Was human nature a message for fans rather than the general public?

[Sultrysully 2,950]

I am just curious on everyone's thoughts on Human Nature.  Was it a message for fans or the general public.  I feel that Madonna could have been upset by the fan's reactions to Erotica, Body of Evidence, and the SEX book. Kinda like Paul's letters in the New Testament, could the intended audience be members of the faith rather than external groups and people?  Maybe it was never meant to be a mainstream message.  I have never thought about it this way before but now i wonder. Thoughts?

[Boombox90 6,075]

Nah, we loved all the SEX stuff!

I am pretty certain she was talking to her critics, mainly non-fans.

[chaosmen1984mk 922]

It may not be politically correct to say it, but if I had been a fan of Madonna from the beginning, I would most likely have been one of those fans who stopped following her due to the excesses she committed during her Erotica stage and the book Sex. I have always said that during this period Madonna went too far and that valuable message of defending women's sexual freedom was lost among so many scandals caused by the book Sex and the Erotica video, to name a couple of examples.
It was a form of communication that was too strong for the time and that is why I can justify the fans who stopped following her, accustomed to her rebellious and sensual image that she had had until then.

As I said, I would have been one of those fans who would have stopped following her in 92 but would have come back regretfully after seeing her more moderate in her Bedtime Stories phase. As for the lyrics of Human Nature, I agree that it is a kind of reproach to those fans who left her in 92, I'm sure that many of them who heard the song for the first time must have felt indirectly alluded to even though the song was not really dedicated to them.

[Tudors 1,545]

It's for the press and the gee pee.

[BLUE JEAN 19,508]

No, it was aimed at the media. Going by sales of the album I guess the response was mixed from fans but most of the horrible comments she was addressing came from the media.

I can’t imagine how brutal the public may have been though if social media existed back then.

[Dita 2,897]

No, I think it’s cathartic for her, as portrayed on the Celebration Tour, but I think she’s felt the cathartic-ness of it every time she’s performed it, which is why it’s a staple. The Sex era aftermath has to have been one of the lowest points of her career in terms of taking a bashing from the public. 

[Angelo 5,942]

Too far for a bunch of pictures…what am I reading???

[Alibaba 1,764]

It most definitely wasn’t aimed at her fans. We didn’t abandon her or demonize her. In fact, we placated her! We all bought the book, the album and saw the movies! If anything, we were blind to some of the critical thinking the general public might have in part been more capable of…Body of Evidence deserved some scrutiny. It was a lousy filmic choice for Madonna, and it was essentially seen as a poor imitation of Basic Instinct, but her fans, and I am very much included in this, insisted it was unfairly dismissed! The decision to release three projects with an emphasis on sex was risky at best, and entirely masochistic. I love Madonna, but as a person capable of independent thought I am also able to see that she brought upon herself much of the abuse and pushback. I do not think it was justified in tone, and it became personal, which is always heinous, but we do all tend to paint a picture of some revolutionary figure with a clear agenda having been unjustly raked over the coals, and this possibly deserves a more nuanced appraisal. I think much of Madonna’s behavior between 1990 and 1994, while always extremely entertaining and occasionally channeled artistically into the unparalleled, was also plagued with immaturity and insecurity. That’s totally fine with me as it gives an underlying sense of vulnerability to her work, but her summarization of those years has been a little contradictory at times…She herself has said she doesn’t really know what she was trying to accomplish and that she provoked for provocation’s sake, but more recently her perspective has been revisionist, painting her choices as having been much more intentionally meaningful. I naturally give her the benefit of the doubt as we all gain perspective with hindsight, and perhaps she has indeed come to a deeper understanding of her motives and her vision, which gives her ownership over the subconscious drive in her work. It will be fascinating to read her more carefully crafted thoughts on this era when she (hopefully) eventually writes an autobiography. 

[VogueMusic 777]

I LIVE for the Madonna of 90-94 (however imperfect it/she was), and Human Nature (which has clearly become a manifesto, of sorts, and almost means more now than it did then).

It's what separates her from every single pop bitch in the game. Ever.

As for Human Nature, I think it was definitely aimed at the critics/GP/media then, but it could certainly be aimed at a certain subset of fans now.

[EgoRod 6,270]

5 hours ago, chaosmen1984mk said:

It may not be politically correct to say it, but if I had been a fan of Madonna from the beginning, I would most likely have been one of those fans who stopped following her due to the excesses she committed during her Erotica stage and the book Sex. I have always said that during this period Madonna went too far and that valuable message of defending women's sexual freedom was lost among so many scandals caused by the book Sex and the Erotica video, to name a couple of examples.
It was a form of communication that was too strong for the time and that is why I can justify the fans who stopped following her, accustomed to her rebellious and sensual image that she had had until then.

As I said, I would have been one of those fans who would have stopped following her in 92 but would have come back regretfully after seeing her more moderate in her Bedtime Stories phase. As for the lyrics of Human Nature, I agree that it is a kind of reproach to those fans who left her in 92, I'm sure that many of them who heard the song for the first time must have felt indirectly alluded to even though the song was not really dedicated to them.

There weren't any scandals. She just released Justify My Love and challenged the puritanical branches of the (mostly US) media. She saw it as a strategic way to draw attention and evolve her character (Dita), setting the stage for the Erotica era.

They wanted to paint her as a Jezebel or a “whore of Babylon,” but there was nothing scandalous about it. She created one project that openly discussed and depicted sex and kinks as healthy, real aspects of life. She talked about safe sex, women’s freedom, and same-sex relationships. This wasn’t a scandal. She wasn’t caught in compromising situations or doing anything illicit.

It’s funny how some people spin it like she was a “Cock Destroyer” of her time, when, in reality, she was simply being unapologetically herself and pushing boundaries.

[Angelo 5,942]

1 hour ago, EgoRod said:

There weren't any scandals. She just released Justify My Love and challenged the puritanical branches of the (mostly US) media. She saw it as a strategic way to draw attention and evolve her character (Dita), setting the stage for the Erotica era.

They wanted to paint her as a Jezebel or a “whore of Babylon,” but there was nothing scandalous about it. She created one project that openly discussed and depicted sex and kinks as healthy, real aspects of life. She talked about safe sex, women’s freedom, and same-sex relationships. This wasn’t a scandal. She wasn’t caught in compromising situations or doing anything illicit.

It’s funny how some people spin it like she was a “Cock Destroyer” of her time, when, in reality, she was simply being unapologetically herself and pushing boundaries.

[Aiwa08 19,290]

10 hours ago, Boombox90 said:

Nah, we loved all the SEX stuff!

I am pretty certain she was talking to her critics, mainly non-fans.

Yes, fans today love Erotica and Sex, but when Erotica was released, I knew at least three (straight) Madonna fans since Like a Virgin who called her all sorts of names and started to hate her. From that point on, they stopped following Madonna.  And I’m talking about a very small town; I can’t even imagine how many early fans did the same worldwide. I felt so alone and misunderstood enjoying that era when everyone seemed to hate Madonna

[EgoRod 6,270]

2 hours ago, Aiwa08 said:

Yes, fans today love Erotica and Sex, but when Erotica was released, I knew at least three (straight) Madonna fans since Like a Virgin who called her all sorts of names and started to hate her. From that point on, they stopped following Madonna.  And I’m talking about a very small town; I can’t even imagine how many early fans did the same worldwide. I felt so alone and misunderstood enjoying that era when everyone seemed to hate Madonna

Not my Mum,

She said that "good for her to show that she can do as she pleases"

[Voguerista 15,050]

I am just so so on the music itself, but imo, the message of the song is superb and meant for everyone no matter who it is or what you believe whether it be on sex, politics, social issues, etc and not repressing or letting anyone stifle you.

“Express yourself don't repress yourself”

Important and so relevant to this day!

Thanks for this reminder and starting this thread! I love reading everyone’s take on it! 

[A. A. Aardvark 5,409]

"Still have my drives and juices."

[Magic Pussy 531]

I think the song could include both critics and critical fans. I particularly love the line “I didn’t know I couldn’t talk about you” which I always interpreted as a message to people who were ok with her pushing buttons until she pushed theirs. I have to say I wasn’t initially a big fan of the Erotica/ SEX book era but it grew on me and I think it was so ahead of its time. I wasn't offended by the book, just the opposite. I was disappointed she wasn’t actually fucking or getting fucked in the pictures. I initially didn’t like the book’s layout or the many filters. Also, I was expecting more of those amazing Vanity Fair pics Steven Meisel shot for the Aug or Sep 1992 cover story just before the SEX book release.

[EgoRod 6,270]

1 hour ago, Magic Pussy said:

I think the song could include both critics and critical fans. I particularly love the line “I didn’t know I couldn’t talk about you” which I always interpreted as a message to people who were ok with her pushing buttons until she pushed theirs. I have to say I wasn’t initially a big fan of the Erotica/ SEX book era but it grew on me and I think it was so ahead of its time. I wasn't offended by the book, just the opposite. I was disappointed she wasn’t actually fucking or getting fucked in the pictures. I initially didn’t like the book’s layout or the many filters. Also, I was expecting more of those amazing Vanity Fair pics Steven Meisel shot for the Aug or Sep 1992 cover story just before the SEX book release.

I think a more refined editing would ruin it. The concept is to look like some vintage fetish magazines collage.

https://vintagefetish.website/

The photocopy type, clashing with the more graphic styling  made it quite unique. It has that metallic cover but then flimsy spiral bound. And there's not real sex , is hyper dramatized and fake like.

The  mylar sleeve like the black plastic bags they used to sell dirty magazines.

I believe the issue is that some audience focused in the sexual imagery rather than the artistic construction of the whole. And that's what it was'nt understood much at the time. I think now with retrospective is more appreciated it for it.

 

[Magic Pussy 531]

Just now, EgoRod said:

I think a more refined editing would ruin it. The concept is to look like some vintage fetish magazines collage.

https://vintagefetish.website/

The photocopy type, clashing with the more graphic styling  made it quite unique. It has that metallic cover but then flimsy spiral bound. And there's not real sex , is hyper dramatized and fake like.

The  mylar sleeve like the black plastic bags they used to sell dirty magazines.

I believe the issue is that some audience focused in the sexual imagery rather than the artistic construction of the whole. And that's what it was'nt understood much at the time. I think not with retrospective is more appreciated it for it.

 

I 100% agree refining the layout would've ruined it; In Oct 1992 I was just annoyed that some of my favorite shots were overlapped by others or tinted. Of course now I love it. IMO a lot of Madonna's work ages well or maybe I/we just catch up with her. I recently shared the book with my 21 yo nephew and we both laughed a lot because her writing is pretty humorous.

[Debord 1,718]

She specifically said that the song was her response to the media, but obviously in the way it addresses misogyny, prurient and judgmental attitudes towards sex and sexuality and the patriarchy, it has a more general meaning too (and you encounter plenty of Madonna fans who have issues in those areas!)

[A. A. Aardvark 5,409]

'Dennis, I'm ovulating' 
 Aug 16, 2024 
https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-when-dennis-rodman-stopped-casino-game-quickie-madonna-she-called-said-dennis-i-m-ovulating 

[PlayPause 3,039]

16 hours ago, Sultrysully said:

I am just curious on everyone's thoughts on Human Nature.  Was it a message for fans or the general public.  I feel that Madonna could have been upset by the fan's reactions to Erotica, Body of Evidence, and the SEX book. Kinda like Paul's letters in the New Testament, could the intended audience be members of the faith rather than external groups and people?  Maybe it was never meant to be a mainstream message.  I have never thought about it this way before but now i wonder. Thoughts?

It was for the haters, no matter where they came from.

The message was pretty straightforward : she wasn't sorry and she made fun of those who blamed her for being a woman aware of her body and her libido, aka the patriarchy and its bigoted or prejudiced supporters.

[deathproof 11,581]

17 hours ago, Boombox90 said:

Nah, we loved all the SEX stuff!

lol

if only that was the case....

[Boombox90 6,075]

10 hours ago, Aiwa08 said:

Yes, fans today love Erotica and Sex, but when Erotica was released, I knew at least three (straight) Madonna fans since Like a Virgin who called her all sorts of names and started to hate her. From that point on, they stopped following Madonna.  And I’m talking about a very small town; I can’t even imagine how many early fans did the same worldwide. I felt so alone and misunderstood enjoying that era when everyone seemed to hate Madonna

Oh, god. I was 14 when Erotica, Sex, etc came out and I couldn’t have loved her more 

[cabbageboy 260]

I was 12 when Erotica etc came out, and my friends were complaining she didn't go far enough "I'll give you love... I'll teach you how to uhhhhhh" instead of going the whole way and saying "fuck"  

I guess we were all hyper hormoned and in puberty at the time!

[chaosmen1984mk 922]

5 hours ago, Boombox90 said:

Oh, god. I was 14 when Erotica, Sex, etc came out and I couldn’t have loved her more 

I was 9 years old when I saw the Erotica video for the first time on television and I remember how traumatizing that moment was. Raised in a conservative society I couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing: people of the same sex kissing, women showing their breasts, people showing their butts, orgies, sadomasochism, Satanism. It practically looked like a pornographic film. It was so shocking to me that it became one of the few memories of my childhood that have lasted through time. It was the first time I met Madonna and it couldn't have been any worse. Because of that video I got the impression that Madonna was an evil, diabolical woman. 

That is why I feel a certain empathy towards those people who decided to ignore or boycott the message that Madonna tried to convey during those years. It was a very abrupt way of seeking a change in the conservative society of that time. Nobody likes to be taken out of their comfort zone in such a violent way. I think that is where Madonna failed, perhaps she thought that being at the top of popularity would allow her to cross certain limits without being harmed, but we all know the rest of the story.