ends abruptly, because she's not done yet. The future is still unwritten.

Oh yeah! Here's one where you can very clearly see the cap and scarf.

Jesus, having watched the woman metres away from me on Saturday, reading stuff like this is just absolutely mad to me. And 65 is not 'old'!

Jesus, having watched the woman metres away from me on Saturday, reading stuff like this is just absolutely mad to me. And 65 is not 'old'!

She sounded great when I saw her on Saturday. And the overwhelming response I've heard from people who've been is that she sounds great.