Debord

I have never, ever seen a 'Madonna has been rubbish since Confessions' person thoughtfully think about how her entering her 50s after that impacts on her role in an art form which was always predicated on, and aimed at, youth (something which she's played a huge role in changing). How her age necessarily means she's more 'out of touch' and how if she does make music following current trends, her age means she's presented as 'desperate' etc. Instead it's always just cry laugh emojis and an instant 'lol lmao age is irrelevant lol'.
And 'if another artist released...' is just such a crap criteria to apply. You can say that about most long music careers. The point is that we become familiar with an artist and their work and that rich history feeds into new work, and Madonna's latter-day albums draw very much on her history and add levels which some random artist we don't know simply wouldn't have. That matters.
Ultimately, if folk don't like anything post-Confessions, that's up to them. I just don't get why it's an opinion which a minority feel they need to share so often, so vocally, for such a long time. What's the outcome you're hoping for?

It's precisely cos I hate the standom thing of hurling insults at each other than I always stick to the discussion at hand and try and think about things, hence longer posts than might be typical. Pointing out that ways in which age plays a role in someone's pop career and in how it's interpreted is not 'I can't stand anyone saying they prefer M's music pre-Hard Candy' (which isn't what was said anyway) and I'm sorry, but one second saying we should be 'respectful' and then suggesting it's unreasonable to challenge someone attacking a woman's appearance for no apparent reason is totally wrong-headed to me.
I couldn't care less if someone 'prefers' a certain era of Madonna. That's an incredibly different proposition from banging on about her face or saying she's done nothing decent in 20 years (and as I wrote above, someone can of course believe that all they want - I just question what they're hoping to achieve by stating it in a Madonna forum, particularly when folk with that view tend to state it a lot).

I have never, ever seen a 'Madonna has been rubbish since Confessions' person thoughtfully think about how her entering her 50s after that impacts on her role in an art form which was always predicated on, and aimed at, youth (something which she's played a huge role in changing). How her age necessarily means she's more 'out of touch' and how if she does make music following current trends, her age means she's presented as 'desperate' etc. Instead it's always just cry laugh emojis and an instant 'lol lmao age is irrelevant lol'.
And 'if another artist released...' is just such a crap criteria to apply. You can say that about most long music careers. The point is that we become familiar with an artist and their work and that rich history feeds into new work, and Madonna's latter-day albums draw very much on her history and add levels which some random artist we don't know simply wouldn't have. That matters.
Ultimately, if folk don't like anything post-Confessions, that's up to them. I just don't get why it's an opinion which a minority feel they need to share so often, so vocally, for such a long time. What's the outcome you're hoping for?

It's precisely cos I hate the standom thing of hurling insults at each other than I always stick to the discussion at hand and try and think about things, hence longer posts than might be typical. Pointing out that ways in which age plays a role in someone's pop career and in how it's interpreted is not 'I can't stand anyone saying they prefer M's music pre-Hard Candy' (which isn't what was said anyway) and I'm sorry, but one second saying we should be 'respectful' and then suggesting it's unreasonable to challenge someone attacking a woman's appearance for no apparent reason is totally wrong-headed to me.
I couldn't care less if someone 'prefers' a certain era of Madonna. That's an incredibly different proposition from banging on about her face or saying she's done nothing decent in 20 years (and as I wrote above, someone can of course believe that all they want - I just question what they're hoping to achieve by stating it in a Madonna forum, particularly when folk with that view tend to state it a lot).

It's easy to be dismissive of ageing as a reason for anything but what I never see discussed in these (now endless) takes on Madonna is that obviously an artist ages, but we age too, and the interaction we have with them is impacted by both in heaps of ways. I mean, I personally think that a lot of the gay men in particular who do that whole 'I've been a Madonna fan my whole life but...' thing constantly these days have quite glaring issues with their own ageing and seeing that reflected in Madonna.
What would a Madonna who people think is 'still like the Madonna of 25 years ago' be like? What would she be doing? As others have observed, the total music industry and media landscape has transformed around her. She's not our friend, she's not a family member, she's an artist who clearly still wants to keep pushing ahead and to be well into her 5th decade of being successful and still be being spoken about is a pretty incredible achievement. I always think that her legacy is so vast and her impact so huge that if folk who've been fans don't feel they like her anymore, they should just check out and revel in the work they do love, cos really it's spectacularly easy to not see her Instagram/TikTok posts if they bother you.

Madonna sang plenty of "silly lyrics" in the 90s and the idea the past 15 years has been characterised by "silly lyrics" is just utterly nonsense. And saying age has nothing to do with it then immediately going to a ridiculous representation of her appearance says it all.

It's precisely cos I hate the standom thing of hurling insults at each other than I always stick to the discussion at hand and try and think about things, hence longer posts than might be typical. Pointing out that ways in which age plays a role in someone's pop career and in how it's interpreted is not 'I can't stand anyone saying they prefer M's music pre-Hard Candy' (which isn't what was said anyway) and I'm sorry, but one second saying we should be 'respectful' and then suggesting it's unreasonable to challenge someone attacking a woman's appearance for no apparent reason is totally wrong-headed to me.
I couldn't care less if someone 'prefers' a certain era of Madonna. That's an incredibly different proposition from banging on about her face or saying she's done nothing decent in 20 years (and as I wrote above, someone can of course believe that all they want - I just question what they're hoping to achieve by stating it in a Madonna forum, particularly when folk with that view tend to state it a lot).

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

No, a couple of folk are wondering "what's going on" and everyone else is perfectly normal and enjoying the clips of the show as it approaches its end.

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

The whole point she makes in that speech is that life is ups and downs and that's being human, and she lifts herself up and gets on with it cos she's an artist. Folk responding to it with "omg something is wrong" need to stop being so melodramatic.

Madonna sang plenty of "silly lyrics" in the 90s and the idea the past 15 years has been characterised by "silly lyrics" is just utterly nonsense. And saying age has nothing to do with it then immediately going to a ridiculous representation of her appearance says it all.

It's easy to be dismissive of ageing as a reason for anything but what I never see discussed in these (now endless) takes on Madonna is that obviously an artist ages, but we age too, and the interaction we have with them is impacted by both in heaps of ways. I mean, I personally think that a lot of the gay men in particular who do that whole 'I've been a Madonna fan my whole life but...' thing constantly these days have quite glaring issues with their own ageing and seeing that reflected in Madonna.
What would a Madonna who people think is 'still like the Madonna of 25 years ago' be like? What would she be doing? As others have observed, the total music industry and media landscape has transformed around her. She's not our friend, she's not a family member, she's an artist who clearly still wants to keep pushing ahead and to be well into her 5th decade of being successful and still be being spoken about is a pretty incredible achievement. I always think that her legacy is so vast and her impact so huge that if folk who've been fans don't feel they like her anymore, they should just check out and revel in the work they do love, cos really it's spectacularly easy to not see her Instagram/TikTok posts if they bother you.

Sitting studying videos of her shows and worrying about her "reactions" each night really is not healthy.

Has she? I've seen heaps of collaborators who've only had good things to say about working with her. I've seen the repeated statements that the folk who work on and dance on her tour are the best paid in the business. And as for interactions with fans, I actually met her in 2019 and she was fabulous. Perhaps she is a horrible person but neither you or I have any way of knowing it, and it's a pretty extreme statement to make for no real purpose and very swiftly just becomes that self-aggrandising 'oh I'm an honest fan who tells it like it is, not a loon stan!' thing that has very little to do with the artist whatsoever. 
The folk who were there who've posted seem to have overwhelmingly had a great time and the one review from a Miami newspaper I've seen so far was very positive. This will be forgotten about by everyone except us hardcore stans, akin to when the London Palladium dropped its curtain.

Sitting studying videos of her shows and worrying about her "reactions" each night really is not healthy.

Sitting studying videos of her shows and worrying about her "reactions" each night really is not healthy.

Has she? I've seen heaps of collaborators who've only had good things to say about working with her. I've seen the repeated statements that the folk who work on and dance on her tour are the best paid in the business. And as for interactions with fans, I actually met her in 2019 and she was fabulous. Perhaps she is a horrible person but neither you or I have any way of knowing it, and it's a pretty extreme statement to make for no real purpose and very swiftly just becomes that self-aggrandising 'oh I'm an honest fan who tells it like it is, not a loon stan!' thing that has very little to do with the artist whatsoever. 
The folk who were there who've posted seem to have overwhelmingly had a great time and the one review from a Miami newspaper I've seen so far was very positive. This will be forgotten about by everyone except us hardcore stans, akin to when the London Palladium dropped its curtain.

Sitting studying videos of her shows and worrying about her "reactions" each night really is not healthy.

Whether it's said publicly is one thing but it's not uncommon for artists to want AC off or turned down. Aretha Franklin was notorious for it.